Who is the most talented young pianist?

[houseofblackleaves]

If this is your view, then you are entitled to it - however, if you refuse to consider the views of others on the subject, I think it to be a great pity.  You don't think this argument matters - yet I think it does.

My view is not the same as yours.  I think that it is a great problem that there is evidently present in the classical music community a racial bias against Asian musicians (as can be witnessed in this very thread).  I repeat - it is only when an Asian musician delivers an uninspired performance that their race is even considered.  When a caucasian musician delivers a similarly uninspired performance, their race will never even come to mind.  The problem is more apparent when viewed in reverse.  It is a commonly held view that Asian musicians are more prone to delivering uninspiring performances.  Yet why is this so, when I hear countless performances by pianists of other ethnicities which leave me similarly unmoved?  Note that this point has not been addressed by anybody in this thread - and this is, I suspect, because it is correct.

And why, may I ask, do you draw a relationship between "ego-enhanced self-esteem" and becoming a lawyer?

Quite apart from your condescending tone and the glaring hypocrisy of your second sentence, it is "observations" like this which I again take issue with - I would be fascinated to see what you have observed which have led to the conclusion that pianists brought up from birth in western culture and positively exposed to classical music from young play the most "musically".  Don't get me wrong - I am not attempting to defend myself as a musician, because though I may be ethnically Asian, I have been brought up in a Western culture from birth, so this is not a case of self-defence.  I object to the principle that such generalisations are drawn in the first place.  Take Yundi Li, who was raised in Eastern culture, yet whose "musicality" is applauded the world over, and contrast him with the countless pianists raised in Western cultures whose performances are yawn-inducing.  Why can generalisations of this nature not be simply avoided entirely?  I further take issue with your intimating that Asians are "behind" Westerners in classical music due simply to their having "discovered" it relatively recently. 

And, incidentally, if I'm "shocking the ladies" in this thread, then I'd rather have nothing to do with ladies like that. 

But anyway.

The reason I am making so many posts in this thread is because this is something that is important to me - the apparent racial bias against Asians in classical music.  If this is not important to you, then continue on with your acceptance of racial bias and prejudice.  I would hope that most people here would object to such bias out of principle alone, but then again, perhaps that is too much to ask.  If such prejudice does not bother you, then I think it is a shame.

Why not evaluate pianists as pianists without bringing race, culture or any other non-pianistic factor into the picture at all?  Why not listen to a pianist as a pianist, and not a "black pianist" or a "white pianist raised in an eastern culture" or vice versa?  I would hope for that to be not too much to ask. 

Hopefully, having made my point explicit, I can leave this thread behind.  Those of you who know me know that I do not post often; the fact that this thread has contained so many of my responses should therefore be a hint. 

Racism will never stop.  I accepted that in grade school.  Racists are the kind of people who don't neccisarily... how should I put it,  "change."

I'm not saying that they can't, I mean... it's inevitable for people to change over time.  And I never said that this isn't an issue- it's one that all asians western, eastern, wherever else (including myself) have had to deal with for as long as there has been diversity in the world.  I just think that it's not our place (in a piano forum) to be debating these issues.

I don't think that this issue should go on being ignored, no.  But I definatly think that we shouldn't get ourselves all worked up about it.  Reacting and debating this with "them" is no use, because they'll stick to their anal little "ideal" and continue to try and justify themselves.  Yes, it is ridiculous.  But somtimes, the fight isn't worth being had.

Somtimes you need to look at the big picture as a whole and ask yourself if the fight is really worth having.  If this is, I mean, if this REALLY is worth fighting about on a piano forum with a person who most likely won't ever change his/her mind - and you will never MEET eachother? - then go ahead.

I will continue to deal with this issue how I deal with this issue.  You will continue how you see fit.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether theoretically their dead wrong or not.  Not everyone can share the same opinion, as we all know.  And this issue will never be "solved" unless every racist point of veiw is annihilated, or at least disregarded.  We all know that isn't going to happen.

Solve it for yourself.  Not for the world.  Life is unfair, we all know that too.  This is a personal issue that everyone feels on differently.

I also know that this stupid argument won't stop here.

[airasia]

^I wholeheartedly disagree and I believe that is a dangerous state of mind.  You might be right that racism will probably never fully end, but you're saying because of that there's no point in fighting it?  You're saying change can't happen if you fight injustices? If all minorities were like you we would still have segregation, or even slavery.  Think about how much has changed in the past 50 years alone through standing up against racism and prejudices (women and gays too) in general.

[houseofblackleaves]

I know... I'm not ignoring it.

I'm just saying that posting it to eachother on a forum isn't helping.  Maybe discussing somthing like this in person respectivly would do, but not this.

[jakev2.0]

Scriabin? Undoubtedly wikid.

[etudes]

Ingolf Wunder,Yu Kosuge,Wen Yu Shen,Egor Levitt,Herbert Schuch

[fingersflying]

Ingolf Wunder,Yu Kosuge,Wen Yu Shen,Egor Levitt,Herbert Schuch

I only know Wunder and Shen from your list. do u have any recordings or video of others?

[moi_not_toi]

"Oriental" is a derogatory term.

My a** it  is.
I'm oriental.
I don't care about the racist comments.
People will be people.

This s*** about "I am an African - American, I'm not black!" has got to stop. I'm sorry, people, but according to the color spectrum, You're darker than everyone else. When it comes to skin, we grade on a curve, therefore you are black, whites are white, and orientals, YES ORIENTALS, are so called "yellow".

Now, calling someone yellow doesn't always have to be derogatory.

If Oriental and Black are derogatory terms, then why are white people called white? Why aren't they called European-Americans?

[moi_not_toi]

^I wholeheartedly disagree and I believe that is a dangerous state of mind.  You might be right that racism will probably never fully end, but you're saying because of that there's no point in fighting it?  You're saying change can't happen if you fight injustices? If all minorities were like you we would still have segregation, or even slavery.  Think about how much has changed in the past 50 years alone through standing up against racism and prejudices (women and gays too) in general.

What makes you think that we DON"T have segregation, my asian-american brother?
Just because we don't have signs to prove it (No asians allowed) doesn't mean that it isn't still there.

At school there is the Popular White people (including black people that act white, aka Oreos) the Popular Black people (including the white people that act black, aka wiggers) and the Hispanics (all by themselves). Does this sound framiliar? Whites don't hang with blacks usually, unless they're both in the Smart, Misfit, or Alternative groups.

Anyone that thinks that we don't still have segregation is dumb. It's self enforced. We don't need police to do it for us.

Have you ever wondered why you rarely ever see an equal amount of blacks, whites, hispanics, and asians in a church??? Because there are what they call Black churches, and Hispanic churches, and Asian churches, and White churches.

Have you ever wondered why you don't find white people in the ghetto?
Have you ever wondered why there is still a Chinatown?
Have you ever wondered why they still call it a White or Black Neighborhood?

We seperate ourselves.
Whites are more comfortable around whites, unless they were raised with blacks.
Blacks are more comfortable with blacks, unless they were raised with whites.
Not to be racist, but most hispanics aren't comfortable with anyone because they don't speak their language!!!!!

[airasia]

What makes you think that we DON"T have segregation, my asian-american brother?
Just because we don't have signs to prove it (No asians allowed) doesn't mean that it isn't still there.

I'm with you for most of your post, but when I said "segregation," I literally meant segregation, the law, which is not in effect anymore.  Also, don't tell me it hasn't gotten better in the past 50 years.  You're saying there's no people of different color OR different cultures hanging out together these days?  That's just not true.  It is true though, that it is in the back of many peoples' minds to hang out with people who talk and look like themselves, but that's a significantly smaller amount of people now than 50 years ago.  Especially in places like New York City if you've ever been there, or most colleges. 

Also, I don't find the word "oriental" to be offensive either, but the people that use the word are usually out of touch with TODAY'S world.  And I don't know a single black person who takes offense to the word "black."  In fact, most black people I know use the word "nigga" casually.  It's just white people who try to be overly political correct that think you should only say "african-american."

[quasimodo]

I know... I'm not ignoring it.

I'm just saying that posting it to eachother on a forum isn't helping.  Maybe discussing somthing like this in person respectivly would do, but not this.

It's not really about changing the mind of the other camp. It's about giving a different speech to the neutral people who read the forum.

[liszt-essence]

To all involved in the 'generalisation' discussion,



You may generalise, as long as you realise that under no circumstance must you apply your generalisation to a unique individual that you may see, hear or meet in person.

Thats my point.

[dnephi]

I am.

[/joke]

[hayasaka]

STOP INSULTING ASIAN.

[opus10no2]

Ehshahn insawtdemself two mach enewhey.