If Chopin had lived another two healthy years...

[orlandopiano]

You're allowed to choose three from this list.

[jre58591]

i wish he woulda composed a set of variations on a theme of paganini. you can never have too many renditions of that famous caprice.

[kriskicksass]

I chose Preludes, Etudes, and another Sonata. I chose these because not only would it involve a lot more new Chopin than any of the other choices, Chopin wrote some of his most masterful works in these forms.

Also, did the Paganini Caprices come during Chopin's life? I always knew that they were contemporaries, but I always think of Paganini as coming after Chopin because he's so often associated with Liszt (who outlived Chopin by somthing like 50 years).

[mephisto]

Really it pisses me of some times, that Chopin lived so short a live.

[mephisto]

Also, did the Paganini Caprices come during Chopin's life? I always knew that they were contemporaries, but I always think of Paganini as coming after Chopin because he's so often associated with Liszt (who outlived Chopin by somthing like 50 years).

They were written before Chopin came to Paris. And Chopin lived in Paris for most of his live.

[stevie]

hahaha, a legendary set of new etudes

[mikey6]

whoah! a 4th sonata - how could he top the previous ones? surley he couldn't get much wierder than 2.  Same with da ballades - another to follow the 4th?  he'd have a lot to live up to.  a 3rd piano cocnerto would probably be manageable - which he did attempt and turned into that masterpiece 'allegro de concert' (but he probably wouldn't)
A different set of preludes would be interesting - but I'd like to see him write some more chamber music, there ain't too much (few cello pieces and the trio), maybe a violin sonata or a wind quintet..

[jas]

Interesting topic.

I think he'd have written more Polonaises and Mazurkas, since both genres spanned his entire life. And some large scale works, though not another sonata. Maybe something along the lines of the Fantasie in Fm. Something personal and un-generic. I can't see him composing another full set of etudes or preludes.

Also, he might have finished the piano method that he began, which I'd love to have been able to read.

i wish he woulda composed a set of variations on a theme of paganini. you can never have too many renditions of that famous caprice.

I agree, it would have been interesting. He never wrote any variations in his later years though, or did he?

Jas

[sevencircles]

If Beethoven lived another 2 years he would have finished this amazing string Quintet that may be his best composition ever.

Check out http://www.unheardbeethoven.org/search/search.pl?piece=woo62gp1.mid

Watch out for the best fugato ever written near the middle.

[orlandopiano]

If Beethoven lived another 2 years he would have finished this amazing string Quintet that may be his best composition ever.

Check out http://www.unheardbeethoven.org/search/search.pl?piece=woo62gp1.mid

Watch out for the best fugato ever written near the middle.

I agree, the late string quartets of Beethoven are some of the most stunningly gorgeous works in the entire repertoire.

[lisztisforkids]

What does anything matter!? Mozart is dead! 

[phil13]

Lets see...He wouldn't have composed another concerto, the two he did write were vehicles for his talent. Probably not another Sonata after the Op.58 and also the Cello Sonata Op.65.

I think he would have written some new nocturnes, and a lot of small pieces like the mazurkas and waltzes.

Oh, and one more thing...

Chopin would have re-written FI. Its thematic material, although interesting, uses a lot of plagiarism and is not improvisatory in nature (Oh, the irony of naming the least spontaneous of the four "fantasy- impromptu") Thus, he would have made it much more interesting, more developed, and more spontaneous- maybe even something to top Op.51.

It would have been glorious, and we would not hate it to the extent pianists seem to now.
Phil

[orlandopiano]

Chopin would have re-written FI. Its thematic material, although interesting, uses a lot of plagiarism

I'm aware of the passage from Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement. Are they others besides that?

[arensky]

Cool topic, the best I've seeen in a while!  

I voted for Ballade 5 and "something new and unique", because I feel that they go hand in hand. Chopin was the composer who changed harmony and form forever, and I would want to see him continue down that road. From about Op.57 (Berceuse) on he was exploring new territory in pieces like the Polonaise-Fantasie (sp?), Barcarolle, and the op.59 Mazurkas. The Cello Sonata, for all it's problems also points to where he was going with harmony and stucture, in that case with sonata form, which he had been trying to bend to his own will his whole life. Still I think that Chopin's genius lay in his development of new forms, out of the old ones. The Ballades are essentially a sonata form alternative, the Scherzi and Polonaises magnified and extended ABA dance forms, and the Barcarolle is a giant Nocturne, if you will. I'm already sorry I didn't vote for more Mazurkas; the Op. 59 Mazurkas are painted on a broader canvas than the earlier ones, perhaps he would have evantually composed a "Mazurka-Fantasy" along the lines of the Polonaise Fantaisie or the middle section of the f# minor Polonaise. Who knows what he would have written . After all this was the the composer who more than any other changed music forever, a complete original who left the past behind while respecting it and learning from it.

Only two years? I don't think that's enough time! He worked slowly, I would want to give him at least seven...
 

[apion]

Piano Concerto no. 3 could be kickass; as could Ballade no. 5

Maybe a set of variations with a fugue as a 3rd.

[musicsdarkangel]

Chopin would have composed a violin concerto for solo bassoon.

[arensky]

I'm aware of the passage from Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement. Are they others besides that?

While cleaning out my studio the other day I found a book I didn't know I had, "Chopin" by Arthur Hedley, a nice concise 222 pp. and the best short bio on him I've ever read; it focuses on the music, not his personal life. At any rate on p.170 it says..

"Early in 1834 Chopin sent his sister an album containing the Nocturnes op.15, which Schlesinger had just published. In it was also a copy of Moscheles' Impromptu in Eb op.89, which had appeared simeltaneously with the Nocturnes. A glance at Moscheles' piece shows whence Chopin derived the idea for the work issued after his death as a Fantaisie-Impromptu, and explains why the composer did not publish it, in spite of it's superiority over Moscheles' commonplace work: the plagiarism would have been too obvious. Here is Moscheles: (there is a four measure 4/4 RH excerpt in the book; all notes are 16ths except the last of the first three bars which is an 8th. The pattern in the last measure is two 16ths one 8th )

(first two bars) Eb D Eb D /Eb F G Ab /Bb G Ab A /Bb Eb G/ (2nd bar repeats the 1st exactly)/

(bar three) Ab(up a seventh) G F Eb /D Db C B /Bb A Ab F /D F Bb/

(bar four) D F Cb /D F Bb /D F Cb /D F Bb/

Well writing that out was annoying!   Maybe it's time to install the scanning hardware...  

Anyway if you try this out you will hear a happy perky Fantaisie-Impromptu... I wouldn't have published FI either; wonder what the whole Moscheles Impromptu sounds like, is there a mirror of Chopin's middle section? In this case Moscheles' would have to be in eb minor. Perhaps someone has the music in PDF and can post it!  
 

[arensky]

I'm aware of the passage from Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement.

I'm not; which passage is it?

[gruffalo]

i havent even heard Chopin's first sonata. is there even one? i know that sounds weird, but i have never heard anyone talk, write or record this piece.

i voted for ballade, because that is my favourite stuff from Chopin.

Gruff

[phil13]

I'm not; which passage is it?

In Moonlight? It's right near the end of the 3rd mvt., the bar after the chromatic run but before the two low whole notes. It's cut and pasted directly into measures 7 and 8, RH, of Fantasie-Impromptu.

Phil

[mikey6]

i havent even heard Chopin's first sonata. is there even one? i know that sounds weird, but i have never heard anyone talk, write or record this piece.
Gruff

Biret and I think Ashkenazy has recorded it.  op.5 in cmin, very un-Chopinley.  Has a sort of unconvincing slow movt. in 5/4.

[pianistimo]

arensky,  that was a great read.  i completely agree about his beginning to combine forms.  it would have been interesting to hear a mazurka-fantasy or a new kind of form for the piano concerto (perhaps eliminating half the orchestra and adding another piano).  also, he may have substantially changed the rhythms in the mazurka.  this article explains how he played with a slight rhythmic twist:
http://homepages.kdsi.net/~sherman/wasowski.html
to complicate matters - there are also different types of mazurkas according to this article.  the 'kujawiak' is one type that is quasi-improvised.  mentions op. 68 #4 as this 'kujawiak' type of mazurka.

he was always innovative with forms and technique.  i think he might have come up with some new technique to go along with the form.  perhaps as his broadwood was flimsy compared with today - he would - as the piano progressed - taken his compositions to the limits of the keyboard.  and, yet, when he could have gone much farther (as beethoven) he does seem to value singable notes.  i think he would have continued his 'tenor' voice idea throughout his pieces despite the slight range increase?  was the tenor voice his own.  a way to sing consolation to himself.

somehow, i get the feeling the oboe as an instrument would have become very important to him.  have to look at his orchestrations again.  i think perhaps he would have actually added instruments and gotten better at orchestration had he had the time and not been so sick.   he always seemed to feel less of himself when having to orchestrate although he doesn't seem bothered about it in this letter of 1834:  "mozart encompasses the entire domain of musical creation, but i've only got the keyboard in my poor head.  i know my limitations, and i know i'd make a fool of myself if i tried to climb too high without the ability to do it.  they plague me to death urging me to write symphonies and operas, and they want me to be everything in one -- a polish rossini and a mozart and beethoven.  but, i just laugh under my breath and think to myself that one must start from small things.  i'm only a pianist, and if i'm worth anything, that is good, too...."

people sometimes complain about his instrumental doubling - and carl tausig and mily balakirev both reorchestrated some of his stuff -but, chopin's orchestration is left alone by others.  the particular performers that he was studying at the time were field, hummel.  perhaps the instrumentation is deep into the string section as 'accompaniment.'  it makes the piano sound less exciting than maybe alternating the winds and strings as mozart - but, in any case - i do think chopin would have resolved some issues he always fought with such as this one.

[orlandopiano]

Here is Moscheles: (there is a four measure 4/4 RH excerpt in the book; all notes are 16ths except the last of the first three bars which is an 8th. The pattern in the last measure is two 16ths one 8th )

(first two bars) Eb D Eb D /Eb F G Ab /Bb G Ab A /Bb Eb G/ (2nd bar repeats the 1st exactly)/

(bar three) Ab(up a seventh) G F Eb /D Db C B /Bb A Ab F /D F Bb/

(bar four) D F Cb /D F Bb /D F Cb /D F Bb/

Anyway if you try this out you will hear a happy perky Fantaisie-Impromptu...

I'm not hearing Fantasy Impromptu in this at all. What am I missing here?

[arensky]

I'm not hearing Fantasy Impromptu in this at all. What am I missing here?

It's not exact, but the shape is the same. When I looked at the excerpt in the book the visual similarity was striking. I guess we should get the actual music...

[vers la flamme]

Chopin's last mazurka and his Polonaise-fantasie both show that he was headed in a new direction.

I think would have written more polonaises and Waltz with a different feel and interpretation