need a plan to learn this Invention

[shoshin]

I was going to try Bernhard's method of note dropping for invention 8. One question is I learn the left hand and right hand parts separate, but how many measures do I learn them before I blend them...the whole thing?! or just a section? and how big of a section would it be?

Thanks in advance!

[Mayla]

Well, I will let Bernhard speak on behalf of Bernhard, but after having studied his posts I am sure there will be some evident influences in my reply.  However, I will describe what I feel is now *my* (he he) general plan is for all piano works, and then, specifically counterpoint works.

When planning how to chunk out any piece of music, I generally strive at working whole phrases as a "chunk" that will fit within one 20 minute session, but I may surpass this one phrase within 20 minutes.  Therefore, in planning my work for each session, I will list more phrases beyond that one just in case I need them (and then make a note in a little journal about what I accomplished).   Also, for each phrase, I will likely divide them while learning them but the entire thing will not take me more than 20 minutes.

My goals for accomplishing a section go as follows :

1st session :  7 times, no mistakes (at the earliest repetition possible, I am playing from memory, and there on out).  Once I accomplish this, I leave the section.

2nd session (next day) :  Reminder with music if needed, as many from memory as possible, aiming at 7 perfect repetitions and then leave the section.

Following sessions (following days) : Keep with 7 reps until I know the section from memory from the very start, without needing reminders from the score.

Once I do not need reminders from the score and I have the section memorized, I drop to 3 perfect repetitions from memory and begin linking sections where I can.

I think how big of a section a person chooses to work on in a 20 minute session is completely individual and subjective.  It depends on what the indivdual thinks defines a feeling of "success".  For me, if I cannot accomplish the above goals within a 20 minute session, I feel the piece is too difficult for me and I would be better off working on easier pieces (to build up to the more difficult -- for me -- ones).

For counterpoint, I follow all of the same practice guidelines as I have posted above, however, I have some specific guidelines for counterpoint.   My order of learning goes as follows :

1.  Individual voice(s) -- singing as I play (and learning the middle voice(s) first if more than 2 voice parts)

2.  Individual Hands -- singing one of the voices

3.  Alternating voices -- playing both and singing one and then playing one and singing the other (esp for more than 2 voice parts)

4.  Everything together

I accomplish learning these goals, following the same repetition guidelines that I use for any piece of music (as stated above).

My general consensus is to indeed learn the entire piece in individual voices before I start putting them together.  I have decided this based on issues of time and what I feel is most efficient for me, however, opinions will vary.

Hope this helps,
Mayla

[shoshin]

Thanks that was a really good post I'm going to have to re-read it a few times and let it sink in.

Right now I have just started Invention 8. I have obtained a Glenn Gould recording of it that I'm listening too.

Now I'm on the first 3 measures of of the piece with my Right hand. I'm going to commit it to memory and play it until it sounds perfect--better than Glenn Gould could do right because he's not any good? But  once I have mastered these initial 3 bars which are probably the easiest in the piece do I:

A) keep going with the Right hand and learn more measures
B) learn the Left hand of the 3 measures and then combine them using Bernhard's patented note dropping(TM) system

Thanks

Shoshin -- literally translated: Beginner's Mind(in the beginner's mind there are many possibilities...in the expert's mind there are few. One must never forget their shoshin)

[Mayla]

I'm going to commit it to memory and play it until it sounds perfect--better than Glenn Gould could do right because he's not any good?

hmmmm... this is a funny comment to me.  I should have known that the comment I made earlier (remember ? about how I used to aim at wanting to be "the best") would come back to bite me  .  Anyway, no, in my opinion this should not be the actual goal.  What would be the point, anyway ?   The goal is to be able to play it as you conceptualize it.  Period.

But  once I have mastered these initial 3 bars which are probably the easiest in the piece do I:

A) keep going with the Right hand and learn more measures
B) learn the Left hand of the 3 measures and then combine them using Bernhard's patented note dropping(TM) system

Thanks

Well, I will quote myself from above :

My general consensus is to indeed learn the entire piece in individual voices before I start putting them together.  I have decided this based on issues of time and what I feel is most efficient for me, however, opinions will vary.

Hope this helps,
Mayla

Does this answer your question ?  Anyway, I would have to do a little more reading to even know what is Bernhard's "patented" note-dropping system  .  Of course, if you are waiting for Bernhard to answer you and tell you what to do, you could always read through some of his posts and gather that info, too.  Try an advanced search under "invention no 8" and "bernhard" and take a gander.

Mayla