Is it morally unjust to perform like this in public?

[opus10no2]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OVC9ESsA3Go

Have your say.

[counterpoint]

For a fun performance there are way too many right notes 

[sharon_f]

For a fun performance there are way too many right notes 

And he should be wearing a really funny hat, too!
(Did that sound too much like pianistimo?)

[furtwaengler]

I guess it's more fun than this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QekMQ-2WYCY&mode=related&search=

[andhow04]

.

[hodi]

i'm surprised that the audience clapped at the end.
i would throw a grand piano on him.

[jlh]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OVC9ESsA3Go

Have your say.

Where's the music?  I only hear notes. 

[pianogeek_cz]

Agree with counterpoint's assumption, because I can't really afford the amount of ordnance that would make an adequate response to the other option.

And he should be wearing a really funny hat, too!
(Did that sound too much like pianistimo?)

*dies laughing* Not too much, I think.

[ganymed]

I voted for utterly abhorrent!

[zheer]

  Horrific.

[landru]

In the tradition of that old saying from everybody's mother: "If you can't say something nice about someone then don't say anything." And since I've already started this post by saying something, I might as well say something nice.

I did like the way that he never let any wrong notes, terrible dynamics, or nonexistent interpretation get in the way of his inexorable journey to the end of the piece.

And I think the clapping was purely that he was done and the noise had stopped.

Also, when I was watching (and hearing) his left hand, I was reminded of that old toy that had a monkey with hand-cymbals that never stopped once you wound him up? About the same control of dynamics as well. I didn't spot a key in his back, but that costume could have covered it up I guess.

Hmmm...looks like I let some not-so-nice things creep in there. Not that I can approach playing this or anything. And I am serious, I am in awe in the way he was not disturbed at all by all the mistakes.

[yuc4h]

I still think this is the best interp of ocean etude I have ever seen...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDY_jDVlWM8

[ramseytheii]

This fellow played equally badly in the Cleveland competiton, a completely incomprehensible Haydn sonata (which was not hard to play), and a wild, superlatively messy Petroushka.  I've never seen such on-stage fidgeting, but it didn't exactly have the effect he probably desired.

By the way, who dares to say there are no wrong notes in this performance?  Shame on you and your ears.

Walter Ramsey

[gerry]

Opus10: All the time she took getting settled, I thought she was going to play the John Cage piece where the performer comes out, sits, adjusts the bench, puts hands to keyboard for a few seconds, only to rise and leave the stage. Part of the tragedy here is that some "teacher" has actually convinced her that she was ready to present herself in public with a piece so far beyond her capabilities, and even worse, that anyone could lack the basic ability to hear and judge oneself to this degree. As for the audience--obviously sewing circle--proof that tin-ear is genetic. Indicdentally Furt - the 53 seconds of the Prelude was 43 seconds too many!!

[m]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OVC9ESsA3Go

Have your say.

Hey Opus,

Serious personal question:

Let's pretend and hypothetically assume that something absolutely impossible in the world went wrong and you were invited to judge a piano competition.
Let's say there was a "performance" like you just posted against something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM0jk4cDBm0

Who in your book would win, and why?

Objectively!!!
(like in the question you asked in your other thread?)

And please no personal feelings, considering Mei-Ting San blocked your email (even though I very much understand his reasons)

So, what do you say?

 

[cloches_de_geneve]

Why preferring the copy over the original? Cziffra used to play it at similar speed, and much better of course. Here is even a video of him playing it (btw. minute 4 and 5), but not as fast as in one of his recordings.

http://www.fr.youtube.com/watch?v=pf2accwGEaU

Still, even with the Cziffra version I have my reservations b/c this etude starts to sound strangely "chunky", that is, "chordish" at ultrafast speed levels and loses fluidity.

And, opus, your list lacks two important adjectives: narcissistic and monkish.

[opus10no2]

Marik, Mei-ting Sun is dead to me.

He simply does not exist.

[jlh]

Marik, Mei-ting Sun is dead to me.

He simply does not exist.

That's not objective... that's personal feelings. 

[prongated]

...is it just me, or has that video been time-shrunk, albeit slightly? Some of those movements are too jerky...

[opus10no2]

That's not objective... that's personal feelings. 

Maybe you'd understand if you knew him.

He is 'fashionably late' for every date, and then when he gets what he wants, he doesn't even call 

[term]

haha what??
He did that in front of an audience? Embarrassing!

[ramseytheii]

...is it just me, or has that video been time-shrunk, albeit slightly? Some of those movements are too jerky...

I saw this guy play live and the jerkiness is part and parcel of his performance.

Walter Ramsey

[pseudopianist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRY-2f8AHK4

this mildly enjoyable also. i lyk dat da OP vid n da Ocean etude r both played by da highly respectable Da Comme n Da Zepp from www.dasdc.net dey make me proud to b one of dem

[invictious]

Dat Ocean is da best version I have evah heard!

quite acurrate until 0.26 hehe

I am laughing so hard right now

HAHAHAHAHA

[faustsaccomplice]

Hey Opus,

Serious personal question:

Let's pretend and hypothetically assume that something absolutely impossible in the world went wrong and you were invited to judge a piano competition.
Let's say there was a "performance" like you just posted against something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM0jk4cDBm0

Who in your book would win, and why?

Objectively!!!
(like in the question you asked in your other thread?)

And please no personal feelings, considering Mei-Ting San blocked your email (even though I very much understand his reasons)

So, what do you say?

 

i'll answer for op10no2

the objective ruling is this: 1:28 v. 1:54

zepp wins

any other ruling will boil down to personal preference, which is therefore not objective...

unless you're the type who judges a performances based on wrong notes, which is anti-music

[jlh]

i'll answer for op10no2

the objective ruling is this: 1:28 v. 1:54

zepp wins

any other ruling will boil down to personal preference, which is therefore not objective...

unless you're the type who judges a performances based on wrong notes, which is anti-music

It is objective to say someone has sensitivity and plays a piece in the style and spirit in which it was composed.  It is subjective to say exactly what one has to do to achieve that goal.

Based on that, Sun wins hand down.  zepp does nothing but play loud, inaccurately and completely without sensitivity and control.  time does not matter.

The title of the vid should tell you something -- unleashing COLD fury?  It's definitely very cold and he looks like he's just raping the piano.  he has no creativity and there is not an artistic spark in that whole performance.  he's reduced the etude to a time and cold fury trial.   

[counterpoint]

Do we really discuss, if Mei-Ting Sun is a better pianist than the weirdo from the opening post...?        








I can't believe it 

[m]

Marik, Mei-ting Sun is dead to me.

He simply does not exist.

OK, forget MTS. How about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PaH2qHANSc

My question is the same, i.e. if you were judging an International Competition who in your book would win, and why?

[opus10no2]

Am I to speculate that Limp Dong would be capable of playing at the same tempo?

It's difficult to say, what use is mechanique without spirit?

One could say the same thing backwards, but since a high level of mechanique is on display on both, the spirited performance objectively wins the day, and the gold medal.

[soliloquy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRY-2f8AHK4

this mildly enjoyable also. i lyk dat da OP vid n da Ocean etude r both played by da highly respectable Da Comme n Da Zepp from www.dasdc.net dey make me proud to b one of dem

dayum :bren:

da rain of da ztorm haz zoaked mah pantiez, n da THUNDAH haz ravaged mah loins!

[counterpoint]

Am I to speculate that Limp Dong would be capable of playing at the same tempo?

Don't you hear, that 80% of the notes are wrong???

What does tempo help when the notes are wrong???

[pita bread]

Am I to speculate that Limp Dong would be capable of playing at the same tempo?

Zepp, get more than half the notes right. As of right now, I consider you to be playing at half tempo.

[faustsaccomplice]

this discussion is ridiculous

this is clearly a legendary performance in so many ways

there is hardly a better performance available anywhere

this has: speed, fury, cold fury, piano-rape, abandon, balls, ball sweat, and above all, a refined musicianship that is not in either the Sun or Lim-Dong, who are merely obsessed with getting the notes right. 

i'll take 80% of the notes with meaning behind them over 100% that say nothing any day

[m]

Am I to speculate that Limp Dong would be capable of playing at the same tempo?

It's difficult to say, what use is mechanique without spirit?

One could say the same thing backwards, but since a high level of mechanique is on display on both, the spirited performance objectively wins the day, and the gold medal.

You did not answer the question: WHO?
i.e. could you write only one name.

[jlh]

this discussion is ridiculous

I agree

this is clearly a legendary performance in so many ways

Infamous for sure, legendary-- not in any positive way.

there is hardly a better performance available anywhere

Don't get out much, eh?

this has: speed, fury, cold fury, piano-rape, abandon, balls, ball sweat,

Agreed, but where did Chopin mention that his first etude should be played like a pregnant dog raping a ***?

and above all, a refined musicianship that is not in either the Sun or Lim-Dong, who are merely obsessed with getting the notes right. 

There is NO musicianship in this performance.  Not one ounce..  You can't just make something loud and fast and expect it to work.  Yes it's fast, and yes it's loud and yes if you like this performance you're retarded.

i'll take 80% of the notes with meaning behind them over 100% that say nothing any day

Your words are against you.  zepp says nothing but rape, while Marik's other vids have passion and poetry.  They say more in the beginning LH octave than the zepp says in 100% of the notes.

[faustsaccomplice]

my words are against nobody except these immature performers like lim-dong and sun, who can't see past the beauty of the first note, and get into the piece as a whole.

think of it this way:
 what have lim-dong and sun aimed for?  beauty, poetry, passion?  they are outdone by cortot, rubinstein, cziffra, richter, etc.  so as a contest, they have failed to their predecessors. 

zepp, on the other hand, aims for ruthless gorilla-rape upon the piano.  it is an unprecedented undertaking in that even performances of the masters of fury, such as cziffra and richter, are marred by this poetic grandeur that you have referred to. 

just as richter's recordings are untainted by ugliness and uneven rhythm, zepp's performance is pure in its uncompromising pursuit of passionless fury.

[pita bread]

yeah well, it still sounds a five year old temper tantrum

[m]

think of it this way:
 what have lim-dong and sun aimed for?  beauty, poetry, passion?  they are outdone by cortot, rubinstein, cziffra, richter, etc.  so as a contest, they have failed to their predecessors. 

zepp, on the other hand, aims for furious gorilla-rape upon the piano.  it is an unprecedented undertaking in that even performances of the masters of fury, such as cziffra and richter, are marred by this poetic grandeur that you have referred to. 

just as richter's recordings are untainted by ugliness and uneven rhythm, zepp's performance is pure in its uncompromising pursuit of passionless fury.

 
Nice try 

Let's put it like this, with all "uncompromising pursuit of passionless fury" I'd prefer to see much more accurate performance in terms of just mere "notes accuracy" and pianistical evenness, neatness, and professionalism.

You see, it is not a big deal to play this etude fast and sloppy. But it is really hard to play it 100% perfect and even. And if the Opus10/1 is any less than perfect, then there is no Opus10/1.

End of the story.

[prongated]

...a refined musicianship that is not in either the Sun or Lim-Dong, who are merely obsessed with getting the notes right. 

While the spa is a great addition to the pianostreet forum, may I suggest that we also install...[churning stomach] Oops! Sorry...

my words are against nobody except these immature performers like lim-dong and sun, who can't see past the beauty of the first note, and get into the piece as a whole.

Agreed they are probably still immature...but in restrospect, do you really think the original op10no1 mentioned here is a mature one?

just as richter's recordings are untainted by ugliness and uneven rhythm, zepp's performance is pure in its uncompromising pursuit of passionless fury.

...agreed...I mean, have you heard those people who auditioned for American Idol (or Australian or whatever) with the song "Hero"? An artistic comparison may not be too far off here

[pita bread]

You see, it is not a big deal to play this etude fast and sloppy. But it is really hard to play it 100% perfect and even. And if the Opus10/1 is any less than perfect, then there is no Opus10/1.

End of the story.

PWNED.

[opus10no2]

Actually, this performance illustrates the importance of the fingers in 10/1.

His wrist technique is virtually unmatched in this etude, and the only innacuracies are due to the fingers.

There are 2 benchmarks in this piece, the swipe record, and the staccato even record.

I'd like to hear his staccato perf, which is more demanding for the fingers.

[ramseytheii]

my words are against nobody except these immature performers like lim-dong and sun, who can't see past the beauty of the first note, and get into the piece as a whole.

think of it this way:
 what have lim-dong and sun aimed for?  beauty, poetry, passion?  they are outdone by cortot, rubinstein, cziffra, richter, etc.  so as a contest, they have failed to their predecessors. 

zepp, on the other hand, aims for furious gorilla-rape upon the piano.  it is an unprecedented undertaking in that even performances of the masters of fury, such as cziffra and richter, are marred by this poetic grandeur that you have referred to. 

just as richter's recordings are untainted by ugliness and uneven rhythm, zepp's performance is pure in its uncompromising pursuit of passionless fury.

When you put it that way, how can a person not be charmed?

Walter Ramsey

[jlh]

opus10no2... you can't even play piano so you have no business comparing performances of anything much less coming up with "benchmarks" for them!  You have no idea what you're talking about so go crawl back into your hole you worthless piece of imitation spam. 

[ramseytheii]

I am beginning to think they have a point!  Have you in fact ever seen the piano so brutally gorilla raped before?  I certainly have not.  Let's give credit where credit is due!

Walter Ramsey

[mephisto]

opus10no2... you can't even play piano

You think his improvisations are "Hattoed"?

[jlh]

I am beginning to think they have a point!  Have you in fact ever seen the piano so brutally gorilla raped before?  I certainly have not.  Let's give credit where credit is due!

Walter Ramsey

This after ripping on my 39/1 measure by measure because it wasn't 'up to your standards'?? 

[m]

You think his improvisations are "Hattoed"?

You call those improvisations "piano playing"?

[ramseytheii]

This after ripping on my 39/1 measure by measure because it wasn't 'up to your standards'?? 

You may have played op.39 no.1 well, but I think we can all agree you haven't yet gorilla-raped it!


Walter Ramsey

[counterpoint]

This after ripping on my 39/1 measure by measure because it wasn't 'up to your standards'?? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

[cmg]

Incredible!  What a performance!!!  I called my best friend, Martha Argerich, and told her to check out this video.

She said, "Wow!! That's hotter than two rats f**king in a wool sock!"

(Opus, time to get your medication adjusted . . . )