Theory question

[b0mbtrack]

Is there a term for how many measures a melody should be.  I know it sounds off to have a certain amount of measures like 5 because the ear tends to hear in 4 and 12 and others as well.  If there is a term for this or any info i can read on this please let me know.  i'm more concerned about finding out about some odd things that i see in pieces where they throw in one measure to split up two four measure sections and am wondering if there is some kind of outline to look at.   

[mcgillcomposer]

Is there a term for how many measures a melody should be.  I know it sounds off to have a certain amount of measures like 5 because the ear tends to hear in 4 and 12 and others as well.  If there is a term for this or any info i can read on this please let me know.  i'm more concerned about finding out about some odd things that i see in pieces where they throw in one measure to split up two four measure sections and am wondering if there is some kind of outline to look at.   

There is no such thing as 'how many measures a melody should be'. This strict 4x4 (2x2) squareness is an ideal of the galant and classical eras, and the good composers of each of these respective periods rarely adhere to such a formula.

There are phrase-structural theories that use these 'perfect' proportions as archetypes against which all else is compared; however, they simply represent a simple frame of reference. Thus, the opening eight measures of Beethoven's Op. 2 No. 1 sonata is generally regarded as the archetypal sentence structure (2 bar basic idea - repeated over dominant harmony - continuation phrase of 4 measures that includes fragmentation, 'liquidation', and a cadential progression).

I think the most succinct and applicable theory to date (in terms of what you seem to be looking for) is that put forth by William Caplin in his book entitled Classical Form. The book is quite expensive, so if you would like, I can give a mini course online using his text as a reference. This would give you the up-to-date terminology, along with a better understanding of classical form, complete with examples from the repertoire of Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven.

I don't mind doing this, but it's only worth the time if you are sincerely interested.

Let me know.

- Andrew

[b0mbtrack]

hey, i sent you a pm

[mcgillcomposer]

hey, i sent you a pm

And I just sent you one back.

[dan101]

Of course, phrase lengths tend to have subdivisions of four measures, but this is by no means a rule. In fact, speaking as a composer, there are no rules for melodic writing. If there were, then composing wouldn't be a fun and magical musical experienxce.

You are analysing phrase lengths in your repertoire, so you're doing fine. Often, composers will throw in three and five bar phrase lengths for added variety and interest. Remember the four bar standard length, but be prepared to expect the unexpected in your analysis.

[quantum]

Go listen to some Haydn Sonatas.  Being a classical composer you would maybe expect 4x4 even layout most of the time.  Not uncommon to see 3 + 4 + 7 +5 + 1 or similar.

Go listen to some Scriabin Sonatas.  20th century and very complex music indeed.  Yet he made great use of 2 and 4 bar phrases. 

[b0mbtrack]

thanks everyone, i know there is nothing writen in stone in music but i thought there would probably be some sort of in depth theory when it comes to this.  Thanks again, this helps with some of the confusion when analyzing pieces.

[puddy]

One way of looking at phrases is in the context in which they were written. If a phrase is a musical sentence, then logically, they should reflect whatever is needed to be said. Replace the phrases with worded sentences in the mood in which they were presented and a story should unfold. Try it with Beethoven's 5th.