anybody know how to write a fugue?

[pmz310]

I've just started composing without the knowledge of writing a fugue, anyone know how?

thanks,
P

[franzliszt2]

Theres a book called the art of fugue....I forget the author. But it's good.

I learnt all the basics off a teacher...You need to learn about the structure etc... It's hard to write about, it takes a lot of examples and analysis.

Do a lot of analysis of fugues with a teacher, and study Bach etc....then you start to get a feel for the structures and style etc...

[gerry]

There's a hilarious little choral number that Glenn Gould composed called "So You Want To Write a Fugue" where the parts demonstrate as the words are sung about diminution, augmentation, etc.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ain4qftoM

[mcgillcomposer]

Yes, and I can tell you with 100% confidence that you're not going to write a good fugue until you've mastered species counterpoint in 4 or 5 voices.

[counterpoint]

Yes, and I can tell you with 100% confidence that you're not going to write a good fugue until you've mastered species counterpoint in 4 or 5 voices.

There are even fugues with 2 voices.

But I would recommend to write some canons first.

[mcgillcomposer]

There are even fugues with 2 voices.

Firstly, I doubt he wants to write fugues in two voices for the rest of his life. Secondly, fugue is only approachable after studying species counterpoint in at least four voices. If you've done it, you'll know why (even for two-voice fugues).

Oh, and btw, a two-voice fugue is incredibly difficult to write - much harder than one in 3 or 4 voices - another reason to seriously master the basics of counterpoint beforehand.

[counterpoint]

Firstly, I doubt he wants to write fugues in two voices for the rest of his life. Secondly, fugue is only approachable after studying species counterpoint in at least four voices. If you've done it, you'll know why (even for two-voice fugues).

That's like saying: you first need to play Chopin Etudes before you are able to play "Für Elise" 

[quantum]

More realistically: after playing Chopin Etudes you will be able to play Fur Elise better. 

While your first attempts at writing a fugue may not be that great, at least you have made the plunge and have some conception of the ground that needs to be covered. 

The only way you can learn to play Fur Elise is to practise Fur Elise. 

[mcgillcomposer]

Well, I judge by results, not speculation. So, if you think you can do it, go ahead.

[cygnusdei]

I've never seen a Fuga a 2. Any examples?

[counterpoint]

WTC I  Fuga 10 in E minor

[term]

Instead of theory, i'd rather emphasize the importance of thinking two (later more) melodies parallel in your head. If you have it in your head clearly and the way you want it to be, you have successfully skipped the theory part which tends to put what should be a free dialogue into a straight jacket of patterns and schemes. Not that theory doesnt improve your fugue writing, but in my opinion making it up in your head is the better way, since you dont think in terms of technique necessary to achieve your goals, but you imagine the goal, and technique doesnt bother you. The problem of technique is that it always hinders you in your process, resulting in a bad fugue. It's comparable to a "writer's flow" (not sure if thats the right term): You'll get the best results if you just simply write it down as if you were reading a book. Easier said than done, of course, but nevertheless true.
However it's really just one way of doing it to be honest, and you might be better off with something else. From my experience, imagining the sound of your fugue, or at least part of it, is not only quite difficult but requires practise as well. It has the advantage that you dont have to fight with books though (or your piano), just sit down, relax, and think.

[mattgreenecomposer]

Yes the Eminor in WTC book 1, the difference between a 2 voice fugue and an invention is minimal with the second voice entering on dominant instead of tonic, and of course a bit longer and more developed usually.

I would write some 2 part inventions first.  Understanding harmony and how to have tones pass on strong beats and weak beats, along with suspensions.

Forget Species, waste of time.  I thought it was useless in college and I still think its useless today.

[schartmanovich]

Yes the Eminor in WTC book 1, the difference between a 2 voice fugue and an invention is minimal with the second voice entering on dominant instead of tonic, and of course a bit longer and more developed usually.

I would write some 2 part inventions first.  Understanding harmony and how to have tones pass on strong beats and weak beats, along with suspensions.

Forget Species, waste of time.  I thought it was useless in college and I still think its useless today.

It's probably because you didn't have a good teacher. It is extremely valuable when you have someone who can explain to you the 'why's and not just the 'rules'.

[mattgreenecomposer]

He Heh, well you guessed that right.  I definately had the worst teacher in America but I still think 18th century counterpoint is more valuable to real world composition.  Remember 17th century species does not deal with harmony today as we know it, but just with intervalic relationships.  But whatever floats your boat, thats just my opinion.

[schartmanovich]

He Heh, well you guessed that right.  I definately had the worst teacher in America but I still think 18th century counterpoint is more valuable to real world composition.  Remember 17th century species does not deal with harmony today as we know it, but just with intervalic relationships.  But whatever floats your boat, thats just my opinion.

18th century counterpoint comes from species counterpoint...it's just an extension. Species counterpoint is everywhere (Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, etc.) ... I sincerely do not see how you can deem the study of it a waste of time. The principles of species counterpoint are not bound by style if it is taught well.

[teresa_b]

Simple:  "A fugue"  .  (Sorry!)  Seriously, I would think you need formal training in counterpoint composing.  I have a very vague recollection in college of studying some motets, etc, as preparation for fugal writing. I really never pursued it beyond that.  Good luck!

Teresa

[quantum]

The principles of species counterpoint are not bound by style if it is taught well.

I agree.  While my species counterpoint class wasn't structured to promote more interactive learning, I did start to see the concepts applied to many different genres of music.