Chopin ballade 1 question

[psaiko]

I have almost learnt the entire piece, but there is one techique I have trouble with. A couple of places you need to play the same chord twice at very high speed, for instance the right hand in the beginning of the coda. I cant get this up to speed, maybe I dont use my wrist right, could someone give some hints on how to practise for this technique.

I find the rest of the coda a lot easier, and can play this above performance speed.

[zheer]

the right hand in the beginning of the coda.

    Well since am also working on this ballad i might be able to help. Yes this part of the coda is difficut though gets easy over time. Aside from the obvious slow and gradual daily practice , it helps if the repeated chords are practiced with active finger tips relaxed wrist and the side-ways motion of the wrist as one plays the note A with the thumb. There is a video of Horowitz playing this Ballade on this forum, it would be a good idea to watch and learn from that video.Good luck.

[quantum]

Have you ever played with a snare drum?  Anyways when you learn how to roll most people first think of hitting each individual hit.  However it is much more efficiant to let the stick bounce off the drum and control the rebounds. 

Similarly, think of bouncing your hand on the keys.  Approach the first chord, then think of letting it bounce back over the same notes to play the second chord.  Use a supple wrist, firm fingers. 

Try not to think of pushing your arm into the keys twice, as fast as possible.  This idea may promote a more tense wrist action. 

[avetma]

I agree with quantum. And with his method you should try some other exercises like repeating chord three times (not twice) and thumb note twice (not once). Practise like that, and when you try to play as it is written it will be easier. It worked for me.

Ante

[acha114]

I have almost learnt the entire piece, but there is one techique I have trouble with. A couple of places you need to play the same chord twice at very high speed, for instance the right hand in the beginning of the coda. I cant get this up to speed, maybe I dont use my wrist right, could someone give some hints on how to practise for this technique.

I find the rest of the coda a lot easier, and can play this above performance speed.

I can get this repeated chord section with no problems, but my problem is the middle of the coda after that repeated chord section. Does anyone have any advice with that part? My wrist seems to tire at the end if I play at performance speed. Also I tend to miss a couple of notes in the chords (particularly the 6ths) because of the speed that the coda is played. Anyone able to share something to help practice this section?

[dnephi]

Wrist action- studied in Mendelssohn Variation serieuse # 12 and  Macdowell Op. 46#10,

[lung7793]

If you can't play it fast, it usually is just a matter of working it up to speed.  You must make sure you playing it right slowly.  Make sure you are staying very relaxed in that right hand, also give a slight accent to the downbeats and not to every note/chord.  With the 6ths, again it's accents.  When they first start, think "down" on the thumb then "up" with the 2-5, then later down w/ the 2-5 and up w/ the thumb.  Practice at least 4 times slowly for every 1 time fast.  This coda is notorious, so just know that you're not alone!  What does your teacher say about it?

[psaiko]

Thanks for many good suggestions

I can get this repeated chord section with no problems, but my problem is the middle of the coda after that repeated chord section. Does anyone have any advice with that part? My wrist seems to tire at the end if I play at performance speed. Also I tend to miss a couple of notes in the chords (particularly the 6ths) because of the speed that the coda is played. Anyone able to share something to help practice this section?

I also had some trouble with this section. At first it seemed unhuman to play this at the right speed. But after practising daily an amount of time it just became more and more natural. It is important to practise slowly, but occationally also try to play as fast you can even if you dont hit the right notes. This way your brain will figure out the most efficient hand movements.

For me the breakthrough came when I could play relaxed at any speed just slapping the notes with my fingers. Your say that your hands tire, which means you are not playing relaxed. If you are not relaxed you have to break some physical laws to play this at performance speed.

[acha114]

Thanks for the suggestions, these seem very helpful.

lung7793: I currently don't have a teacher, I am teaching myself at the moment.

[super666lucifer]

SIMPLE

light on the first one, heavy on the second. the second one is on the beat aswell, so it makes musical aswell as technical sense.  keep your hand close to the keys.
good luck!

[super666lucifer]

that is for psaiko's problem by the way

for acha114

just take the pedal off (whilst practicing obviously) and make sure you can hear every note. easiest way is to start slowly, and make sure you can hear the thumb notes clearer than the others. hope that helps

[dnephi]

First get them even without a pulse.  Practice with rythms- hit he first harder or you will lose clarity.  Thendo slow metronomed pulse practice.