which order is best to learn chopin and liszt etudes?

[stevie]

it is a longterm dream of mine to tackle these complete sets, the chopin op10 + op25, and the liszt trancendental etudes.

which order is the most efficient in learning them all?

and generall..any other advice for undertaking a project like this?

[chromatickler]

you may begin by asking yourself the obvious question:

"DO I HAVE TALENT?"

[Mayla]

it is a longterm dream of mine to tackle these complete sets, the chopin op10 + op25, and the liszt trancendental etudes.

which order is the most efficient in learning them all?

and generall..any other advice for undertaking a project like this?

Hi stevie,

Well, I have some dreams, or rather *GOALS*, that are quite similar to yours.  I have provided at the bottom of my message, a link that gives information on order of difficulty for the Chopin etudes, and that may give you a platform to structure your thoughts on this (I don't have anything for the Liszt). 

Now, there are a couple things I would just like to add to this subject as far as *efficiency* is concerned.  I have found for myself, anyway, that it is indeed possible for me to keep myself on a very steady path, and there are certain aspects of my learning that need this and are dealt with in this way.  I also find that because of the sheer quantity as well as quality of stuff I want to know, my thought at times has a difficult time settling on something in particular without wanting to be already learning something new.  This may not be the case with you exactly, however, I am guessing that you can relate to at least part of what I am saying.

I need an anchor, as well as an enormous panoply of seemingly random (it will all serve a purpose and "come together" later) learning happening all around me (giving my thought lots of stimulation and forward moving activity).   Because of this, there are a couple of things I have realized.  My most efficient path (right now) involves two seemingly opposite approaches which I employ simultaneously: 

1.  Making lists, setting specific goals, strategies to learn,  planning recitals etc.  Picking core pieces (5-10 pieces, perhaps) that I set out to learn.  These core pieces along with a strategy to learn them and a goal for their completion serves as an anchor for me and my thought.  I am also interested in performance, so I like to plan these core pieces with a performance in mind.  If I don't have this, I start feeling as though I am floating aimlessly and my learning becomes less productive as far as I can perceive it, my wayward thoughts creating their own obstacle.

2.  I become something like a Baleen Whale.   Just open up wide (the whales don't actually do exactly that, but you know) and start filtering.   Working out chunks of several and *any* different pieces (pieces that I have in my longterm goal list, but are not necessarily in my current core selections), as pertinent opportunities arise, and then do not fuss over it at all.  For example, I want to learn all of the Rachmaninov Preludes (as well as over a thousand other pieces).  I will take opportunities to work out something about any portion of the sets and pieces as it arises, like the fingering for a certain figure and what-not.  I give it sincere thought, write it in the score, and then that chunk is done and I mentally let it go, knowing I have that piece of information when I get back to it.  Again, I will do this with *anything* pertinent to my overall goals as the opportunity arises.   (it is good to be actively seeking these opportunities as well).

Do you teach ?  If you do, you know that teaching forces you to think through thoroughly what it is you need to do to accomplish a certain challenge, and your own perception on pieces or chunks of pieces becomes clarified.


You may enjoy and find useful this thread here on digesting information :
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7171.msg71496.html#msg71496


And here are the Chopin etudes :

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3197.msg28098.html#msg28098
(Grades for all Chopin’s etudes and nocturnes)



Mayla

[stevie]

thanks maybe, i have similar ideas to you

the obvious oder to do them in would be from easiest to hardest...but is that really the best way?

some etudes are easier to memorise than others, like the op25/12(which i already have under my belt) and the op10 no1(which im working on), but these are actually 2 of the harder etudes to play...
my primary goal is to get all the notes down, and over years perfect the technique and performance standard of them.

also, some of the etudes are obviously best learnt hands together from the start, wheras others, maybe especially op10no12, op25no6 and 11, really have to be worked on HS for a while because one hand does the primary 'workload'.

so sometimes it seems, the easiest to hardest route isnt always the best..or is it...

[prometheus]

Do you really want to learn ALL Chopin and Liszt etudes? And is this even possible?

I guess make a list of the ones you like most. And learn those first. If it is a rather large list then this question is justified. Maybe start with the hardest one you can realisticly learn. Then do the easy ones along the way. Then you can review doing the ones that are really hard.

[Mayla]

thanks maybe, i have similar ideas to you

the obvious oder to do them in would be from easiest to hardest...but is that really the best way?

some etudes are easier to memorise than others, like the op25/12(which i already have under my belt) and the op10 no1(which im working on), but these are actually 2 of the harder etudes to play...
my primary goal is to get all the notes down, and over years perfect the technique and performance standard of them.

also, some of the etudes are obviously best learnt hands together from the start, wheras others, maybe especially op10no12, op25no6 and 11, really have to be worked on HS for a while because one hand does the primary 'workload'.

so sometimes it seems, the easiest to hardest route isnt always the best..or is it...

Well, I guess that's my point.  First, probably NOTHING is ALWAYS the "best" route (as *whynot* has helped me to see).  I think what you just described is important, as far as them being able to fit into categories and so on.  Personally, I do like to try to take a whole set of pieces and work from the the biggest impression to the smallest.  I am "currently" doing this with the Goldbergs and the Inventions.  Grouping the ones together in the largest categories I can, then breaking it down from there.

I think that, *inspiration* plays an important role in this.  With a huge amount of music as your goal, you don't have to be inspired about every single piece at once.  You can even pick through them and find the ones that you are most enthralled with and put those into your core group.  

As far as easiest to most difficult, that would depend on your current ability, basically, what dividends you are receiving from the work that you are putting in.  If with one piece you are not acheiving a desired rate of learning, there may be a need to work from easier pieces up to whatever else you are inspired about.  With the Chopin and Liszt etudes, there is not much room to spare as far as difficulty levels within the sets, so working up to a specific one would probably involve a piece from a different composer or different set of the same composer's music (hopefully also in your longterm plan) or even many, many hours of Hanon and Czerny --JUST JOKING  ... he he. 

But if you know you can achieve any of them that you decide to work on in an amount of time that is manageable to your mind, then it seems all that would matter is your own desire for which one at which time.  No matter what, in my opinion, at least musically if not technically, every piece you learn helps you with the next.  So really, how can you lose ?

But, now you are inspiring me to categorize these... he he... let's race 


Mayla

[stevie]

yes i really do, they are amazing pieces of music, every single one.

i adore every liszt TE, and even my least favourite - the no1 - is very nice.

same with the chopin etudes, i love them all, and they develop practically every major piano technique, at least in the right hand...for the left i might have to do some of the godowsky versions

[Waldszenen]

Learn the Chopin Etudes in order.