Learning Islamey

[w0mbat]

I have loved this piece many years for a number of reasons, but resisted learning until recently as I finally feel 'ready' to devote to playing it.  (After just having learnt Beethoven's Appassionata, I realize this may be a bit of a jump in technique, but am willing to work hard to achieve it.) 

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions / tips on how to approach it, if it is a piece that you learn from beginning to end, what to look out for, or any other insightful things about the piece that you may have discovered or read about. 

Thank you!

[lostinidlewonder]

This peice can be easily played if you slow down the tempo, but the real challenge is to find a good EXCITING tempo. Personally I think little of a pianists abilty if they take this peice too slowly, listen to how Kissin plays it, thats how you should play it once you really own it.

The piece is in my opinion slightly more difficult than the 3 movemnts of the Apassionata together (even though it is shorter), but if you can command the Beethoven without fuss then you should have the capability to play Balakirev's Islamey and learn to control some keyboard acrobatics you will face in it. Like any work you should take time to section it up into its musical parts, you should highlight parts which you find difficult (note patterns you haven't experienced or had much exp with before) as well as those which has procedure which is standard for you.

There is unfortunately no general tips or rules people can give you for any piece you study unless you specify which bars are troubling you and why. This is because everyone has different problems and face different challenges, so if anyone tries to give you tips it might not help you at all, and in fact distract you from what you should be actually focusing on.

Good luck.

[maxy]

you may want to start from the recap, just after the "slow" section.  The coda is also quite challenging.  Speed is not that much of an issue.  Bronfmann has a good rec that is quite slow compared to the average rec.

[franzliszt2]

I found the great difficulty inplaying Islamey was to get the voices to speak. It can easily sound like a big mess, as your hands are everywhere, and very hard to control. It's a hard piece to play well as you can't hide behind anything, it's very precise, and wrong notes can't be covered. The textures are very dense, and the pedal cannot be realied on. Thats what Ifound the greatest challenge, and obviously learning the notes is a pretty hard task in itself. The speed is a problem, as once it starts getting fast small things start going wrong, and then they get worse.

Be patientwith it, and be prepared to work at it for a long time, and you'll be fine learning it.

[opus10no2]

if you can command the Beethoven without fuss then you should have the capability to play Balakirev's Islamey and learn to control some keyboard acrobatics you will face in it.

I don't agree with this.

Through the romantic period octave technique and double notes were used alot more, and require dedication to learn these new techniques.

I'd say - on top of learning the islamey, work on your octaves- for speed and endurance, and become adept at double notes (chromatic 3rds and 6ths).

[ralessi]

I agree with Maxy.  I began learning this piece a while back and found myself stuck after the slow section.  I had worked so much on the first section, then the slow section thinking that I was in the clear, but as difficult as different parts of the first section are, they are nothing compared to what's to come.  If you can start after the slow section and actually work it and make progress, then go back to the easy part and you're done.  Otherwise, you'll give yourself a false sense of security and be pissed off cause you can't learn the 2nd half of the piece.  Many people (including myself) overlook the endurance factor.  Even if you think you're technically ready (go through and break down the different little sections of different technique use and make yourself aware of what you're going to need to solidify in your studies) remember that after the slow section, it doesnt stop so you can rest.  Overall I found that as much as i love everything about this piece, there are SO many other pieces out there that you could learn in HALF the time if not less, and get more mileage out of.  You really cannot do anything with islamey.  But hey, this is just my opinion.  That's why i started the Liszt sonata

Cheers!
Rick

[franzliszt2]

My teacher once told me...."Some pianists can play Islamey, some cannot. If you cannot, don't try to learn it, your wasting time, if you can...good for them"

Islamey is very much the same techncally, all octaves and fast double notes, and repeated notes. If you have that ability then the piece comes easy (not easy but you know what I mean, speed is not that much of an issue). Best advice I can offer anyone doing this piece is to not get depressed learning it, I would wake up some days and go to the piano, and it would fel as if I'd never practiced it the day before. That happens a lot with big stuff like islamey, but remember...if you spent 4 hours on it one day, and go to it the next day and play badly, it will take a lot less time to get it back to where it was the day before, and it will be stronger. Practice it all seperate voices, but using same fingers, do dotted rhythms, slow metronome work, seperate hands, eyes closed, and then build from there. Some of the worst passages are the LH double notes, and the Leaps. The leaps are evil, just bear with it and eventually it will come with ease.

[mycrabface]

I have loved this piece many years for a number of reasons, but resisted learning until recently as I finally feel 'ready' to devote to playing it.  (After just having learnt Beethoven's Appassionata, I realize this may be a bit of a jump in technique, but am willing to work hard to achieve it.) 

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions / tips on how to approach it, if it is a piece that you learn from beginning to end, what to look out for, or any other insightful things about the piece that you may have discovered or read about. 

Thank you!

This is one of my favourite songs!! Its too advanced for me, but I plan to learn it by the time I turn seventeen!!

[w0mbat]

Thank you for your insights, so far it's been an absolute blast learning the piece.  (I can never wait to get home to practice it!)

This peice can be easily played if you slow down the tempo, but the real challenge is to find a good EXCITING tempo. Personally I think little of a pianists abilty if they take this peice too slowly, listen to how Kissin plays it, thats how you should play it once you really own it.

That's a great point - I've been trying to play each section/page to speed before moving on, although I wonder if I can get away with trying to get through the piece first a little below the tempo marking.  Do I run into a LOT of trouble when it's time to speed up or does it come naturally?

...but as difficult as different parts of the first section are, they are nothing compared to what's to come.  If you can start after the slow section and actually work it and make progress, then go back to the easy part and you're done.  Otherwise, you'll give yourself a false sense of security and be pissed off cause you can't learn the 2nd half of the piece.

This was a little bit disconcerting, but I wonder if you could elaborate on "what's to come" (and where exactly this part begins.)  I think I might keep plowing through from the beginning (so far so good, but that's the trap you're warning me about!)

As for the mileage issue, I simply love this piece too much not to learn it - although it was a little disappointing playing parts of it for my parents over the weekend ("Why don't you learn something nicer?")

Thank you, I can use all the help and support!

[jakev2.0]

Play them the middle section? That will win them over into the Islamey camp. 

[ralessi]

It's SO funny because you explaining it, is EXACTLY EXACTLY what was going through my head and what i was doing! But, like i said, the first section seems very difficult when first going into it (just knowing the piece and beginning to learn it) but then seems much easier when you start working on it.  So you start to work and things are going well, but there will always be those 2 parts (fast octaves in right hand) that will give you trouble, but overall you feel pretty good about it.  The second section is even better cause it's easier and as you're learning it and getting further you seem to be making so much progress and you'll be so happy with it! then you get the 2nd half of the piece and it's just hell! When you are not working on it yet, you don't feel too bad about it, because it sounds very similar with a lot of the same techniques and melodies, but don't judge a book by it's cover.  I like to think of the 2nd half of this piece (after the slow section) as very similar to Liszt's Mazeppa (only harder),  It's just a test of endurance and technical superiority.  You will find that you have to work 5 times as hard IF NOT MORE, in the 2nd half than you have in the other 2 sections.  I don't know exactly what it is that makes this section so much more difficult, it just is.  So a year and a half later, I still pound on the first half of the piece once a day or so! One day you'll realize that it's just a waste of time right now.  While your younger and developing as a musician as we are (me only being 20), there's no reason to put so SO SO many hours in toward this when you could be learning and working on SO many other things.  I'm really sorry if i'm not being clear, if not just ask me more specific questions.

cheers!
Ricky

[pianolist]

I've just posted a recording of Islamey, made in Russia in early 1910, a few months before Balakirev died. The pianist was Ida Michelsohn, and I know nothing about her, but it's a fine performance on Welte-Mignon piano roll, and it has the distinction of having been made while Balakirev was still alive.

There is an introduction to it here:
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,20511.msg241183.html#msg241183

And the mp3 is here:
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,20642.msg241179.html#msg241179

This isn't going to help you technically, but it will give you an idea of old performance styles.

[fingersflying]

Take a look how EASY this piece can be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmli1QLNDW4

[bflatminor24]

This piece has an undeserved and yet notorious reputation for difficulty. It sounds impressive because it has a lot of octaves and is very percussive, which allows the listener to fully pay attention to each note.

HOWEVER

I don't advise actually spending the time to learn this piece. I don't think it's time well spent. In the time it takes you to learn it, you could learn much greater romantic literature such as a Chopin Sonata or Gaspard de la Nuit.

On a more personal note, I don't find the technique that difficult in this piece. I think it just "sounds" really hard, but ultimately it is still pretty shallow. However learning it up to speed would take some time. I would much rather put the time into Gaspard, which is a much better piece of music.

But go ahead, learn Islamey. Then you can say you did it.

~Max~

[maxy]

Islamey is a FUN piece.  PARTY mood!!!  Shallow? Hell yeah! So what?  It can be quite refreshing.

[bflatminor24]

Ok, whatever you say. If you're going to learn shallow pieces, learn shorter pieces.

Good examples:

Dohnanyi Cappriccio in F minor, Op. 28

Grieg Wedding Day at Troldhaugen

Liszt Grand Galop Chromatique

Liebermann Gargoyles

All of those are fun and in my opinion, worth learning.

~Max~

[jakev2.0]

Despite it's great difficulty, Islamey is far more than a mindless technical showpiece; the kind of ignorance that makes it out to be is one of the reason that so much of Balakirev's superb piano music remains unexplored.

[opus10no2]

I'nm not quite sure how Islamei is any more 'shallow', musically, than Schumann's Traumerei

[jakev2.0]

I'nm not quite sure how Islamei is any more 'shallow', musically, than Schumann's Traumerei

I actually think the middle section of Islamey is a far better moist than Traumerai. Traumerai is a cheap piece of music, imo.

[w0mbat]

Thank you for all your suggestions and comments so far, I had a quick technical question about the way the notes line up in this measure...

(Are these alignments right?  I am using for reference 2 measures before this one.)

[iumonito]

Yep.

[alejo_90]

This may be slightly off-topic, but if you want to hear (In my humble opinion) the most accurate, technically and musically interpretation of this piece, you should look for Boris Berezovsky's marvelous live rendition from the Tchaikovsky Competition Finals. That one is my favourite, followed closely by Kissin's version from his Amsterdam Recital.

Best,
Alex

[thaicheow]

I never quite like Islamey, and yeah, find that it is shallow. Gaspard seem worth the time learning. But I just listen Idil Biret's playing and find it quite cute, witty, and fun. She makes the piece seem easy under her fingers:

http://www.idilbiret.net/Archive/files/Balakirev_Islamey.mp3

[jakev2.0]

Barere, Berezovsky, Cziffra...[100 or so interpreters later]...Biret.

[elevateme]

Personally I think little of a pianists abilty if they take this peice too slowly, listen to how Kissin plays it, thats how you should play it once you really own it.

I didn't know Kissin played it  - do you have a recording? his technique is totally flawless

[houseofblackleaves]

I agree that Gaspard is a better peice.... but you need more emotional control than any other peice I am aware of to pull it off well.

[ihatepop]

Ask imbetterthenyou.

He claims he can play this piece.

ihatepop

[jakev2.0]

SURE you could ask iambetterthenyou [sic] for advice on Islamey, -OR- you could ask someone who has *actually* played Islamey...like e60. Personally, I recommend the latter.

[opus10no2]

I didn't know Kissin played it  - do you have a recording? his technique is totally flawless

No, he can't play fast enough to be considered flawless.

[infectedmushroom]

I didn't know Kissin played it  - do you have a recording? his technique is totally flawless

Here a live recording of Kissin playing Islamey (played live in Amsterdam 2002):

http://download.yousendit.com/11136C9034B23296




Here a video of a 17 year old guy playing Islamey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-wPe5KxWY

[franzliszt2]

Ask imbetterthenyou.

He claims he can play this piece.

ihatepop

hmmmm. His repertoire list in November certainly doesn't suggest this.

No, he can't play fast enough to be considered flawless.

Brilliant, I was expecting that lol 

[csy]

I would say Pletnev's Islamay Encore in his DG Carnegie Hall debut is among the best.
Pogorelich 's encore of Islamay  in one of his live recitals that I attended is also superb.

This may be slightly off-topic, but if you want to hear (In my humble opinion) the most accurate, technically and musically interpretation of this piece, you should look for Boris Berezovsky's marvelous live rendition from the Tchaikovsky Competition Finals. That one is my favourite, followed closely by Kissin's version from his Amsterdam Recital.

Best,
Alex

[jakev2.0]

Here a video of a 17 year old guy playing Islamey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-wPe5KxWY

e60's vid is much more interesting than this.

[Mozartian]

I actually think the middle section of Islamey is a far better moist than Traumerai. Traumerai is a cheap piece of music, imo.

oh snap!

Actually someone said that to some famous music person (i cant remember who atm), and s/he responded by writing a huge long thing, expounding on the depth of Traumeri so convincingly that the guy who said traumeri was shallow had to shut up.

For some reason I think this has to do with kapell or his teacher or something... ugh I wish I could remember. I'll get back to you if I can remember.

Anyways, the point is that Schumann is NOT shallow. He does require a special kind of understanding, though (as does much music).

[jakev2.0]

Well, I have weird opinions about Schumann. I think a lot of it is just a bunch of overrated drivel that could certainly be improvised comparably by a talented conservatory student, whereas stuff like the Fantasy, Symphonic Etudes, 3rd Sonata, and Kreisleriana are wonderful, profound musical statements that will stand the test of time.

[elevateme]

No, he can't play fast enough to be considered flawless.

how do you know he [kissin] cant?