etudes

[imbetter]

is it just me or do most etudes defeat the purpose of an "etude" and require a specific technique instead of requiring them?

[thalbergmad]

Etudes require, so you can acquire.

Personally, i no longer play them unless they are musically worth the effort.

Thal

[imbetter]

well....to a point were you physically cant do it...like feux follets or chopin 25/6

[thalbergmad]

I could not play the feux follets and i would not want to play the Chopin.

Bernhard talked me out of doing etudes to overcome technical shortcomings, so i only play the ones i like.

When i do practice (not very often), I still to a few "Hanons" as a warm up which i doubt if he would approve of.

Aimlessly hammering out hours of Czerny does not appeal to me.

Thal

[ramseytheii]

I could not play the feux follets and i would not want to play the Chopin.

Bernhard talked me out of doing etudes to overcome technical shortcomings, so i only play the ones i like.

When i do practice (not very often), I still to a few "Hanons" as a warm up which i doubt if he would approve of.

Aimlessly hammering out hours of Czerny does not appeal to me.

Thal

Somehow Czerny is experiencing a revitalization of popularity.  Everywhere you look now, some pianist is playing Czerny variations this or that.  It's irritating, because there is a lot more interesting music out there.  I feel people get desperate to find someone of novel worth, and they get interested in the unknown for the sake of playing the unknown.  Every once in a while, a neglected composer deserving attention is discovered.  Most times, there is a good reason a composer's vast oeuvre is not played!

Walter Ramsey

[burstroman]

So much music, so little time.  Play what is worthwhile musically and benefits you technically.

[term]

I detest technical exercises of all kinds, and i will probably never understand how people can waste hours playing czerny and hanon and all that. Why practise a difficult exercise when one can go directly into practising a difficult piece?

[thalbergmad]

Somehow Czerny is experiencing a revitalization of popularity.  Everywhere you look now, some pianist is playing Czerny variations this or that. 

Czerny did write some excellent music, but it represents only a tiny portion of his 1000 or so opi.

You have to open many shells to find a pearl.

Thal

[franzliszt2]

I detest technical exercises of all kinds, and i will probably never understand how people can waste hours playing czerny and hanon and all that. Why practise a difficult exercise when one can go directly into practising a difficult piece?

I start everyday with at least an hour pure technique work (especially Hannon and scales)

They form the essential foundation of playing, and maintain dexterity. How much of your practice time do you spend playing full speed or for any long period of time without stopping? Soon little habits creep in, you start to loose dexterity becasue you simply are not using it. Plus you have to warm up, so why not just play Hannon as a warm up? It can be made fun! Transpose, crosses hands, different rhythms etc....

There are also pieces that have massive challenges that can only be overcome by good technique...and good technique comes from hard work. I think it's a bigger waste of time to learn pieces such as Chopin etudes to develop a technique from scratch. And no pieces will focus on the strength of fingers 345 as much as Hannon, Pischna, Czerny etc... except op10no2 Chopin...and I can't imagine anyone standing a chance in that if they havn't developed 345.

[thalbergmad]

Why practise a difficult exercise when one can go directly into practising a difficult piece?

Then you are treating a difficult piece as a difficult exercise. If it is of good musical value, that is a sin.

The idea of exercises is that you acquire mechanical ability to play pieces easily, so you can concentrate on the music.

Although there has been much anti Hanon on this forum, to me, not doing drills is like going into battle without a weapon.

Thal

[pianistimo]

may i remind you - you have used the word 'sin.'  as opposed to what, might i ask?  playing an entire lesson of music you like is sinful?  i guess i am doomed.

thal, what you need is a new teacher.  come to pa.  you don't, per chance, play with curved fingers do you? 

[thalbergmad]

may i remind you - you have used the word 'sin.'  as opposed to what, might i ask?  playing an entire lesson of music you like is sinful?  i guess i am doomed.

thal, what you need is a new teacher.  come to pa.  you don't, per chance, play with curved fingers do you? 

Let me give you an example that i think i might have used before:

When i was learning the Brahms Pag Variations, i could not play the left hand thirds comfortably. Therefore, as i saw it i had 2 options. I could either get out the good old Hanon and practice thirds, or i could simply repeatedly play the actual section of the variations themselves, until i could do it.

Really, i cannot see the difference except that using the Hanon, i am not actualy using the music of Brahms as a drill.

My teacher was neither for or against Hanon, infact i don't remember him mentioning it much. If i could go to a lesson and play well, he did not care how i did it. He did once however, recommend a little Pischna type exercise.

As Liszt said to one of his pupils, "you can wash your dirty linen at home".

There has been hundreds of pages written on this subject and if i read it all, i would not have time to practice. I think that sometimes we must find our own path. Reject what does not work and keep what does and don't spen half your life trying to find out why.

Thal

PS: I come to PA end of November

[term]

Then you are treating a difficult piece as a difficult exercise. If it is of good musical value, that is a sin.

No, never. If a piece is difficult, i practise until i have it done. Simple as that. Why technical exercises, every second wasted on them is a second less to practise a nice piece of music. Why must i have the required technique before starting with a difficult piece? I have never done that and until now, i get by with that very well.

[franzliszt2]

No, never. If a piece is difficult, i practise until i have it done. Simple as that. Why technical exercises, every second wasted on them is a second less to practise a nice piece of music. Why must i have the required technique before starting with a difficult piece? I have never done that and until now, i get by with that very well.

Have you played Brahms paganini variations? Ravel gaspard de la nuit? Those are just 2 pieces I cant imagine being learnt without a firm technical backgorund

[mephisto]

I don't think anyone is advising you to have no technical background. Even the so-called Hanon-hater Bernhard said that there is no problem playing a Hanon study in thirds if you are playing a difficult piece with lots of thirds. And pracitcing scales(maybe from Hanon) if you have problems with your scales.