Technique Improvement

[invictious]

I admit it, my level of technique is equivalent to an anteater. I can't even play Fur Elise B section, nor can I play Turkish March properly. I have played for 4 years (took 1.5 years off to develop musicality), and I am taking DipABRSM. I realized that DipABRSM has a high technical requirement, which I severely lack. I can sight-read pretty well, but my technique is junk.

I am worried about the examination, which is 7 months away. I am worrying already because my technique, honestly, is just..laughable for a person who has played piano for 4 years.

My repertoire consists of:
Bach - Toccata No.5 in E minor BWV 914
Beethoven - Pathetique (I am cooler in real life! Honest!  )
Bartok - 6 Dances in Bulgarian Rhythm (yes, ALL of them, call me crazy)

I need to improve my technique, but I don't know where to begin. I was wondering if anyone here can guide me? I don't want to bruteforce until I get everything right, because I know it will backfire sooner or later.

Anyone? No, no Hanon or Czerny, please.

[thalberg]

Get an anatomy book and study the muscles of the hands and arms.  I did that and it was great.

Also read Seymour Finks' book "Mastering Piano Technique." 

That will help.  Just my two cents.

[opus10no2]

(took 1.5 years off to develop musicality),

HAHA whetefoo? 

[counterpoint]

Get an anatomy book

 

I'm a bit shocked, that the advice with the anatomy book comes from my great idol thalberg. Perhaps the anatomy will help in a sense I can't see... 

But my advice would be just the opposite: don't waste your time with work on muscles and movement, but open your ears to the sound of your playing. Slow practise and observant listening helps so much to get rid of "technical" problems, which in most cases are problems of musical awareness and understanding.

[cloches_de_geneve]

Chopin Etudes: 25/2, 10/5, 10/7, 25/8, 10/8, 10/10, 25/6, 10/1, 10/2, 25/11

In exactly that order, one by one, studying them seriously. Give it two years.

[ramseytheii]

I'm a bit shocked, that the advice with the anatomy book comes from my great idol thalberg. Perhaps the anatomy will help in a sense I can't see... 

But my advice would be just the opposite: don't waste your time with work on muscles and movement, but open your ears to the sound of your playing. Slow practise and observant listening helps so much to get rid of "technical" problems, which in most cases are problems of musical awareness and understanding.

Bravo!

Or, in some cases are problems of over-thinking technique.

Walter Ramsey

[rc]

Bravo!

Or, in some cases are problems of over-thinking technique.

Many methinks.  Simplicity is what we want.  I tried those anatomy books and such, worked on some of the Fink exercises but never got very far through the book.  I don't think they helped much.  To simplify what I learned from anatomy besides some neat terms:  if there's discomfort, change how you're doing it.  The principle of ease.  To some this may mean purging habits of tension bit by bit until all is free.

So far the process that's working for me is to listen as counterpoint said, and when I find something that could be improved I isolate it and experiment until I find a way to make it sound and feel right then practice it into consistancy.  Onto the next problem.

I also think that while perfection is a good ideal, if my execution isn't entirely perfect it's ok with me so long as it's an improvement.  The first turn I learn doesn't have to be perfect, chances are my tastes will change over time anyways and the fact is that I only have so much patience.  It seems to me that many have this fear if imperfection, as if we can't modify and improve things at a later stage.  This may just be my personal sanity-saving device though

[invictious]

Bernhard once said that good technique means execution feels easy. The problem is, nothing feels easy. Those rapid scales and broken chords feel difficult and I can little control over the notes.
This makes my very depressed!

Thanks for the Chopin etudes suggestions, I think I will pick up a few.

Any more suggestions?

[rimv2]

Bernhard once said that good technique means execution feels easy. The problem is, nothing feels easy. Those rapid scales and broken chords feel difficult and I can little control over the notes.
This makes my very depressed!

Thanks for the Chopin etudes suggestions, I think I will pick up a few.

Any more suggestions?

The rapid scale feel difficult because you are playing faster than you can mentally process. It's easy to execute with speed. But to process and adjust takes time and practice.

Practice fast, slow, extremely slow, etc, whatever. Make sure you are always playing the sound in your head before you try to play. Otherwise there is no way to adjust. You'll play several notes after the mistake and attempt to adjust without knowing what you are actually adjusting to. You will be forever thrown off.

[opus10no2]

Learn the difference between pain and fatigue.

And learn to know what fatigue is good, and what fatigue isn't.

[invictious]

I don't suffer from pain while playing piano because I know what to do, but it's just my fingers don't like to play scales. Making them move is just..meh
I think I can mentally process it faster than my fingers, but the scales are just..uneven and sloppy!

Technique, sigh.

[opus10no2]

Yeah, but, in my case anyway, I play fast, and my fingers get tired.

Through time they get a little less tired, and go a little faster.

Thing you have to be careful of is getting other things tired before the fingers, by unwanted tension.

[marik]

I am worried about the examination, which is 7 months away. I am worrying already because my technique, honestly, is just..laughable for a person who has played piano for 4 years...


...I need to improve my technique, but I don't know where to begin. I was wondering if anyone here can guide me? I don't want to bruteforce until I get everything right, because I know it will backfire sooner or later.

First, why would you worry about the examination? Is it gonna affect your GPA, or is some kind of stupid examination gonna be the end of the world?

Second, if you really want to improve your technique, I am afraid the internet would be a wrong place. Also, I don't know a one single book which would tell you how to do it.
The only good way to do it would be to find a good teacher. Ain't cheap, but luxury costs.
I wish I knew a better solution.

Best, M

[invictious]

I have a teacher, but she doesn't really tell me how to improve technique or whatever.
The examination of course will be the end of the world!

[marik]

I have a teacher, but she doesn't really tell me how to improve technique or whatever.

So what are you paying for to this teacher? 

[jlh]

So what are you paying for to this teacher? 

Agreed... sounds like a waste of money if the teacher is not telling you how to improve.

[richard black]

Hang on a minute - you're planning to do the DipABRSM after FOUR YEARS of piano playing? Look, that's generally regarded as the easiest diploma in the UK but most people will have done more like 10 years before attempting it. If what you say about Für Elise is true, your standard of playing is more like Grade 4 - the Dip is effectively Grade 9. Sounds as if your teacher is limited use - have you sought advice from other professional musicians?

[counterpoint]

Practice fast, slow, extremely slow, etc, whatever. Make sure you are always playing the sound in your head before you try to play. Otherwise there is no way to adjust.

There is no way to "adjust" in any way 

If the note is played - too early, too late, too loud, wrong note, wrong finger etc. - you cannot "adjust" it anymore.

The only way to take profit of your mistakes is to

1. find them!
2. change your playing!

If you know what is wrong, you can easily change it.

[opus10no2]

Monehz....

Why should money be required for a talent to flower?

I, personally, feel that teachers should teach for free.

Liszt did it, and if you charge monehz, you are arrogantly implying that you are greater than Liszt.

[ramseytheii]

Monehz....

Why should money be required for a talent to flower?

I, personally, feel that teachers should teach for free.

Liszt did it, and if you charge monehz, you are arrogantly implying that you are greater than Liszt.

If teaching should be free, than by charging you are implying you are less than those who do it right?

Walter Ramsey

[rc]

That's nuts...  Teachers need money because they have bills to pay and families to feed.

[opus10no2]

Because they weren't good enough to make it as a performer? 

[rc]

Because pianists aren't the same rockstars they were in the 19th c.

[opus10no2]

I think it's fair to say that Lang Lang is at least as famous as Liszt was.

10000000s of chinese peopls alone surely know about him.

[jazzyprof]

I think I can mentally process it faster than my fingers, but the scales are just..uneven and sloppy!

Technique, sigh.

If your scales are uneven and sloppy then you have a problem with timing and touch.  First get yourself a metronome and become very good friends with it.  One way to develop a good sense of time and also to speed up your scales is to start off very, very slowly.  Try this exercise with the metronome set at, say 40 or 50 bpm.  
(1) Play the C major scale, both hands, one octave apart, 4 octaves up and down at 4 BEATS per note.  Yes, this is going to be painfully slow.  Do it anyway and listen to each note, making sure each has the same volume.
(2) Repeat the scale, this time at 2 BEATS per note.
(3) Repeat the scale at 1 BEAT per note.
(4) Repeat the scale at 2 NOTES per beat.
(5) Repeat the scale at 3 NOTES per beat, 6 octaves up and down.
(6) Repeat the scale at 4 NOTES per beat, 4 octaves up and down.
(7) Repeat the scale at 5 NOTES per beat, 5 octaves up and down.
( Repeat the scale at 6 NOTES per beat, 6 octaves up and down.
(9) Repeat the scale at 7 NOTES per beat, 4 octaves up and down.

Do this for each of your scales (perhaps one or two scales a day) and in a few weeks your scales will be fast and even.

[rc]

I think it's fair to say that Lang Lang is at least as famous as Liszt was.

10000000s of chinese peopls alone surely know about him.

Ok then

The only pianists I remember reading about who were well off and generous enough to give free lessons were Liszt and Arrau (and Arrau did it because he had a teacher who did it for him).  Just how common was free teaching historically?

[cloches_de_geneve]

Ok then
 Just how common was free teaching historically?

Probably not too common.

Chopin cashed in huge amounts of money from teaching aristocratic and wealthy young ladies. Someone has tried to covert what he charged at the time into current-day fees and concluded it was a fairly astronomical sum, certainly > USD 500 / per lesson.  But those were "standard" individual lessons.

Liszt's later lessons were totally different, more like master classes. Twenty poeple or more would gather in his house and the great, white-haired master would tell someone to perform a given piece (usually very advanced stuff). He never gave technical advice - that was below his dignity. Whoever did not already have a great, polished technique was basically sent home and his comments would be pretty cynical, like "Wash your dirty laundry at home"!

Because anybody could attend these lessons (the door of the house being open) several "participants" just stood there at the margins of the crowd and never played a single note. Still -- these "watchers" would then go around bragging that they had been Liszt's pupils, charging hefty fees one these grounds!

There is a book by August Goellerich (a participant to those lessons himself), in which Liszt's lessons are documented in some detail. The book is of value, because Liszt often made remarks about how his own music should be played.

[rc]

Probably not too common.

That's what I figure too.  Though I've heard of plenty of teachers who will give discounted lessons if a student can't afford the regular price and is deserving. 

My teacher would often stretch the schedule a bit and give extra time if needed.  I also went to a few free masterclasses, which was great!  but the teacher for those was still getting paid by the teachers association.  People ought to get paid for their services.

There is a book by August Goellerich (a participant to those lessons himself), in which Liszt's lessons are documented in some detail. The book is of value, because Liszt often made remarks about how his own music should be played.

Thanks, I will use this when the time comes

[invictious]

Ungh. I think I will go back to practicing scales and arpeggios.

[rimv2]

There is no way to "adjust" in any way 

If the note is played - too early, too late, too loud, wrong note, wrong finger etc. - you cannot "adjust" it anymore.

The only way to take profit of your mistakes is to

1. find them!
2. change your playing!

If you know what is wrong, you can easily change it.

By adjust, I mean orient yourself. As opposed to falling apart.