Beethoven: Sonata 23 (Appassionata)
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Posts in the piano forum about this piece by Beethoven:
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I've just recorded Rachmaninoff - Prelude in G Sharp Minor with my new mic on the recently tuned piano at my parents'. In addition, I recorded some snipplets of Appassionata and Chopin Ballad #4 and so I am curious about whether you think that I've improved my playing since my concert I gave in Spring 2007 (see http://www.youtube.com/user/hummelalkan).
(Please forgive me the occasional mistakes and the background noise)
Thank you and all the best,
Hummel |
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Hello folks
I am a big admirer of the works of Beethoven. In english I can't describe exactly, why I admire him, but I try it anyway: His music is for me without any doubt the richest and most intensive music in the colourful universe of classical music. Beethoven was able, to put in every of his pieces an immense content of emotions, thoughts and always a new facette of his own development. No other composer touchs me in such a way as Beethoven do.
So far. Now I thought recently about my "favorite Beethove-piece" and I remarked, that I am not able to define and explain my perceptions and so I decided to ask in this forum for a little help to free my mind of the fogs of emotion and to come closer to a deeper understanding of his works. So I call out for every conoisseur and lover of Beethovens (piano) works to tell me his understanding of his "favourite" piece. And when I say "favourite" I do not mean this kind of "favourite" which is used during talking about colours or animals ;)
One of the pieces which fascinates me the most is Opus 57 Piano Sonata No. 23 "Appassionata", in german "die Leidenschaftliche". But how I mentioned: I could not explain why!!
I would be very grateful if somebody wants to show me his way of understanding Beethoven :D
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Does anyone have any experience with the ending of this Sonata where the presto starts. I am using the edition edited by Arthur Schnabel. The tempo calls for half note equals 104. There are several instances where you must twist your fourth finger over your fifth and then sub the third finger for the fifth on the way back down. The 16TH notes would be this pattern going up " C F Ab C Db using the fingers 1 2 3 5 4 and then the notes going down are C Bb Ab Bb Ab G F using the fingers 3 2 1 4 3 2 1. I can play this quite well up to half note equals 90, but when I try to bring this passage up to tempo there is a distinct weakness in this passage at the top, the legato gets choppy and the forte gets uneven.
My teacher things im looking for something that im not ready for. My hands are still very small and he thinks I should leave the tempo where it is and just wait another two years until im 14 and the problem will take care of itself.
I was just wondering if anyone could suggest some other fingering , or any specail exercises where the fourth finger must twist over the fifth.
Thanks, Kelly
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Someone posted this and I let it go.. but it's been mentioned here twice now, so I have to say something as I feel somewhat knowledgeable on the subject.
This piece was written between 1804-1805. Not that the year is always a definitive factor in the era of a piece but it is in Sonata form. More importantly it follows classical sonata form as it was in that day. It clearly has the defining factor of classical repertoire-[b][u]The Tonic versus Dominant[/u][/b] feud and in this case a minor tonic versus its relative major. The sonata hits this Ab major as a pedal point in m. 90 as a pedal. This was the basis of pretty much all sonatas up to that point. (T vs dom, or tonic vs rel major) The sonata ends in its home key (typical) during the recap. as both themes in the exposition are repeated in the home key. (Now Beethoven does bend the rules a bit I know)
As far as the harmonies go nothing new here.
Virtuosic-somewhat yes for the time but Mozart had plenty difficult stuff as well.
This piece is not based on a poem or a ballad or what not typical of the romantic era, so why are people posting it as Romantic? Doctorate students, teachers, or someone knowledgable on the subject please enlighten me.. :) |
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ok. this is not performance related (as i digitally speeded this up so icould see what it sounded like)
now, my question is from something i've been pondering. the trills in opus 47 do not sound bad when paired with the eighth note appoggiaturas instead of a higher trill. take a listen. tell me if it apostasy or if it sounds kinda good. i start the trill on the beat at measure 11 - and with an eighth note on the appoggiatura'd note elsewhere.
i can play this piece 100% faster, i believe, this way later on. in measure 23 - i would play the appogiatura as a sixteenth note instead of an eighth and and just make it C Db all the way.
try it and it eliminates a lot of awkward passages. the only thing is - that the consistency of the the idea of measure 11 (taking the top note instead of bottom auxillary -appogiatura) compared to measures 3 and 7 do not 'match up.' 11 having the top note of the final turn in the trill - the way it is normally played.
what bothers me is that i do not like the jump from the auxillary note TO the highest note of the trill and then trilling down. in any case i prefer starting on the main note. i will play it the second way that i mean. using the eighth on the beat of beat 7 and then trilling upwards D-natural to E-natural. |
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Hi everybody!
I recently gave a recital where I played Beethoven Appassionata Mov. 1, Chopin Ballade No. 1 and No. 4 and Liszt La campanella as an encore. I put the first half on youtube (the second half is coming later):
Appassionata - Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-uyl7ws3vw
Appassionata - Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUEoMSvk1kk
Ballade No. 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoa3T5Pj5pU
I'm curious what you think about it. Oh, and please forgive me for the occasional mistakes! |
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| Which are the hardest sections? I'm going to start learning thing piece and want to start with the most difficult sections first. Thanks. |
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Recording of me practice this morning
Any comment / advice welcome
Thanks,
Faj
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What are the most powerful renditions anyone has heard of this crucial section to the Appassionata Sonata?
Without doubt, the most powerful (and certainly the fastest) I have heard is Emil Gilels account.
Other particular codas that come to mind include Sviatoslav Richter's various live accounts and Rubinstein's studio recording.
Personally, when it comes to this coda, I think the faster the better (Perhaps just a happy coincidence that it is Gilels!) and the only one who can pull off the slow approach successfully is Claudio Arrau. ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdACFlwKpvY[/url])
Incidentally, Arrau does actually go a bit mental in a live recording I have, and I've attached it at the bottom. He really goes hell for leather into it, and nearly f***s it up, but actually pulls it off.
[b]
So does anyone know of other recordings that really take the Presto indication to heart?[/b]
Thanks
Theodopolis |
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i got trouble with the third movement. Its always, when there is the theme played in the right hand, and then the left hand playes the same (or nearly the same) but just a little timeshifted, just a little later... this comes up three time in that piece.
my problem there is, that my right hand starts playing faster than the left hand... i kinda loose control of what i am exactly playing.
how should i practice those parts. so that the two hands play the notes they shoul play at the right time ? Hope you know what i mean ;)
the parts are no problem hands seperated, its just when putting the hands together i cant play it proper at speed...
thanks for your replies
Fred |
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