Rach Prelude Op.23 No.5 tension, hand hurts

[rchmnnffbelle]

I've been having problem with my hand/wrist hurting when I play, mostly with my right hand, but some with my left. It happens in measures 17-20 and 72-79. I try to relax but it's kind of hard with it having a lot of fast chords. My teacher wants me to bring it up to speed but that just makes it worse. I've talked to several people about it and they just say to find some place to relax even if it is just for a split second. The problem is, I can't find a place to relax, by time I get to the ending I can barely finish it because of tension, I don't know how to get rid of it, I've tried. I don't push myself when my hand hurts because I don't want to damage my hand. I also have a competition coming up within a month. Does anyone, even if you haven't played the song have any advice about what I should do to relax?  

[rchmnnffbelle]

Anyone?
 Any advice would be great!

[guendola]

Anyone?
 Any advice would be great!

Unfortunately, it is impossible to make a diagnosis. There can be so many reasons. So just two recommendations: Play it very slowly and check for any tension, then try to adjust your position (hands, arms, the whole body...) to release that tension. Ask your teacher, he is responsible to help you on exactly these problems.

[solitudewithin]

When you say that your hand hurts i assume that you use your weak muscles to play those thirds and chords at the prelude intro. Another reason maybe is to have a good alignment of arm and fingers while playing, experiment a little with motions that make them easy to play at a comfortable speed.
Now, those meters are played by hands loosely bouncing at the wrists while your upper arms suppourt the movement. Another tip is to try to play them soft, concentrate on relaxation then when you are ready deal with technique and speed.

[rchmnnffbelle]

Ask your teacher, he is responsible to help you on exactly these problems.

Unfortunately, the one who could help me with this is not here, I do have a teacher though, just not one who's dealt with a lot of tension problems.

When you say that your hand hurts i assume that you use your weak muscles to play those thirds and chords at the prelude intro. Another reason maybe is to have a ccccc, experiment a little with motions that make them easy to play at a comfortable speed.
Now, those meters are played by hands loosely bouncing at the wrists while your upper arms suppourt the movement. Another tip is to try to play them soft, concentrate on relaxation then when you are ready deal with technique and speed.

It's not the thirds and chords at the begining of he song that trouble me, it's the the ones in the middle, and near the end where it's big chords, going fast. I think I know what you mean by 'loosely bouncing your wrists' I can do that with the smaller chords, but I can't do it with the bigger ones. My hands are to small to do that little motion. They can barely reach a ninth, well I can reach a ninth fine as long as I don't have any notes in between it. How can you use your weak muscles? And how do I know what I'm using?? How do you know  when you are using your strong muscles?
By good alignment of arm and fingers while playing, are you saying that I should scoot the bench back if my arms are to "bent" or cramped, because, I already have my bench back pretty far(not to far though) so my arms don't get cramped up.

[solitudewithin]

Well to start with the chords that give you trouble they are also played like that. You use the same bouncing of the hands. The upper arms move slightly forward. The next thing is that you should find a way of playing the chords without feeling any strain. Use your palm muscles to open wide so you can reach the chords, experiment with reaching only the notes that you can comfortably play and do the bouncing at a slow speed. The other thing that i mentioned about stronger muscles is that when you bounce your hand it is suppourted by your forearm and the forearm by your upper arm while your upper arm is suppourted by your back muscles. It is a chain of coordinating the playing apparutus so you can play without tension, when you use this kind of playing attidute you will feel refreshed while you play these chords. So you will know it when the passage becomes easy to play.
About finger alignment i mean that that the forearm is placed correctly with the fingers that play, that is when you play a 2nd inversion of Eb (G-Bb-Eb-G) your forarm should be lockated at the middle of 3d and 4th finger. I hope this helps.

[guendola]

In the first chord section (starting at measure 17) only bounce on the eigths, not on the 16ths. For practise you can leave out all the "non-bouncing" 16ths. Fast repetitions can't be bounced on each chord.

You should have a look at Valentina Lisitsta playing this piece on youtube. She does that very nicely (watch her fingers, not her dress!). That movie is very instructive (many of hers are).

[jinfiesto]

Yes, you have to find out where you're going to relax, but more importantly, you have to group the fast chords into "impulses" as it were. If you're really stuck, I can make you a video tutorial, as it's hard to explain here. It'll be private though, because I intend to delete it as soon as you're done with it, so pm me, because I think I might need some information to send you a private video.

But the idea of the technique is, you group a few chords that can be played in one "motion" together, and you find relaxation moving from that impulse to the next. It's a good thing to keep track of.

[rchmnnffbelle]

Thanks to everyone that helped me