A strange and shocking trend!

[rimv2]

I've noticed a trend on this board. And many others. Have any of you seen it? Do you know what I'm talking about?

I'll spill it then. Better yet I'll give you a hint and see if you can catch the pattern.

Here it goes:

Topic: Who has the greatest technique of all?          - Replies 172

Topic: How to execute third bar of Prokofiev Sonata - Replies 2 (and sometime none)

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

Let me guess. The trend is that very few on the forum actually know what they are talking about and know very few about music in general. The "most difficult" threads signify that, as the question is childlike and cannot be successfully answered. The "how to play that particular measure" threads are also signifying of immaturity, because if one cannot handle a bar from a very advanced work, one shouldn't attempt the work at all at the moment.

[rimv2]

Greetings

Let me guess. The trend is that very few on the forum actually know what they are talking about and know very few about music in general. The "most difficult" threads signify that, as the question is childlike and cannot be successfully answered. The "how to play that particular measure" threads are also signifying of immaturity, because if one cannot handle a bar from a very advanced work, one shouldn't attempt the work at all at the moment.

Hmmm. Not... exactly...

Do you actually believe what you just typed?

[debussy symbolism]

Hmmm. Not... exactly...

Do you actually believe what you just typed?

If someone attempts a very challenging work, then he wouldn't have such obvious questions like that because he will most likely have the experience in tackling them. A beginner asking how to challenge a particular bar is one thing, but a person with lots of experience should rely on himself.

May I try again? Seeing as how the "who is the best" type of thread gets the most posts, and a thread asking for specifics gets less, I assume that because of the volume or responces, very few of them are actually worthy, with most being just guesses. However the threads asking for specifics get really low number of votes, signifying that perhaps there are alot less people to give advice, that advice is most likely truthful, as it would be illogical for other people to just guess at an answer, whereas it is easy to guess at "what is the best."

[opus10no2]

I find talking to idiots valuable and rewarding, and not in the least bit ego-boosting.

[debussy symbolism]

I find talking to idiots valuable and rewarding, and not in the least bit ego-boosting.

Opus, sorry to intrude upon private matters here, but perhaps the reason for your post is because of your past, about which I have read in another thread, incindentally started by you. Do you feel empowered to talk to those people because you had no real friends as a child and was uncomfortable around peers who didn't accept you, and that you find confidence in communicating with those that can't oppress you due to mental limitations? This is just a venture into psychology and I don't want to embark on sensitive matters.

[prongated]

I find talking to idiots valuable and rewarding, and not in the least bit ego-boosting.

...not saying anything about you in particular, but of course, if you want to be condescending, you'd perhaps like to ensure irony doesn't hit back...hard

If someone attempts a very challenging work, then he wouldn't have such obvious questions like that because he will most likely have the experience in tackling them. A beginner asking how to challenge a particular bar is one thing, but a person with lots of experience should rely on himself.

...nonetheless, sometimes people attempt these works for particular purposes in mind - for example, improving their technique. If what you say is true, then we don't really need teachers at advanced levels (e.g. university/conservatory). I think the fact they're still around says something about your proposition - or possibly also the quality of students at universities/conservatories.

[debussy symbolism]

...nonetheless, sometimes people attempt these works for particular purposes in mind - for example, improving their technique. If what you say is true, then we don't really need teachers at advanced levels (e.g. university/conservatory). I think the fact they're still around says something about your proposition - or possibly also the quality of students at universities/conservatories.

Attempting pieces for the sole purpose of acquiring technique is crucial, and if it is crucial one must follow good advice. Some of the advice offered here is far from correct, is ambigious, and furthermore, comes from sources that you do not know and may not trust. I have read on other piano related site that some members like to come here just to spread disinformation as to fingering. They purposely spread wrong information for the sakes of their enjoyment and ego. Are these the sources you trust? On the contrary, I am saying that we need to work with our own head and not always rely on people who you do not know or trust. If those teachers are present, then the student shouldn't be asking questions such as the ones stated above.

[opus10no2]

You could be right about the pshychological stuff, but the meaning behind my post is simple.

I form a better understanding of my own views, and especially how to express them lucidly, by discussing with the people I jokingly called 'idiots'.

I only get bored when there's nothing left to learn and nothing to stimulate, and while most people stick to their old habits, I still enjoy the 'best technique' and 'hardest pieces' threads.
After all, it it through reflecting upon them that I found my own views.

[rimv2]

If someone attempts a very challenging work, then he wouldn't have such obvious questions like that because he will most likely have the experience in tackling them. A beginner asking how to challenge a particular bar is one thing, but a person with lots of experience should rely on himself.

May I try again? Seeing as how the "who is the best" type of thread gets the most posts, and a thread asking for specifics gets less, I assume that because of the volume or responces, very few of them are actually worthy, with most being just guesses. However the threads asking for specifics get really low number of votes, signifying that perhaps there are alot less people to give advice, that advice is most likely truthful, as it would be illogical for other people to just guess at an answer, whereas it is easy to guess at "what is the best."

Opus, sorry to intrude upon private matters here, but perhaps the reason for your post is because of your past, about which I have read in another thread, incindentally started by you. Do you feel empowered to talk to those people because you had no real friends as a child and was uncomfortable around peers who didn't accept you, and that you find confidence in communicating with those that can't oppress you due to mental limitations? This is just a venture into psychology and I don't want to embark on sensitive matters.

Attempting pieces for the sole purpose of acquiring technique is crucial, and if it is crucial one must follow good advice. Some of the advice offered here is far from correct, is ambigious, and furthermore, comes from sources that you do not know and may not trust. I have read on other piano related site that some members like to come here just to spread disinformation as to fingering. They purposely spread wrong information for the sakes of their enjoyment and ego. Are these the sources you trust? On the contrary, I am saying that we need to work with our own head and not always rely on people who you do not know or trust. If those teachers are present, then the student shouldn't be asking questions such as the ones stated above.

Shorter sentences please.

Let's all take a step back. The pattern I noticed was purely mathematical. You seem to have caught the pattern. You also seem to have taken it a step further; analyzed it; attempted to find the logic behind it.

If we must discuss anything it's the fact that these questions aren't really being answered. This notion is made apparent by the vast amount of posts with little or no replies.

[sharon_f]

I've posted very specific questions in the past regarding pedaling, fingering, etc. and have gotten very few, or sometimes, no responses. I always figured that was because people hadn't played the piece.

[counterpoint]

Topic: Who has the greatest technique of all?          - Replies 172

Topic: How to execute third bar of Prokofiev Sonata - Replies 2 (and sometime none)

The dumber the question - the more answers 

[pianistimo]

let me see that third bar.  i don't have the score.  is it in three staves or something.  shut your eyes and pound something out.  (perhaps this goes under 'banging the piano')

[sharon_f]

let me see that third bar.  i don't have the score.  is it in three staves or something.  shut your eyes and pound something out.  (perhaps this goes under 'banging the piano')

I don't understand what your response is supposed to mean. Can you clarify.

[pianistimo]

the prokofiev toccata is the only prokofiev i see on the forum's sheet music list.  can i see the third bar of the sonata, somebody? (and which sonata are we referring to?)

if it is troglodyte's question - there are about six replies.  hmmm.  i answered the one about the fingering to rach prelude opus 23 #2.  perhaps fingerings are secret things and nobody wants to give them out?  frankly, i don't care and think that most people are at least 30 miles away from where i am anyways - so why should i care if they are using my fingering.  i feel like i am getting good sheet music - so it's a bit of give and take here.

acknowledging that fingering is only the start of the technical process - but an important one to the rest of what you do.

argh.  now i am wondering if this is not the reply that you are seeking sharon.  ok.  i played a prokofiev concerto a loooong time ago - and all i remember doing was banging.

[jlh]

The dumber the question - the more answers 

Not just that -- albeit dumb questions get a lot of answers -- but the first question is so general and subjective that everyone may have a different opinion as to the correct answer.  When these opinions are stated, everyone argues about them.  That's why the general questions get more replies.

The second question is very specific, requiring only a few replies to get an answer that is satisfactory.  These tend not to get too controversial, hence the fewer replies.

 

[rob47]

i just played prok 3rd sonata and am assuming the question is about fitting the hands together; i think the left hand triplets all tho barely heard should always be in the back of your mind like the guy who drums on those long boats and everyone paddles too. then just fit the rh on top once up to speed it is barely discernible that the melody is not in fact leading into the next bar on the final note of the triplet in 12/8 but instead the final sixteenth in a 4/4 measure

this is potentially ridiculous advice

[rimv2]

Not just that -- albeit dumb questions get a lot of answers -- but the first question is so general and subjective that everyone may have a different opinion as to the correct answer.  When these opinions are stated, everyone argues about them.  That's why the general questions get more replies.

The second question is very specific, requiring only a few replies to get an answer that is satisfactory.  These tend not to get too controversial, hence the fewer replies.

 

Check the zeros mate

[themockingbird]

Greetings

Let me guess. The trend is that very few on the forum actually know what they are talking about and know very few about music in general. The "most difficult" threads signify that, as the question is childlike and cannot be successfully answered. The "how to play that particular measure" threads are also signifying of immaturity, because if one cannot handle a bar from a very advanced work, one shouldn't attempt the work at all at the moment.

I think that's a bit harsh.

One thing I have noticed about this board since I joined is how competitive, and well, bitchy, it can be. I am disappointed. Telling people they 'shouldn't' try something just because it is perhaps out of their range isn't much fun. Yes, we all want to be better pianists, and the best way to go about that isn't necessarily by just trying to play 'hard' stuff, but what if we want to try and play it for the pure and simple reason that we like it, even if it is too difficult?

and if someone has trouble playing just one bar out of a whole piece then that's hardly any reason to suggest that they shouldn't attempt it at all. how ridiculous. and as for people on this board not being 'qualified' to give advice, what is wrong with discussion? i remember my old psychology teacher saying that class discussion is a great way to bounce ideas off people, you just have to be careful about being too hasty to come to conclusions because of the group's limited knowledge. just because a person asks for advice doesn't mean that they are going to take that advice as gospel. otherwise this forum just might as well not exist.

[mknueven]

Even a dummy like me can tell that's all wrong..
If you view a question as "childlike" - what do you view your inability to answer it?
Since all measures of music are getting our hands to go into different patterns - what is wrong with asking for advice?  The way I look at music - there are many different techniques, slight alterations our hands need to make to play a different measure.  Some are more challenging than others' but everything is relative.
You have the smart ones and then you have the dummies like me - that are still learning the best ways.
  Re: A strange and shocking trend!
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 03:58:37 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings

Let me guess. The trend is that very few on the forum actually know what they are talking about and know very few about music in general. The "most difficult" threads signify that, as the question is childlike and cannot be successfully answered. The "how to play that particular measure" threads are also signifying of immaturity, because if one cannot handle a bar from a very advanced work, one shouldn't attempt the work at all at the moment.
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 
 

[rimv2]

I think that's a bit harsh.

One thing I have noticed about this board since I joined is how competitive, and well, bitchy, it can be. I am disappointed. Telling people they 'shouldn't' try something just because it is perhaps out of their range isn't much fun. Yes, we all want to be better pianists, and the best way to go about that isn't necessarily by just trying to play 'hard' stuff, but what if we want to try and play it for the pure and simple reason that we like it, even if it is too difficult?

and if someone has trouble playing just one bar out of a whole piece then that's hardly any reason to suggest that they shouldn't attempt it at all. how ridiculous. and as for people on this board not being 'qualified' to give advice, what is wrong with discussion? i remember my old psychology teacher saying that class discussion is a great way to bounce ideas off people, you just have to be careful about being too hasty to come to conclusions because of the group's limited knowledge. just because a person asks for advice doesn't mean that they are going to take that advice as gospel. otherwise this forum just might as well not exist.

 

There really is no such thing as "out of a range" in my eyes. I think it's all just a matter of time. The more you have to start the piece with the faster it should go.

However, even at an advanced level, it's still possible to learn something incorrectly and waste many hours of practice.

[debussy symbolism]

One thing I have noticed about this board since I joined is how competitive, and well, bitchy, it can be. I am disappointed. Telling people they 'shouldn't' try something just because it is perhaps out of their range isn't much fun. Yes, we all want to be better pianists, and the best way to go about that isn't necessarily by just trying to play 'hard' stuff, but what if we want to try and play it for the pure and simple reason that we like it, even if it is too difficult?

You are right in the sense that people really have no right to tell others what to do and what not to do. All is well, however, many beginners are inept in choosing what pieces they may work on and may end up choosing pieces that will not advance them because of the required skill which they do not yet possess. That will result in frustration and a lack of coherent progress, whereas a piece of easier difficulty will prove to be more manageable and ultimately usefull. People of expertise on this forum can direct to such pieces and save the beginner stress. If something is too difficult you won't like it. It will become tedious after some time and one will eventually drop it because of the lack of technique involved.

and if someone has trouble playing just one bar out of a whole piece then that's hardly any reason to suggest that they shouldn't attempt it at all. how ridiculous. and as for people on this board not being 'qualified' to give advice, what is wrong with discussion? i remember my old psychology teacher saying that class discussion is a great way to bounce ideas off people, you just have to be careful about being too hasty to come to conclusions because of the group's limited knowledge. just because a person asks for advice doesn't mean that they are going to take that advice as gospel. otherwise this forum just might as well not exist.

Let me clear this up. I suggested not that someone who is having difficulty with a bar to drop the piece, I claimed that whoever isn't capable of knowing how to study that one bar should be more wary of the piece. There is nothing wrong with not being able to play a bar of the piece, or even many bars. However, if one was to start a piece, one should know the challenges involved. If however you don't know how to handle that one bar, chances are you haven't had the experience with such technique involved and perhaps should look at pieces dealing with precicely that.

What good is discussion that contains guesses and wrong statements? Whether or not taking advice seriously, it is really up to the reader, who using media such as this should take everything with a grain of salt. However some readers will take everything seriously and will not be able to discern legible negative feed back from the legible and positive kind.