Chopin ballade No2,op.38

[s1d1f1]

I just got ballade in F major,how should I start practising this piece,I have to work very fast...and efective...
Thanx

[franzliszt2]

You could learn this in a few days with ease. Just practice the coda 1st, slowly and solidly. Learning the fast sections is easy, they both use idendical techniques, and the technique will take about 30 mins at most to aquire. The coda is the only hard section, and there are some nasty moments. Read through it and highlight that nasty spots and work on them. And just work on the technique of the fast sections and then it's just note learning,,,and the notes are quite easy to learn

The hard thing is making a performance of it.

[lau]

franz, we're not all prodigies like you. I completely disagree with your time frames  i am working on this ballade and the first slow section takes me forever. a lot more than 30 minutes! and it's not like this peice is way out of my league.

[counterpoint]

You could learn this in a few days with ease.

franzliszt2,

so you have played this Ballade yourself? How much hours did you spend on learning it from the scratch?

I looked in the audition room for a recording of you, but I didn't find any. Please don't make such foolish statements, if you can't prove, you're a greater genius than Mr. Kastle... 

[jlh]

franz, we're not all prodigies like you. I completely disagree with your time frames  i am working on this ballade and the first slow section takes me forever. a lot more than 30 minutes! and it's not like this peice is way out of my league.

I agree.  In fact, I spent at least as much time deciding which manuscript to use for a few of the harmonies as I did learning the rest of the notes in the slow sections.

I have a recording of this in the audition room, btw.

[s1d1f1]

Well thepoint of my quest.was how to make this piece good,fast,and efective,because If we take a piece that we will play for year,from now,it is most probpablythat will be very nice done,with some great idea of all piece(incl.perform.,relax while are playing..,and other things that comes with TIME),BUT the TIME is that I have less,so I realy need a nice TIME FRAME,and techiq advice...thax to all...               

[franzliszt2]

Yes I have played this ballade, I had a very short space of time to learn it in. I  was not given any time to decide what manuscript to use, or anything, I was told play the 2nd ballade so I did. It was either learn the ballade or don't perform, so obviously I learn the ballade.

Ok the 1st section takes for ages...but how long are you prepared to work? Do you think I was working on 3 hours a day?? I was on at least 6! Which i a hell of a lot for 1 piece

franzliszt2,

so you have played this Ballade yourself? How much hours did you spend on learning it from the scratch?

I looked in the audition room for a recording of you, but I didn't find any. Please don't make such foolish statements, if you can't prove, you're a greater genius than Mr. Kastle...

I don't base my achievments on an internet site audition room. I learnt the 2nd ballade in a few days, I've seen people learn much bigger works in shorter spaces of time. There are greater people out there than in the auditiom room...trust me. I don't think it is genius at the age of 17 to learn the notes to a chopin ballade in a few days. It's not even out of the ordinary. Arthur Pizzaro did brahms 2 in 3 days! Also look at the fact I was 17 and had done almost all the etudes, and double notes were of no technical concern when it came to a chopin ballade. The 2nd ballade had no phsysical technical challanges, I'd already done the 1st 3rd and 4th ballades, so I had a solid idea of what I wanted from the 2nd.

The 2nd ballade is hard to make a great performance of. I only learnt it becasue I had to, and was on a very tight schedule. I can happily spend hours on this ballade now if I want, but at the time I didn;t have the time to spare, it was a case of learn and memorise as fast a possible to get a performance together. All I am saying is it is possible!

s1dfetc....said he need to work fast and effective...so I'm simply saying it can be done swiftly if need be. If I had a choice I'd spend a long time working on such a great masterpiece.

I simply interprated the original post as somone who needed to learn this piece fast....well the way I said is fast, coda first, fast sections 2nd and pefect the technique then learn the notes. Slow sections are sightreadable and just need memorising...which is easy if you have perfect picth and know the piece well before.

[jlh]

Also working for you is the fact that this is the shortest of the 4 ballades, and major sections repeat. 

[franzliszt2]

Make 5th finger fall over the hand in downward arpegio sections....make the 5th and 4th finger fall from above and into the keys. Keep the elbow placed slight outwards to ease the passing of the hand. Pedal carefully and maitain a strong legato with the fingers. Perfect the 1st 2 bars of the fast section, modualte it into every key, and 2 hours later you will be playing the fast section with ease.

Learn the Left hand speratly and practice with eyes closed. For the coda do lots of dotted rhythms, seperate voices, no thumb practice, bar at a time, half speed, metronme and chord (playing each hand position as a block of notes). Thats how to practice it. Don't waste time doing lots of slow practice if you are on a short time period. Memory is not that bad, just think all the time and the memory will come.

[franzliszt2]

yes I agree jlh. The techniques are very repetitive. So spend a few hours perfecting the techinque, and then it's easy! Spend the 1st hour trying to learn the notes good luck!! Just master the technique of the 1st 2 bars of the 1st fast section.

I must admit I am not good at advice on the double note sections in the coda, that came easier to me than the rest of the ballade, my teacher give me millions of double note etudes and stuff for yearss so that came easy to me.

[jlh]

I must admit I am not good at advice on the double note sections in the coda, that came easier to me than the rest of the ballade, my teacher give me millions of double note etudes and stuff for yearss so that came easy to me.

The technique that worked for me in the double note coda section was very similar to that of repeated octaves, and generally identical to the technique I used for the Prokofiev Toccata, albeit less percussive.

[lau]

Ok the 1st section takes for ages...but how long are you prepared to work? Do you think I was working on 3 hours a day?? I was on at least 6! Which i a hell of a lot for 1 piece

yeah i figured you worked on it quite a bit each day. But i don't think it's right to just assume everybody else works that much..and you said you can learn it with ease. and the technique takes 30 min to get?? so you weren't working on the  technical challenges for those 6 hours a day or what.

[s1d1f1]

Well,newsflash,today I spoke with a masterclass teacher,and he said that this is very emotional-hard-techig piece,that needs to have a big romantc history behind(like this can't be playesd before....some chopin impromtu...etc)so,he sugest me,for my techn.imrovement_Schubert?what a change,What shoul I do,My dead line is January,big competition>>>?

[counterpoint]

Do you have a teacher, and what is his advice?

You sound a bit like "oh let's learn some Chopin Ballad" - for the jury of the big competition   

Very strange thing. There are other competitions in the next years, I'm sure there are. So why not make a real plan and work intense and detailed on the repertoire - and then go to a competition.

[s1d1f1]

=To cointerpoint_
I did thougt about each,and every competition thet I whanna go,and I did thought about my repertoire,and I have 3 rounds,and I learned program for 2 rounds,BUT,what about ,,GRANDE FINALE,,thing?Well,If you ask me I'm playing for my self,BUT,the jury will decide,about me,and my playing....

[thalberg]

It may help you to note this piece was dedicated to Schumann.  Schumann had two personalities--Florestan and Eusebius.  One mild and one wild.

So, the major sections are the mild personality, and the minor sections are the wild personality.  The piece is a musical portrait.  When one of my professors told me that, suddenly I understood the piece.

The personalities sort of pollute each other as the piece goes on.

[s1d1f1]

THANX TAL