Chopin etude op25 no1 and the technique

[felia]

Dear Friends,

just a discussion here. I just learn CHopin etudes op25 no1 a few months ago. with a new teacher. at first i treat this piece as a technical piece, with certain technique requirement. After practice a few motnhs, i discover that my touch become wamrer and rounder, and of course deeper. In the process of learning, my teacher stress on the wrist relaxation. She didn't tell me the result of practice this piece, but since then..wow~ :oreally amazing.My question is, doeas this piece actualy composed to deepen the touch of someone..or?is this because of the approach of my teacher?
The result is obvious, almost everyone notice the changes of my touch recently.
I mean, maybe my question is a bit silly, but really like to know the reality behind it.After all this etude is not a magic..

Luv
Felia

[claudio]

sorry to bring this thread up again. don't know if it has ever been answered. unfortunately my search function does not seem to work here....

i have a similar question. i have a new teacher and she told me recently to look into this piece as she observed that i tend to get tense wrists when playing. actually she observed some mozart i played for here and wanted to explain to me how certain phrasings need to have especially relaxed wrists (that you move roundly / simply / relaxed over a series of tones).

point is, i cannot explain what she ment because i did not understand this. how am i to relax my hand when playing? deep mystery, especially when you have to cover whole octaves or only arpeggios?

anybody in this forum that could shed some light on this?

thanx, claudio

[gruffalo]

the way i accquired the loosness in the wrists when learning this piece, was to move my lower arms in exaggerated large circles. Keep the exaggerated circles for a long time whilst you learn this piece. another way to practice it is to play the outer notes in time, but the inner notes in a rapid motion and do this dry (without pedal). lots of slow practice, practice in chords. the wide circles deals with the loosness in the wrists the most.

gruff

[ted]

I agree with Gruffalo. The musical flow of the piece is governed by the outside notes in both hands - that is essential to the effect, it seems to me. Exactly how all the little notes are played admits of considerable variation depending on the size and shape of the hand and the desired result.

[the_duck]

i had a different (and i imagine unique) experience with this piece. i got it to performance standard (and did in fact play it in a concert without a hitch), but i still felt that i had somehow not fully acquired the necessary technique for the piece, because although i could play it i could not do so without tension. maybe it's not that unusual, but if i were to play it 2 or 3 times in succession my hands would start to seize up.

[claudio]

thanks everybody for your replies. i am not very worried about performing this piece. i am 35 and playing the piano since 2 to 3 years. might be some more months  before i get to the necessary level.

i mostly worried about this wrist-relaxation issue. i am sure it is very important because i can feel what she means but so far, the stuff that i learned did not involve too wide-spread cords or runs (e.g. bach inventions, schubert valses, etc.). 

but now my new teacher told me that one needs to relax even in small movements and from here on we got to a larger discussion of this issue and ended up with the study of two bars of chopin.

i am just affraid that i am too old to learn how to relax.    any ideas?

[zheer]

i am just affraid that i am too old to learn how to relax.    any ideas?

  The word freely is more accurate than relaxed, simply because to be completly relaxed one should be in bed and sleeping. However to play freely implies no holding back, some tension is in our body no matter what we are doing.
     Think one note at a time, in this etude both the LH and RH are playing one note at a time, therefore when the other fingers are not active, keep them totally free. Start very slowly feel how it is possible to play one not with one finger without the aid of the other fingers, at a slow tempo this is easy but not at a fast tempo. At first this may feel clumbzy, as though you have no control, but that is far from the truth, its a little like learning to walk without tensing your face or your arms.
   Am not sure if i've explained myself well, but thats all i know, am also an amature pianist.Good luck.

[gruffalo]

but if i were to play it 2 or 3 times in succession my hands would start to seize up.

this is why i kept the exaggerated circular motion for a long time, until i felt that i could let go of it. even so, i still play through in this way, slow and fast with large circles, to this day. it is easy to lose the technique through uncontrolled practice, so you must be careful to strip the piece down again every so often. i made the mistake of playing this piece over and over again to people at performance speed, without practicing at home slowly or using proper practice methods. then i started to get back pains and tension in the wrists. so i started again from scratch.

[cloches_de_geneve]

It's good to play op. 25/1 together with op. 10/11 in my view. Both are advanced exercises is wrist relaxation, though in different ways. 10/11 will help master 25/1, and vice versa.

[ekirth]

the way i accquired the loosness in the wrists when learning this piece, was to move my lower arms in exaggerated large circles. Keep the exaggerated circles for a long time whilst you learn this piece. another way to practice it is to play the outer notes in time, but the inner notes in a rapid motion and do this dry (without pedal). lots of slow practice, practice in chords. the wide circles deals with the loosness in the wrists the most.

Same.    This was my first Chopin etude, and it gave me the most trouble I've ever had with a piece, partially because my wrists would tense up, and partially because I didn't control my pinky finger as well when playing the top notes. So it helped a lot in the end.

Incidentally, I also practice Chopin's black key etude (dunno the op. number) in a similar fashion--keeping the wrist very loose with really slow practice.