Liszt, Douze Grandes Etudes, anyone played them?

[sevencircles]

What do you think about these works?

Have you tried to learn them?

[thorn]

I've played Nr 1, 3, 6 and 11.

I personally like some of the Grand Etudes more than their Transcendental counterpart. Some of them are worth learning, others arent. To be honest, of the ones I've learned, nr 11 is the only one that is really worth it as it develops into a whole new section that isn't in 'Harmonies du Soir'.

I wouldnt bother learning ones like nr 4 and 5 though as it would be much more useful to just study Mazeppa or Feux Follets.

It's interesting to compare these with the Transcendentals and the Etude en 12 exercises though, just to see how they developed.

[thalbergmad]

Not all are worth the effort in my opinion as sometimes the musical content is less and the difficulties more.

I pitted my feeble abilities at the No10 for a while, which was the one i felt was considerably better than the latter version.

The whole lot needs to be recorded by one of our modern supervirtuosi, as the 2 recordings i have heard are rather unsatisfactory.

Thal

[dnephi]

A big benefit is to think about the interpretational directions given in the Grandes Etudes- you might well use them in the 1851. 

Personally, I find that the introduction in the Orchestral Version of the Mazeppa to be superior to the original.  When I learn #4 of the Transcendental Etudes, I plan to use a mixture of that introduction with the original.  I would present hte original chords, and, in place of the cadenza, I would play part of the Orchestral introduction.  The first 11 bars would be in parallel octaves with the left hand playing the countermelody.  Then I would play the right hand in detached octaves and counterpart in left hand legato octaves.  I would clothe in pianistic garb the next 15 or so measures.  At the FF, I would use a device Liszt himself used when he played Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy in staggered hands, then I would play some "blind" or "Liszt octaves" at the place which LIszt's orchestral score is unison, and then play diminished seventh arpeggios in both hands from the middle of the keyboard up to the top and take down from the top of the keyboard the last portion of the Etude's Cadenza and begin the first theme.  This obscures the tonic for longer, builds greater tension, and, I feel, makes for a better effect.

I would also put in (From the 1838 version) a hint of the melody of the place in the etude between strophe 4 and the second time the octave cadenza is presented - it is a very beautiful effect, hidden in mere rhythm in the 1851 version.  You should listen to it for that understanding alone.

What I'm trying to say is that I feel that you have the right to mix and match different parts of different versions of a piece, especially when it comes to Liszt.  Thus, looking at the 1838 versions, you might find some passages you like better.  I know of more than one person who would put in the presto feroce coda back into the 1851 version of the Etude in F Minor.

[sevencircles]

The whole lot needs to be recorded by one of our modern supervirtuosi, as the 2 recordings i have heard are rather unsatisfactory.

What recordings have your heard?

I have only heard Leslie Howard´s studio recording

[thalbergmad]

Janice Weber recorded them some years ago.

Thal

[pianoden]

I'm still waiting for someone to record these well.  So far Webber, Howard and Massimo Gon have recorded them and none of these recordings are really technically sound.  Too bad.  I remember when I first got my cd of Nikolai Petrov playing the orignal Paganini studies and thinking "I wish he could record the Grandes Etudes".  His playing of the Paganini's made you wonder why Liszt ever bothered to rewrite them ( and then you realize how difficult they are).  I hope Naxos gets it right with their entry into their complete cycle.