How do you all record pieces so clearly????

[kevin2006]

I have seen people post these on the forum before, but I can't find it now. So I am asking: How do you all record pieces with no background sound? Can some1 tell me? Thank you very much.

[prongated]

...I think it's safe to assume that ppl post their own playing here...

So anyway, I just worry about the piano playing. When I'm ready, I simply get a friend who's studied some sound tech and has the equipment to record my stuff.

That said: definitely not recorded with brand-X mics

[didier_brest]

You need at least
- A pair of condenser mikes. I am using Oktava MK-012 : they are excellent for their price (about 300 € for two in France). An alternative at the same price is Rode NT5.
- An audio interface for PC with integrated preamps and 48 V phantom alimentation required by the mikes. I have an Edirol FA-66, about 300 € in France. I am quite happy with it but, according to some infomation got on the web, the Focusrite Saffire LE, about the same price, has better preamps (which is most important).
- A pair of mike stands and cables, less than 100 €.
- A PC, which you may already have,
- A free recording software, Audacity is OK.

With an electric piano, it's easier. You may connect your piano directly to the audio input of your PC and record it by means of Audacity.


Hope than this can help you.

[Kassaa]

Or give a recital somewhere where they record your stuff 0_o . That's how I get my good recordings anyway.

[tds]

Re: How do you all record pieces so clearly?

hmm, no. my recordings suck.

[tompilk]

what's the benefit of two mics? is it just stereo?
Thanks,
tom

[lazlo]

you don't really need two unless you want to make a professional quality recording. Which is all good and well in theory, but expensive.

[didier_brest]

The piano has a very rich sound radiation with a complicated spatial distribution at short distance . Two mics at different locations  (typically 1 m apart) close to the instrument capture  a richer sound than a single one. A single mic must be put at a larger distance from the piano where the sound field is more homogeneous. But then you get more reverberation from the room (the undirect sound due to reflections on the walls), which gives a less accurate sound.

[marik]

The piano has a very rich sound radiation with a complicated spatial distribution at short distance . Two mics at different locations  (typically 1 m apart) close to the instrument capture  a richer sound than a single one. A single mic must be put at a larger distance from the piano where the sound field is more homogeneous. But then you get more reverberation from the room (the undirect sound due to reflections on the walls), which gives a less accurate sound.

It is right that for classical recording the microphones should be placed at more distance (about 6-9') from the open lid. I'd avoid using a single microphone, as it would be only a mono recording, which loses any sense of dimention of space.
 
I am not sure where you got that "typical figure of 1m apart", as this would very much depend on what kind of mics, and stereo techiniques you are using.

Here is a good educational site on recording:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

Make sure to check Microphone university/Stereo techniques and Application quide.

Please let me know if you have any questions, lately I make my living recording piano.

[didier_brest]

A-B is better than coincident technique (XY, Blumlein, MS, ORTF ...)  for miking piano at short distance (< 2 m) . I said 1 m as a typical figure : it means somewhere between 40 cm, the minimum for AB like here and 1.5 m, the distance you get if you put the mics at both ends over an upright piano. 

[marik]

A-B is better than coincident technique (XY, Blumlein, MS, ORTF ...)  for miking piano at short distance (< 2 m) . I said 1 m as a typical figure : it means somewhere between 40 cm, the minimum for AB like here and 1.5 m, the distance you get if you put the mics at both ends over an upright piano. 

For recording piano there is no "better" or worse technique. Every particular situation needs its own miking and I would not say A-B is preferable over Blumlein or MS. For example, if you have a pair of omnies and there is no much noise from air conditioning, or hall noises, than Jecklin disk would be far more superior than A-B. On the other hand Blumlein might be also a good choice if you have a pair of fig8 mics (ribbons, for example).

MS is another good way of recording piano if you have right microphones and it sounds good for a particular hall or repertoire.

In any case, everything depends on particular situation. If you have a lot of background noises, than in fact, ORTF or NOS would be the way to go.

The distance betweein mics and open lid usually is at least 6'.

Best, M

[Bob]

What are all these setups?  A-B, Blumlein, MS, etc.?  Can someone give a simple, layperson explanation?  Thanks!

[marik]

What are all these setups?  A-B, Blumlein, MS, etc.?  Can someone give a simple, layperson explanation?  Thanks!

Have a look here:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=131

[Bob]

Dang.  The link isn't working.  Even when shortened.

[cjp_piano]

Uh, so . . . back to English . . .

For someone like me who doesn't know much about all that and doesn't have a huge budget to buy all this equipment and/or hire someone, what would be an easier way that would still produce a quality sound? 

Or is there such thing?

[cygnusdei]

I have been considering this

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YLDZA/

It is a battery powered stereo condenser mic so no phantom power/preamp is required. In principle you can plug this directly into the audio-in jack on a laptop or camcorder.

Anyone care to burst my bubble?

[quantum]

Dang.  The link isn't working.  Even when shortened.

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

I have been considering this

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YLDZA/

It is a battery powered stereo condenser mic so no phantom power/preamp is required. In principle you can plug this directly into the audio-in jack on a laptop or camcorder.

Anyone care to burst my bubble?

This mic goes down to only 100 Hz.  The lowest note on the piano is roughly 27 Hz. 

Uh, so . . . back to English . . .

For someone like me who doesn't know much about all that and doesn't have a huge budget to buy all this equipment and/or hire someone, what would be an easier way that would still produce a quality sound? 

Or is there such thing?

You could get a stereo mic, but they tend to be pricier.  Two seperate condensers will give you flexibility.  You will also learn a lot about recording from just experimenting with mic positions. 

Don't worry about the lingo too much at this point.  It's like taking about all the different kinds of apples there are to a person that has never seen an apple.  It will all start to make sense once you get some mics and start experimenting. 

[marik]

Dang.  The link isn't working.  Even when shortened.

It is back now.

I have been considering this

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YLDZA/

It is a battery powered stereo condenser mic so no phantom power/preamp is required. In principle you can plug this directly into the audio-in jack on a laptop or camcorder.

These mics (or similar) were intended primarily for camcorder use. Besides limited frequency response they have pretty high noise, limited stereo effect, and low SPL (i.e. they will distort easily on loud notes and passages).

Best, M

[didier_brest]

I have been considering this

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YLDZA/

Well, if you have to cope within this budget, it may be the best solution. But do not expect to get the same quality like the best one that you can encounter on the forum. Because it is a X-Y mic, you should record at some distance from the piano (1.5 m at least ?). I don't think that in these consditions, the sound level could be too high (except may be if your piano is a concert grand  ). The frequency response is not ideal but acceptable:
see here.
The announced signal-to-noise rate is 20 dB below the typical value for professional mics. You shoud ear noise but it will be still acceptable (anyway less noisy than some wonderful recordings from  1930-1950). You will be able to equalize by means of a PC software  for compensating the roll-off below 100 Hz  and the rise between 4 and 9 kHz (that I don't appreciate much on piano).

[stevetrug]

[..... Please let me know if you have any questions, lately I make my living recording piano.

Hi Marik,
I've just seen an ad for the Kawai PR-1, designed to record your piano performance direct to CD. It seems like a really neat, simple solution http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/Special/pr-1_db_review.html
Can you give me any advice regarding this please? It seems a little expensive.

[marik]

I've just seen an ad for the Kawai PR-1, designed to record your piano performance direct to CD. It seems like a really neat, simple solution http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/Special/pr-1_db_review.html
Can you give me any advice regarding this please? It seems a little expensive.

It seems that it is based around PZM (Pressure Zone Microphones). Works fine for jazz, pop, rooms with extremely bad acoustics, etc. Not for classic.

If it retails for almost $1600, it means the street price will be around $1100-$1300. You could have a similar system for MUCH cheaper.

[stevetrug]

Thanks for that advice, I'll look into alternative recording methods.