Scales technique ..

[alb-d]

Okay... today this Jazz player showed me away to make my scale runs faster, and have more clarity. But I find it a bit abnormal.

He had me lean to the right  (hands & and body) , then he had me tilt my hands a little. And do the opposite when comign down. Is this common?

[jlh]

Yes, assuming you're tilting your hands the proper direction and there is no tension.  When doing several octaves of scales, you must lean your body so that your arms can remain motionless.

[franzliszt2]

Use the elbows. If you move the elbows outwards (LH going up, RH coming down) look at the difference it makes to the passing of the thumb. Thats the key to fast scales.

[jlh]

I'd be careful about moving the elbows too much, and don't continuously move them for each hand shift.   

[franzliszt2]

sorry, I didn't mean move them, I just meant the actual position, the hand is slightly displaced throughout the scale, but not enough to effect it at all. It's a hard thng to describe, but it would make so much sense if I showed you. Obviously the worst thing to do is the flick the elbow every thumb pass. But if the elbow is always slightly out and VERY relaxed, the thumb just goes over, and the elbow makes it less distance.

[jlh]

Question for you: would your arm be more relaxed if it were not holding your elbow in position?

just a question... 

[pianowelsh]

Think typewriter carraige!!

[alb-d]

Could someone post a photo of the proper hand position? plz

[counterpoint]

Use the elbows.

but only for the fff - parts!!! 

[franzliszt2]

but only for the fff - parts!!! 

No you miss my point totally. The position of the elbows should be away from the body. Which free's up shoulders, and makes the passiong of the thumb a lot easier. Playing fro the shoulders gives you a huge dynamic range, including the softest pppp.

Read Cortot, I think  it's called aspects on piano playing. That talks about hand position etc... It's very good. Theres a whole chapter on this matter.

[counterpoint]

No you miss my point totally.

No you miss my point as much 

[franzliszt2]

 

[ramseytheii]

No you miss my point totally. The position of the elbows should be away from the body. Which free's up shoulders, and makes the passiong of the thumb a lot easier. Playing fro the shoulders gives you a huge dynamic range, including the softest pppp.

Read Cortot, I think  it's called aspects on piano playing. That talks about hand position etc... It's very good. Theres a whole chapter on this matter.

You're right in the sense that some people get stuck pointing their elbows inside, and don't let them "breathe" as a teacher once said to me.  It's helpful for me to think in terms of Alexander technque: elbows don't have a position but an "action," not posture but "acture." 

The elbows can help you manouever the keyboard by their natural action of clockwise or counter-clockwise motion.  The motion can be subtle if needed, or for fast, wide jumps, it can be a rather sharp movement.  I'd say from my own experience as a teacher that one of the most common problems is students trying to do everything from their fingers alone, and not realizing how the elbows can propel them across a keyboard.

Walter Ramsey

[jlh]

...elbows, wrists, arms, back... they're all links in the chain of piano technique.  You're right Walter, it's a shame a lot of students try to play everything using only the fingers.  That's not good for your tendons and it will only produce a shallow, unmusical sound. 

One of my teachers once said that you need to get a "notion for the motion".  Everything you do on a piano has a proper motion, and your body should not be static in trying to accomplish what your fingers are playing.

The tricky part is that in order to use your body efficiently it needs to be free of tension, otherwise it doesn't matter what motion you do.