Who is the most talented young pianist?

[baron_von_heimlich]

I heard Joyce Yang perform a concert, and it was one of the best I ever saw.  My vote goes to her!

And the main reason why there are more young Asian pianists today, is because Asia has been solidly grounded in Western Classical Music  now, and the fact that there are like 2 billion Asians. 

Let's compare China(An Asian country) and the USA.

China = 1.3 billion people
USA = .3 billion people

Since piano is big in both China and the USA, statistically China should produce about 4.3 times as many young pianists as the USA.  And China is only one Asian country, there are many others like Japan and Korea where piano is big now.

[houseofblackleaves]

"There are only three kinds of pianists: Jewish pianists, gay pianists, and bad pianists."

And Horowitz didn't have to feel bad about saying that.

However, I must dissagree with the "musicality" statement.  Sure, tradition and whatnot do play a gigantic role.  Buit once again- it's personal.  If one is brought up Jewish and plays an instrument, doesn't mean that that particular person has outstanding musicality.  And vice versa...

And yes.  Asians can "feel" the blues, it's just the lack of interest and importance in society that makes it "generally" seem like it's the lesser focus of music.  And no, we can't rap either.   Then again... RAP itself is a "Retarted Attempt at Poetry" that isn't music anyways, so HA.

It depends on the person.  And PLEASE don't generalize all asians to play like "Bang Bang," because that is the ultimate extreme of "no-musicality" in all piano playing.  I'm serious. 

[airasia]

This thread is becoming laughable.  You honestly think there are more famous Jewish pianists because they have better "musicality" whatever the hell that means (it can mean anything to anyone).  Anyone that understands how a society works will know that there are more famous Jewish pianists because most classical listeners are white, European and/or Jewish.  Asians can't feel the blues?  Asians can't rap?  People just need to get off their piano bench and piano website and get out more, that's all I have to say.   Or, maybe it's cause I lived in New York (the most diverse place in the world) for a while that I see things differently.

[da jake]

Culture plays a huge factor.  The emphasis today among concert pianists is on technique, over-practice, and winning competitions. The atmosphere is not really conducive to the production of deep musical artists. On the world stage this is true for Russians, Russian Jews, Asian Russians, Black Asians  -- whatever...you name it.

Lang Lang is a Chinese pianist, who has fast fingers, but has little in the way of interpretive brilliance. Yevgeny Kissin is a Russian-Jewish pianist with fast fingers, but has little in the way of interpretive brilliance. Marc-AnDré Hamelin is a French-Canadian pianist with fast figners, but has little in the way of interpretive brilliance.

These three guys are much better at hitting all the correct notes in a shorter period of time than pianists like Horowitz. If Horowitz with his funny-flat-fingered technique tried out for an international piano competition with his 10/4, he would almost certainly get rejected. Then again, the people who go on to win that competition probably have 1/100th of the colour of Horowitz.

Anyway. It's true that the most of the best classical musicians are Jewish. There are some huge exceptions, like Rachmaninov and Gould. Then again, most of the great Jazz musicians are Black. This comes down to the luck of them having heaps of talent, and growing up in a cultural atmosphere that encouraged that type of musical expression.

[tds]

Let's compare China(An Asian country) and the USA.

China = 1.3 billion people
USA = .3 billion people

now, do you care to compare the length of existance of classical music life in both countries?

[e60m5]

Cultural upbringing plays a huge part in the musicality of an artist. There is a reason why so many great pianists are Jewish. There is a reason why (it seems) almost every Asian kid plays either the violin or piano, yet there are far more household-name Jewish professional musicians than Asian ones. "There are only three kinds of pianists: Jewish pianists, gay pianists, and bad pianists."

For instance, it is highly unlikely for an Asian Glenn Gould or Rosalyn Tureck to exist, but it is very likely there are dozens more undiscovered Asian Lang Langs out there.

I have often wondered at this question: do Asian people "feel the blues?" I don't mean simply "feel sad" or "feel down." Rather I'm referring to "the blues" with all its musical, literary, and spiritual implications - the kind of blues out of which the most sublime jazz music is born. Culture is everything - it explains why only African-Americans could have produced jazz and blues.

The Confucian tradition emphasizes solidity, discipline, and right conduct. Music is more than just playing the right notes or even playing the right notes the right way. It's also about breaking the rules at the right times. It is this instinctual knowledge of when to follow and when to break the rules that I think is one aspect of Alessandro's "je ne sais crois."

In summary, yes, I do believe Asian artists (or perhaps a better word is Asian-trained artists) lack this "je ne sais crois" - this rule-breaking instinct.

It's posts like this which make me wonder whether their authors bother even to try to think before they write.  I don't like to be harsh, but this is a typical post showcasing the blinding ignorance so prevalent amongst people today, especially in relation to this particular subject.

Now, you are right in saying that many, many Asian youths play a musical instrument such as the piano and the violin.  You then attempt to make a point out of the fact that in spite of this huge demographic, there are so few Asian classical pianists whose names are out there.  This demonstrates an absolute failure to grasp the basics of rational thought and principle.  In short, your statement is an abject failure because you fail to take into account the fact that whereas "Jewish" (which I shall take as the comparable demographic, since you chose it yourself) people have been playing the piano for centuries, classical music and piano playing in particular is only a very recent (comparatively speaking) activity of these Asian youths.  The reason why there are no Horowitzs/etc who are Asians is because in that period which gave us most of our legendary pianists classical music was not a big feature of Asian households.

The situation is very different today, as you note.  And look at the big names of the young generation.  Name me a single young pianist with as large a name as Lang Lang, or Yundi Li in that same age bracket.  The fact is that currently, out of the youngest generation of pianists, the big names are Asian - and what a coincidence that this comes at the same time that classical music's institutionalisation into the Asian household is starting to have its effects felt! ....Or not.

 

I mean nothing against you personally, and please take my word for that; but I take offense to your reasoning, which is so riddled with inaptitude and ignorance that I wonder whether you even thought about your post and your "argument" before writing it.

[e60m5]

Talk of a certain "Je-ne-sais-quoi" which Asians supposedly do not have is garbage.  I have seen horse sh*t of greater cogency and intellectual worth.  And to assert that the alleged Asian lack of this is due to the influence of Confucianism is stupid - offensively stupid.  It should be a crime to exhibit such stupidity.  But I digress.

It's funny how such a claim can be made in this thread in the face of countless praisings by the musical community of pianists such as Yundi Li for their innate musicality and understanding of the music.  The authors of such claims must be simply too wrapped up in their own insecurities to realise that all it takes to rebut their claim is one single Asian pianist who posseses musicality.  Oh, wait, this "je-ne-sais-quoi" is more than just musicality and the ability to deliver a convincing and touching performance?  Then what the hell is this "je-ne-sais-quoi"?  My ex-girlfriend's dog exhibited more intelligence than the authors of such claims do, and it used to run around in circles trying to sniff its own assh*le.

It's very often that people cite examples of Asian pianists who have tremendous fingers but lack the ability to deliver convincing and touching interpretations.  However, to attempt to claim that this is more common of Asian pianists than it is of Caucasian pianists (or pianists of any other ethnicity) is indicative of an intellect with the sharpness of congealed vomit.  Just as I cannot count the number of Asian pianists I have heard whose performance hit all the right notes but leave me unmoved, I similarly cannot count the number of pianists of other ethnicities whose performances leave me similarly unmoved.  Yet strangely, it is only in the case of the Asian pianist in which such banality is linked to race.  It should be immediately apparent to anybody with half a brain that when such lack of musicality is attributed even in part to ethnicity, the maker of that statement has the brainpower of fermented diarrhea.  I challenge anybody to argue this point, especially those who are of the opinion I am addressing.

In summary, to claim that Asians lack a special something, a "je-ne-sais-quoi" is absurd, laughable, and, ultimately, so stupid that it hurts.  What such a statement in fact conveys is insecurity disguised behind a pathetic veil of attempted reason. 

And yes, I do believe that people claiming a correlation between ethnicity and innate musicality lack a certain trait we call intelligence.

[zheer]

And yes, I do believe that people claiming a correlation between ethnicity and innate musicality lack a certain trait we call intelligence.

   e60m5 i think you will find that these morons have polluted this forum, infact they have polluted planet earth. Anyway though am not a LANG LANG fan, i do enjoy the fact that asians know haw to kick ass, and are doing very well in the world of classical music.

[baron_von_heimlich]

now, do you care to compare the length of existance of classical music life in both countries?

It really doesn't matter.  What matters, is that today classical music is firmly in place in China and they are making important contributions to the performance of classical music.

Having a culture around you that has had classical music for a long time is certainly a motivation to pick up classical music, but then again not having a culture with that history is also a strong motivation to pick up classical music.

By the same token, science has had a longer life in Italy than in the USA, but that doesn't seem to be hampering the USA at all.

[bernhard]

It should be a crime to exhibit such stupidity.

I disagree. Stupidity should always be openly displayed for all to see. Hidden stupidity is far more dangerous.

BW
B.

[steveie986]

Asians don't know how to break the rules. Blacks do - and they made jazz. Asians could not have made jazz music because if they tried to play the sax like Charlie Parker or the piano like Thelonious. Their mommas would have broken their hands for "playing the wrong notes."

[thalbergmad]

Asians don't know how to break the rules. Blacks do - and they made jazz. Asians could not have made jazz music because if they tried to play the sax like Charlie Parker or the piano like Thelonious. Their mommas would have broken their hands for "playing the wrong notes."

I don't know what to say about that.

I will therefore remain silent.

Thal

[steveie986]

Orientals, Israelites, Negroids, Euros - we're one big happy family! Yay! Group hug! End of discussion!

[tds]

It really doesn't matter.  What matters, is that today classical music is firmly in place in China and they are making important contributions to the performance of classical music.

Having a culture around you that has had classical music for a long time is certainly a motivation to pick up classical music, but then again not having a culture with that history is also a strong motivation to pick up classical music.

By the same token, science has had a longer life in Italy than in the USA, but that doesn't seem to be hampering the USA at all.

it does matter when you wanna do a proper analysis/comparison using statistics. more complete background ( like history, socio-culture, politics, etc ) should be provided. several century difference is several century difference. and u cant pretend that it makes no difference whatsoever on any aspects of life, and more relevanly, that of the statistics.

about science in usa and italy ( europe ):

how many people are native in the usa? how many are of the european origins ( and how many are others? )? again, do you really wanna discount the impact of their contribution to the science? i should not think so.

tds

[tds]

-

[tds]

Orientals, Israelites, Negroids, Euros - we're one big happy family! Yay! Group hug!

are you rich, sir? can you lend me some money?

[e60m5]

Normally I don't do this, but the very nature of this message epitomises to me the kind of person it takes to make these claims. 

This is a private message from our friend steveie986.  While I don't usually post private correspondence in public, I would have posted the same substance of my response to this in the thread anyway, so I shall save my own time and do it all here.

A message from steveie986

Your attempts at posturing and verbal intimidation is quite laughable. You dismiss ideas you cannot accept by calling their author all kinds of stupid, which only reflects the glaring reality of your own thick and closed skull. This supremely dangerous close-mindedness is related to your highly Asian sort of arrogance. You don't like an idea - fine. Calling the author names (horseshit, criminal, etc) like that is unbelievably disgraceful. Are you also so sensitive and uptight in real life? Perhaps you have a few issues you need to discuss with your therapist. Hey, I know many talented Asian folks with issues - social anxiety, self-image issues, etc, I may be able to help you!

I am a person of mixed ethnicities, so I can call it as I see it. I'm talking about cultural correlation, not racial absolutes. I'm talking about attitudes, and if we cannot generalize about attitudes over cultural populations in the name of PC we have nothing to talk about.

I mean no disrespect, esteemed sir.

Have a nice day.

Now, to look closer.

Your attempts at posturing and verbal intimidation is quite laughable.

My attempts "is" laughable.  Okay then.  Your attempt at claiming so is quite literally laughable, making me laugh out loud just by my looking at it.

You dismiss ideas you cannot accept by calling their author all kinds of stupid, which only reflects the glaring reality of your own thick and closed skull. This supremely dangerous close-mindedness is related to your highly Asian sort of arrogance.

I need not point out to anybody your self-evident racist beliefs.  I note that you are accusing me of a "thick and closed skull" and "dangerous close-mindedness".

You don't like an idea - fine. Calling the author names (horseshit, criminal, etc) like that is unbelievably disgraceful.

I find it highly ironic that somebody with openly racist beliefs can attempt to take the moral high road.  I don't have time for mindless hypocrites.

Are you also so sensitive and uptight in real life? Perhaps you have a few issues you need to discuss with your therapist. Hey, I know many talented Asian folks with issues - social anxiety, self-image issues, etc, I may be able to help you!

Given that everybody here can see your views and my views, and given that people here know me and know who I am, it's really quite pathetic to see your attempts to belittle me. 

I am a person of mixed ethnicities, so I can call it as I see it. I'm talking about cultural correlation, not racial absolutes. I'm talking about attitudes, and if we cannot generalize about attitudes over cultural populations in the name of PC we have nothing to talk about.

Glad to know that your "mixed ethnicity" status suddenly gives you the right to call things as you see them - or, more relevantly, I am glad to know that you feel that your own racial status affects your point of view.  I can't say that the same is true for myself - my only allegiance is to the truth. 

I am very glad to see that you realise that you are attempting to talk about cultural correlation.  I also note your failure to address any of the points I raise here.  You claim there to be a correlation between Asian ethnicity and a lack of a "je-ne-sais-quoi".  I ask you to substantiate this claim, and counterclaim that the same is true for any other race - there is a similar majority of uninspired pianism no matter the ethnicity.  But you quite evidently fail to comprehend this, and miss the point entirely.

I don't object to your drawing generalisations in relation to "attitudes over cultural populations" in the name of political correctness.  I object to your drawing those generalisations because they are ignorant, injudicious, insubstantiated, and incorrect.

In summary, you have quite stunningly managed to address a personal message to me in which you attack me on racial grounds, attempt to sound intelligent, and launch some hapless ad hominems, all without addressing any of the points I have raised. 

But wait, there's more!

Asians don't know how to break the rules. Blacks do - and they made jazz. Asians could not have made jazz music because if they tried to play the sax like Charlie Parker or the piano like Thelonious. Their mommas would have broken their hands for "playing the wrong notes."

I'm glad to know that you think yourself capable of speaking on behalf of over far over a billion people, buddy.  This statement of yours speaks quite astonishingly for itself.

Yep, you do indeed disgust me. 

Verdict, anybody?

[e60m5]

no need for another post here.

[bernhard]

Stupidity should always be openly displayed for all to see. Hidden stupidity is far more dangerous.

BW
B.

I rest my case.

[mephisto]

Steveie has right-wing political wiews, what else can we expect

[nicco]

I know its a heated discussion and all, but when someone sends a private message its a hint that they dont want it displayed in public. Its up to the reciever to show enough respect to keep it private, wich in this case e60m5 failed to do.

[tds]

I know its a heated discussion and all, but when someone sends a private message its a hint that they dont want it displayed in public. Its up to the reciever to show enough respect to keep it private, wich in this case e60m5 failed to do.

i agree.

[airasia]

Whatever, stevie should know that his message isn't actually "private" and can potentially be shown to others anyway.  Great posts e60, teach these kids a lesson.  I was amazed that no one was seeing things the way i saw it until you posted.  Some morons actually think CONFUCIUS plays a role in the way asians (it's ridiculous enough to even say chinese, but then you have to be even stupider and say asian) play piano, holy sh*t.  You honestly believe asians give a rat's ass about Confucius when they are playing?  Then some morons actually think there have been more famous Jewish pianists because they have better "musicality."  Just WOW.  Like what e60 and I said, almost all listeners were white/jewish, and almost all pianists were white/jewish.  There are even more idiotic statements, but that's all I'll address.  What are these kids learning these days in school?  I'm calling them kids and i'm only 21.  They might even be my age and older which i doubt, but making statements like those you deserved to be called a little kid i don't care how old you are.  Confucius taught them to play piano in that style.  what HAHAHA.  And especially that korean guy in that competition, cause all koreans live by Confucius' words day in day out in EVERYTHING they do too.  get the *** outta here.  And the most pathetic, sad, despicable part is these people are posting seriously too.
Lastly, stevie's talking like asians have never and cannot improvise on the piano ever.  GET OUT OF YOUR HOUSE and stop basing your opinion on what you think might be the truth because of some stupid preconception you've formed based on what you've looked at and heard from a distance.

[steveie986]

My reaction to all this nonsense is simply mild bemusement. Of course, e60 publicly posting a private message contravenes netiquette, but we'll ignore that.

This is my summary of the situation: I share a few opinions that are perhaps provocative, and e60 goes ballistic and starts to call me all sorts of names. I've obviously trodden on his Asian tail a little bit. So I write him a personal message to clarify and explain no harm done.

The point I gather is that while e60 is highly talented, he is somewhat insecure and probably has anger management issues because what he doesn't agree with, he vituperates. That's not very gentlemanly and doesn't reflect well on his cosmopolitan upbringing.

By now my original post has gotten so mutated and perverted by folks who can't read (i.e. airasia) and who cry "racism" whenever cultural issues are discussed that it isn't worth it to waste my time.

[zheer]

  Racism =  hostile attitude or behaviour to members of other race,based on a belief in the innate superiority of one's own race. hence  Calling someone asian or chines is not a racist remark. On the other hand saying someone can not play a Beethoven sonata because he or she is asian and not German, is racist.

[airasia]

hahaha, you can't say "no harm done" when YOU'RE the one doing the harm, only HE can say "no harm done" if HE feels there was no harm done.  You get more stupid and arrogant with each post.  This is pathetic.  And my last post wasn't entirely directed toward you, just the last part.  I didn't distort anything you said.  You said "asians can't break rules" which implies they are like machines doing what they are told.  Thats why i said you're talking like they can't improvise.  Don't tell me I didn't read what you said.  And if you don't see how saying that would be insulting to anybody who is NOT racist, not just asians, you are a moron plain and simple.  For example, you don't go to a poetry message board and say "black people (or insert any race or culture) can't write as well so their poetry isn't as meaningful or lyrical."  That's some INSULTING pure BS,  do you get the point now you clueless ***?  If you at least admitted to trying to piss people off I wouldn't have cared, but you're trying to act like the innocent victim here.     

I wish I could have all these people saying that asian pianists lack a "certain something" listen to two recordings of the same piece, one by an asian pianist, one by a white pianist.  I'd then ask them which is which and I guarantee it'll be a pure guess. 

One last thing, it seems like a lot of people that call a pianist bad because of a lack of "musicality" do so to bring down people superior to them at playing the piano.  Musicality is SUBJECTIVE.  It is not a right or wrong.  You can't say a pianist is horrible when his rhythm, tempo and notes are fine, but he just plays it differently than you'd like to.

[da jake]

Hey e60. I enjoyed reading your responses and I agree with you that there is a disturbing and racist bias against Asian musicians. What did you think of my suggestion that the problem is universal among most concert pianists with the heavy emphasis on technique over musicality?

[airasia]

Hey e60. I enjoyed reading your responses and I agree with you that there is a disturbing and racist bias against Asian musicians. What did you think of my suggestion that the problem is universal among most concert pianists with the heavy emphasis on technique over musicality?

There is an emphasis on technique over musicality because musicality is a personal expression.  How can you tell someone how to express themselves?  You learn the technique and then you play it your own way.  I would find it insulting if someone told me how to play a certain piece how THEY would like it.

[moi_not_toi]

Best young Classical Pianist?
Why me, of course!

Of course not.

In my opinion, I would have to say a lady I know that is in her Senior year of High School.
Don't know her that well, but I do remember her name: Judy Bau. I think that's how she spelled her name. I'm not sure.

[airasia]

I was on youtube today and this is a pure coincidence, but if you subscribe to a certain korean piano teacher's videos on youtube you probably have seen the video about pieces not being songs.  And surprisingly I see the name "steveie986" and it looks familiar.  Then big surprise, he's making straight up racist remarks and it reminds me of this thread, this is the worst:

I don't think the point he's making is "silly." Song only refers to vocal music! But the fact that the Japanese gentleman makes these videos is rather silly and smacks of middle-aged ennui and megalomania. Again, I posit that his students aren't giving him due respect (you know how the Japs are) and so he has to seek it on the "Internets."

If you want to see all the comments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSi6q-5nZIw

Now please, don't give us that BS about only discussing "cultural issues" anymore.  You've lost all credibility.  This is you: "come on you chinks, japs and niggers, I'm just making generalizations based on how you look and what i've heard about you, don't be so uptight." 


By the way I happen to agree with steveie that this video is unnecessary, but his remarks are even more unnecessary.

[da jake]

Shameful comments.