Questions in two Chopin scores

[aaron_ginn]

Generally, I can read music, but I'm a little confused by a couple of things in two Chopin scores I've been playing around with.  First, in the Op. 10 No. 1 Etude in C, the very first measure contains a left-hand octave in C held for eight beats; however, the first note in the right hand is the 1/16 note played on the same note after a 1/16 rest.  How do you play that C in the RH if you're already holding it in the LH?  Is it simply written so that your hand starts out playing the full C arpeggio?  Is it not actually audible in the RH?  I don't get it.

My next question concerns the Op. 64 No. 2 Waltz in C# minor.  In measure three in the RH, there are two accidentals on the F, first a natural followed immediately by a sharp.  What does this mean, and which of the two takes precedence here?  In the previous measure, F has a double-sharp.  Is the natural there simply to cancel out the double sharp and make sure I don't interpret it as a triple-sharp?  That seems unnecessary as an accidental only is in effect for a single measure.

TIA.

[ramseytheii]

Generally, I can read music, but I'm a little confused by a couple of things in two Chopin scores I've been playing around with.  First, in the Op. 10 No. 1 Etude in C, the very first measure contains a left-hand octave in C held for eight beats; however, the first note in the right hand is the 1/16 note played on the same note after a 1/16 rest.  How do you play that C in the RH if you're already holding it in the LH?  Is it simply written so that your hand starts out playing the full C arpeggio?  Is it not actually audible in the RH?  I don't get it.

My next question concerns the Op. 64 No. 2 Waltz in C# minor.  In measure three in the RH, there are two accidentals on the F, first a natural followed immediately by a sharp.  What does this mean, and which of the two takes precedence here?  In the previous measure, F has a double-sharp.  Is the natural there simply to cancel out the double sharp and make sure I don't interpret it as a triple-sharp?  That seems unnecessary as an accidental only is in effect for a single measure.

TIA.

In the Waltz: it used to be convention to use the natural sign for cancelling one accidental, even if another applied.  You might see in old scores, if key signatures change from flats to sharps, they actually put naturals for all of the flats in the new key signature, in addition to the sharps.  These days we just say "natural" or "accidental" whatever that may be.  The natural cancels out the first sharp of the double sharp, and the sharp applies.

In the Etude:  the octave has to sound together and be held in the pedal, then you start trhe RH sixteenths, after releasing the LH thumb very quickly, then hold that C down with your LH as the RH continues upwards.

Walter Ramsey

[aaron_ginn]

The natural cancels out the first sharp of the double sharp, and the sharp applies.

So are you saying the natural only cancels the FIRST sharp and not both?  In other words should the note by played as simply F# or should I play a G?  Your reply indicates that the natural does not cancel out both sharps of the double sharp.

Thanks.

[ramseytheii]

So are you saying the natural only cancels the FIRST sharp and not both?  In other words should the note by played as simply F# or should I play a G?  Your reply indicates that the natural does not cancel out both sharps of the double sharp.

Thanks.

It only cancels out the first sharp, since there is a nother sharp written after the natural!

Walter Ramsey