Building your piano foundation

[djbrak]

In your opinion and expertise, what are some classical pieces that are "must know" or "standards" from the beginning level and up.  I have a baroque period book called Beginner's Bach.
Thanks!

[chopiabin]

Unless you are going to be a professional, I think you should just learn pieces that are appealing to you.

[djbrak]

I think I know that already.
Does someone have any useful responses?

[chopiabin]

I think I know that already.
Does someone have any useful responses?

I'm sorry that I'm so worthless.

[Hmoll]

Unless you are going to be a professional, I think you should just learn pieces that are appealing to you.

You are not worthless for saying this. However, it's not a very helpful response. Your response implies that if you are not planning on being professional, there's no point in approaching the instrument in the correct way. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, or you didn't think about the implications of what you posted, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly.

djbrak,

There is no agreed upon list of "standards"  you must know. The best advice I can give is become familiar with the major composers for piano/keyboard from Bach on forward. Play a mixture of music by these composers from different stylistic periods. Work your way up from the least difficult to more difficult within each composer's body of works.

Example: you might work on a Bach piece from the Anna Magdalena book, a Bartok piece from Mikrocosmos, and an easier Schumann piece. From there you would work on more difficult music - Bach Invention, Chopin Prelude or Mazurka, Clementi Sonatina, etc.

[djbrak]

How about some pieces in different periods, like:
Baroque:  Bach minuets, etc
Classical:  Mozart minuets, Beethoven minuets, Clementi Sonatinas
Romantic:  Chopin Prelude #4, #7, #24 (c minor)
20th Century:  Bartok?

.....

[Hmoll]

How about some pieces in different periods, like:
Baroque:  Bach minuets, etc
Classical:  Mozart minuets, Beethoven minuets, Clementi Sonatinas
Romantic:  Chopin Prelude #4, #7, #24 (c minor)
20th Century:  Bartok?

.....

That's pretty much what I meant.

[chopiabin]

I was saying that if you are not going to study piano in college, and you just do it for fun, then you should play pieces that you like ie. if you hate Bach, there's no reason to learn any.

[djbrak]

I was saying that if you are not going to study piano in college, and you just do it for fun, then you should play pieces that you like ie. if you hate Bach, there's no reason to learn any.

First of all, I am studying piano in college and I never said I hate Bach.  By all means, I'm interested in the complexity of the fugues, toccatas, 2-3-part inventions, etc.  

[djbrak]

I made sure the list I wrote DID feature works from the Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionist and 20th Century.
Maybe we didn't understand your question.

What would be your example of a 'useful response?'

Like you said at the end of the list, "Beginning to Intermediate", but that list is hardly that.
I know that there are very few pieces that are beginner or intermediate, that's why I am seeking advice from experience folks like you all.

[bernhard]

Like you said at the end of the list, "Beginning to Intermediate", but that list is hardly that.
I know that there are very few pieces that are beginner or intermediate, that's why I am seeking advice from experience folks like you all.

Er…

Below I have put the grades in Minsmusic suggested pieces. As you can see they do vary from beginner to intermediate (grades 1- 3: beginners – grades 4 – 6: intermediate), as she said (good selection too).

If you are interested in super easy pieces, then try this thread:

http://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1075165020


Bach Minuet in G from the little notebook – grade 1
Bach Prelude No.1 from the well tempered clavier – grade 3
Beethoven Fur Elise – grade 4
Beethoven Minuet in G – grade 3
Beethoven Moonlight Sonata – grade 5 (1st mov) – grade 6 (2nd mov) grade 8 (3rd mov.)
Beethoven Six Variations from the opera La Monlinara  Grade?
Brahms Waltz in A flat Op.39, No.15 – grade 5
Brahms Hungarian Dance No.5 – grade 5
Chopin Prelude Op.28, No.7 – grade 4
Daquin Le Coucou – grade 6
Debussy Le Petit Negre – grade 5
Dvorak Humoresque – grade 6
Diabelli Rondino – grade 3
Fibich Poem – grade ?
Grieg Anitra's Dance – grade 4
Franck The Doll's Complaint – grade 4
Handel Largo – grade 5
Haydn Gypsy Rondo – grade 4
Liszt Liebestraum – grade 8
MacDowell To A Wild Rose – grade 4
Mendelssohn Venetian Boat Song Op. 19, No.6 – grade 6
Mozart Alla Turca  (from Sonata K.331) – grade 6
Mozart Sonata K. 545 (complete) – grade 5
Offenbach Barcarolle – grade ?
Rameau La Tambourin  - grade ?
Rimsky-Korsakov Song of India - grade ?
Tchaikovsky Italian Song Op.39, No.15 – grade 3
Scriabin Album Leaf Op. 45,No.1 – grade ?
Schubert Serenade – grade ?
Schubert Moment Musical Op.94, No.3 – grade 6
Schumann The Happy Farmer (from theAlbum for the young) – grade 2
Schumann Traumerei  - grade 6

[rlefebvr]

Nice to have a grade with the recommendations.
A lot of these are on my list given to me by other members, but with no grade. Classics are hard for beginner intermediate players. You want to play good stuff, but you don't want to over extend yourself.

This helps me anyway.
thks

[rlefebvr]

Grading may not be perfect, but I find it help figuring out what range of music you should be looking at.
Looking at the above list, I know I can put myself at a 3 to 4 grade depending on the piece. I also know I should problably stay away from higher grades until I get better.

I guess Moonlight Sonata will have to wait a little longer.

Reading these posts, I aslo realise it's time I start looking for a teacher again.

[djbrak]

"In your opinion and expertise .... beginners to intermediate ...but that list is hardly that."

So my opinion and expertise sucks.    Thanks.  Some people are hard to please

Anyway, way to go Bernhard, putting the pieces into grades like that.  It gets back to another thread where we were talking about the difficulty and inconsistancy (and indeed relevance)of grading pieces.  In Australia, many of the pieces you assign grade 4, are grade 3, grade 5 are grade 4, grade 7 are grade 6 and so on.

Perhaps I should have said, early advanced intstead of intermediate - I was talking in relation to what is expected from virtuosos.

djbrak, I was concentrating on the "must know" and "standard" part.  These pieces are all very well known.  A lot of the easier stuff isn't as well known, but there is HEAPS of it!I also thought the list might be for personal use.  Now it sounds like a list for teaching.  Is this why you're interested?

If you would like a list of 'really' easy classics - grade one only, I can help with that.  Let me know if you're still interested.

Sorry, I never said your expertise sucks.  I wouldn't be asking you these questions if I knew you were inexperienced.  
Thank you for the list, and thanks Bernhard for the grade levels (even if they seem a little 'give or take a grade')
Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings,
-Renato

[bernhard]

 
Thank you for the list, and thanks Bernhard for the grade levels (even if they seem a little 'give or take a grade')

Yes, they are "give or take". The ABRSM itself (who grades these pieces) is not consistent. Some years they will have a piece on their grade 3 syllabus, and another year on the grade 4 syllabus. Grading is highly subjective since difficulties are often very personal.

I myself recognise only two levels in any piece: easy or impossible. And the way to make impossible pieces easy is to practise them (correctly)

Incidentally, pieces have been going up in grades of difficulty over the years. For instance in the 60s Satie's Gymnopedie no. 1 was grade 3. In 1998 (I think) it was grade 6. I think this is due to the modern educational trend of never failing anyone. In order to keep giving certificates to people they had to make the exams easier.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[comme_le_vent]

out of curiosity, what grades are alkan's concerto for solo piano, godowsky's chopin etudes and sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum?  

[bernhard]

out of curiosity, what grades are alkan's concerto for solo piano, godowsky's chopin etudes and sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum?  

Alkan’s music, like most of the repertory discussed in this forum is beyond the grading system. The ABRSM goes only up to grade 8 and if you look at the syllabus, the pieces are not that difficult – compared to the overall piano repertory. Things like Chopin Nocturnes, Waltzes and Mazurkas will be there, but the etudes, most of the Preludes, the Scherzos, Ballades, Sonatas, etc. will be considered advanced, post-grade 8 pieces. Alkan in general (there are exceptions like some of Esquisses) and all of Godowsky will be even beyond these advanced pieces.

Here is my analogy. If you dip your hand in boiling water (100 Celsius) it is going to hurt. If you dip in molten lead (about 400 celsius if I am not mistaken but if I am it does not matter) you will probably get even a worse burn, after all it is four times hotter. But will it feel any different? I have not tried, but I doubt it will feel different.

Grade pieces are bath water: they start getting uncomfortable at around 45 celsius, and that is where the grading system stops. You will not see anything beyond 60 celsius in any graded syllabus. Most Chopin and Liszt are boiling water and a bit over. With Godowsky and Alkan we are talking molten lead and volcanic lava.

[comme_le_vent]

so the sorabji would be like dipping your hand in the core of the sun??  

[bernhard]

Both hands.

[allchopin]

Taking the mediocre analogy further, doing anything like putting your hands into this molten literature is idiotic and pointless- just like playing the Opus Clavecumbalisticum (sp).  It's not worth all the practice time!

[Chiyo]

[Butting in...]
I'd recommend studying following composers in order..

Czerny & Hanon all along the way

1: Burgmuller
2: Clementi and Kuhlau (Sonatas)
3: Mozart(Sonatas), Bach (Inventions)
4: Beethoven (Sonatas)
5: Chopin Waltz, Nocturnes, Preludes
6: Liszt, Chopin Etudes & Sonatas, Bach (Toccata and Fuga)
7: Rachmaninov, Ravel, Mendelssohn... etc.

[comme_le_vent]

allchopin, i hope you arent refering to the alkan and godowsky works, which are pure genius - and worth all the effort.

[Beet9]

Well, for beginners, probably a few of the Bach inventions, to help build technique.  Beethoven bagatelles,  the annoying Mozart sonata in C (the easier one),  Rachmaninoff prelude in c# minor.  But skip fur elise, cause it's just plain ANNOYING!!

[newsgroupeuan]

The most influential stuff on my technique (so far)

In order of difficulty:

Mozart Sonata C (the annoying one)
Bach 2 part Invention XIII
Beethoven Sonata "Moonlight" Mvmt I
Debussy - Children's Corner
WTC BkI - Prelude + Fugue II
Liszt Trancendal Etude I
Buch-Busoni Tocatta Bwv 565 (can't play the fugue!!!! lol)

Hope this is of use,
Euan