How can I study chords better?

[Bob]

I want to be able to instantly read/comprehend the chords I see on a page of music.  Piano music.

I know them.  I can play them.  I can write them.  I understand them.

I've played chords in root position and inverstions over scales.    I've done chord progressions, but I suppose I could do more of those.

Yet, when I look at a piece of music, the chord still aren't just popping off the page at me.  And that's what I want.  Instant, effortless recognition.

I think it might have something to do with them being written in different ways.  Maybe I should be mixing up things more.  Stretching out the voicing more.

Any more ideas?

It happens.  I just have to look at the score for a second on each chord.  I want it faster though.  Instant.  I'm seeing... group of notes... those look familiar... oh, yes, it's a IV chord... or is that a VI?  Yes, it's a VI.  I need that faster.

More hymns probably.  I want something that will get me reading all the keys though too.  Hymns tend to be in certain keys.  When I play through chord in all inversions in all keys, I hit all the keys.  That's kind of what I'm looking for.

[shortyshort]

Yet, when I look at a piece of music, the chord still aren't just popping off the page at me.  And that's what I want.  Instant, effortless recognition.

Join the club.
I want to hear these answers too.

[slobone]

Learn some jazz, it's all about chords. See if you can find volume 1 of John Mehegan's Jazz Improvisation series, Tonal and Rhythmic Principles.

[faulty_damper]

I want to be able to instantly read/comprehend the chords I see on a page of music.  Piano music.

I know them.  I can play them.  I can write them.  I understand them.

I've played chords in root position and inverstions over scales.    I've done chord progressions, but I suppose I could do more of those.

Yet, when I look at a piece of music, the chord still aren't just popping off the page at me.  And that's what I want.  Instant, effortless recognition.

I think it might have something to do with them being written in different ways.  Maybe I should be mixing up things more.  Stretching out the voicing more.

Any more ideas?

It happens.  I just have to look at the score for a second on each chord.  I want it faster though.  Instant.  I'm seeing... group of notes... those look familiar... oh, yes, it's a IV chord... or is that a VI?  Yes, it's a VI.  I need that faster.

More hymns probably.  I want something that will get me reading all the keys though too.  Hymns tend to be in certain keys.  When I play through chord in all inversions in all keys, I hit all the keys.  That's kind of what I'm looking for.

From your description, you are making a seriously flawed understanding of what it means to understand what a "chord" is.  What you describe is the labelling of the concurrences of notes that line up vertically.  This is a I chord, IV chord, V chord, iv chord...  This is labelling and not practically functonal and takes two extra steps to get the desired outcome unless labelling is the outcome.  Clearly, harmony class has warped our minds to think in non-musical ways but that's another thread I can rant about: looking at music without music.  Theory geeks.

What it sounds like you want to be able to do, whether or not you realize it, is to be able to predict or make better sense of the direction of diatonic music.  This is quite different from visually applying names and requires your ear to be trained to hear harmonic progressions.  This is actually quite easy to do, though I know of no theory or ear-training book that teaches this skill, and many musicians learn it without formal instruction.

When you think of the sound of a Major triad, what can come after it?  Anything.  But if it's a sub/pre-dominant sounding chord, things get much easier.  The next sounding chord would probably be a dominant chord.  And from here it would probably be followed by a tonic chord.  Or not!  It could be the sound of a iv chord!  And from here it's the choices that a composer chooses that makes music interesting.  It's choice!

You have the score in front of you and you can see everything before you play it.  This gives the performer an advantage that only a listener would not have: meaning before performance.  Whereas the listener would have to listen over a requisite time frame to comprehend the information, the performer doesn't have to listen at all to understand.  He can listen inside his mind and make life or death decisions that can make either make music or not.

Let's look at the chord progression again: I IV V7 iv
How can we make it musically interesting?  If it were performed at equal dynamic levels, it would like like church accompaniment.  In order to make music, the things that are most interesting should be emphasized.  The movement is towards the dominant so there should be a crescendo to emphasize that tritone which usually resolves to the tonic, which should be played with a natural decrescendo because tension should relax.  But we don't get an expected tonic resolution!  We instead get a deceptive cadence which is interesting and should be emphasized.  But we can't emphasize this iv chord by playing loudly like the V7 chord because the dynamic level is the same.

So how else can this iv chord be emphasized?  The answer to this should be the purpose of learning theory.  Theory shouldn't be for the labelling of musical phenomena but for the meaningful and intelligent applications it has on performing music.  Theory can help us perform music better.

[anna_crusis]

If you want to sight read them in real time I don't think there's any other way other than to practice reading lots of music with chords every day.

Obviously, any attempt to think about what it is while you're playing and... you've missed it. There's no time to think, you just need to recognise it from experience.

I've tried going by the shape, or by thinking about the names of the notes in the chord but it's always too slow. The only way I can sight read a chord is if I recognise it from previously.

[Bob]

I just want to be able to take in a chord as one unit. 

I suppose it's just a lot more complex.  After all, one note is just one note.  One chord can be written in so many different ways. 

I want to see the chord -- like a F Major - in any form and to instantly understand how it fits into the key, like tonic, to see the function too that way. 

I remember seeing something about being able to write a chord out in over a hundred different ways.

Maybe I am doing the right things already.  I just want more.  Maybe it just needs a little tweaking -- like more writing of chords and more opening of those chords.  And maybe there will always be that little pause or a little extra study needed to nail them down.  You can take the simplest chords and throw in some chromatic notes, appog's, shift things off the beat, and suddenly they look a lot more foreign when they're actually very simple.

I still think it's true that you can read more in groups of notes and lower the amount of brain power necessary to take in the music, at least through reading it.  Instead of FAC, it's just F chord for a cluster of notes. 

I suppose I just need more work on it. 

I want some type of routine though.  I have somethign going already.  It must not be cutting it for me though.  I want better skill in this area.  It seems like it will have a big payback.

[dnephi]

Join the club.
I want to hear these answers too.

Play for ten more years.

Cheers,

Daniel

[shortyshort]

Play for ten more years.

Fair enough.
That will probably do it.

[anna_crusis]

I just want to be able to take in a chord as one unit.  I still think it's true that you can read more in groups of notes and lower the amount of brain power necessary to take in the music, at least through reading it.  Instead of FAC, it's just F chord for a cluster of notes. 

I don't know if this will be of any use to you, but when I sight read a phrase I take in four or five notes at once, as if they were squashed into one. So a chord doesn't look that different to me than a string of notes... it's just that one is written melodically and one harmonically.

[Bob]

I need more ideas.

I need to get more variations of open chords I think.  Reading and playing them in close position is fine.  Good for understanding, but that's not realistic for music.

I also don't want them to be isolated though. 

I don't know.  I'm still thinking.

I want a chord routine though.

[slobone]

Maybe somebody can suggest some exercises that have a lot of chords in them. Then while you're learning to play them, you'll also be learning to recognize them more quickly.

I think Hanon has some good stuff, but apparently I'm the last surviving Hanon fan, so...

[Bob]

I'm thinking I need to do more with reading and writing chords too.  And that I don't know them as well as I thought I did.  I can play them, but that doesn't mean I'm taking in the information -- It's just the postition on the keys, not the flats and sharps so much.

I don't mind Hanon exercises.  Not that I do them though.  I have my own.  Hanon helped me learn the keys a little better.

[nyonyo]

I grew up learning to play organ (grand mother kind of organ) so I learn chords from the beginning. You can name any chords, I can tell you right away. How did I learn this skill?
You have to memorize slowly, you cannot expect to memorize everything in a few weeks. It takes years and you have to apply to a real pieces so you will not forget anymore. By the way, I learn chords for about 10 years. Even my current piano teacher was impressed that I can identify any chords in any Beethoven Sonata and improvise on those chords..

[Bob]

Just need to think 'in chord terms' more.  Yes.

I'm looking for a routine though.


I've done...

Major, minor, aug, dim
7ths...  Dom, o, M, m, halfdim, dim (mM, AM)

Playing them up/down in all inversions, chromatially.
Play them as arpeggios.

Play triads over major and minor scales, all inversions.
Arp'd triads on major/minor scales, all inversions.

That's playing.  Then writting that out.  Except writing it out is very, very dry.


What else have I done?...
Circle of fifths.  V7's around
II V I, all inversions
A little with simple chord progressions, all keys.


I need more with opening the chords up.
More with reading chords.
More with reading chords in an actual context.  There are things like approg's, etc., that mess up their 'easy' appearance. 

And there are other chords I haven't focused on.

With the goal being to instantly identify chords faster.  Reading as a chord instead of individual notes.  Think in terms of one chord instead of several different notes.

[nyonyo]

You should not memorize that way...You need to memorize by playing pieces.
In addition, do not force yourself to learn so many chords at one time. It will be very frustrating.

It is way easier when you are young to learn chords, because you do not have so much expectation to play fancy chords. As an adult, people will not satisfy to just play basic chords. As a result, adult get frustrated easily.

I remember that it takes like six months just to master pieces with C, F, G7 chords and then in the second book start learning chods for F, G Major keys, and so on...So it did take time...But once you master those chords, you cannot forget.

[Bob]

I can take it.  All the keys, three different inverstions, that's about my limit though for one sitting.

I need to get the chords in my head more.  My hands will learn them and my mind will be left behind.

I need to free them up from close position chords.  That's what I'm wondering about.  Are there standard ways to create open chords? 

I suppose so...
Three notes in the right hand, bass note in the left
ditto, octaves in the left

Root, fifth in left; something in right

And then it starts getting into voice leading, but I just want to stick with chords.  Parallels or not.  Smoothness isn't a concern.

I need something, maybe all that, with printed notation though.  Reading and writing all that I suppose.  Because I don't have to think about the actual key when I'm runnign though these chords -- F# or Gb?  Doesn't matter, just play those notes.  But that isn't helping after a certain point.

[Bob]

I guess no one likes my chord routine idea.

Piano is not so much in the mindset of doing a routine to engrain stuff.  It's all about literature.

[Essyne]

I have the same questions as Bob. . . .

and have come to about the same conclusion as him as well.

I want to KNOW chords up and down, right and left, and know EVERYTHING about them (WHEN SIGHT-READING, AT FIRST GLANCE) but have no idea how to go about doing that. Perfection is key, but, alas, I am not a computer.

Can what Bob is asking be done? I'm sure it can, but can any of you actually DO it? (Not an attack, but looking for answers from one who has "been there").

[Bob]

Yes, it can be done.  Just like studying multiplication tables except it's a lot more complicated.  Many more variations.

I've got more notes from a prevous practice I still want to post here.

[Essyne]

please do - - - it's fascinating

[Bob]

All right, all right.

These are different ways to mix things up.

- block chords, or
- arps


- triads  135
- triad plus the octave 1358

staggering the left and right hand starting notes, so you're not always doing hands parallel.  Parallel motion yes, but not exactly the same notes...
R, 3   (for left, right hands starting note)... 3,5 / 5,R
R, 5 / 3,R / 5, 3     
- That's the left hand starting the root, while the right starts on the third.  Combinations of that.  Spaced closely or apart. 


I've just been doing arpeggios over major scales.  Minors at some point again.  That takes more thought.

And I've been going up/down the scales, step by step. I ii iii IV V VI vii...  I was thinking leaping would work better.  Maybe just skip thirds I, iii, V, vii, ii, IV, VI, I.   Or chord progressions.  All root chord progressions.  The mixed up.

Stuff I learned in theory class, yes.  Stuff that I should know, but no one ever checked or pushed it.  Stuff I know if I think about it more.  I just want it all faster.

And then open chords.  The original intent of this thread I think.  I'm doing very similar stuff with the hands.  I like that it keep the balance of workout between them.  As soon as I give the right hand an arp and the left just a bass note, then the left hand is just going to be sitting there while the right hand develops more.

My understanding of chords is just not quite fast enough though.  I see that with the minor scales esp -- not playing a minor scale -- playing chords up and down a minor scale.  And with the diminished chord in the majors. 

And with farther out keys.  F# I keep noticing that.  Am I thinking F# or Gb really?

So I should also be writing these things out.  I was thinking of using software, but then you have to mess around with learning to use the software better.  Hand writing is much easier.  Writing anything is very time consuming though. 

I was also thinking if I wrote if out, I might use those writings like notecards or something, and practice reading this stuff that way.


That's about it.  Plenty of work there.

Could expand chords later.  Seventh chrods.  Chromatics.  Aug sixths. 

And better voicings.

[Bob]

I take it people didn't follow that?   lol

[mass]

I find that fake books help.  I'm currently copying melody lines out and will notate the harmony on separate staff paper .

[Bob]

Interesting one.  Good point.

I've never mastered fake books much.  Yes, writing out instead of playing them right away is a good idea too.

Do they have fake books with mainly traids?  A hymn fakebook maybe?

I've got some.  Yes, there are beginner fake books.  It's still sevenths chords though.  I think I want something even simpler than that.  Triads might still work, even with basic seventh chords written out.

There's something to that.  Jazz is what triggered all this.  From the classical approach of just prepping up literature, it misses chords a lot, I think.  If that makes sense.  I was happy to get that side of music when I looked into jazz a bit.  I just want to get all that down better.

[keypeg]

This is a wild thought.  Is there such a thing as knowing too much and the brain kicking in too much?  Is it possible to play chords, leave the mind behind, and discover what you know but you don't know becaue you're always trying to be aware?

[Bob]

Yes, but I want to get more awareness and then forget it.  Just have that awareness there automatically.

It's not the same as just analyzing a piece.  For me that's more like deciphering anyway.  I want it more fluent.  I've seen people do it.  The ones with much more experiences, the professors.  Effortless for them.  And I've done the theory and ear training classes, but that's really more like an introduction.  And they never went through everything and drilled things in.

I do really see I'll have to do more writing.  Just working on the piano keys means I'm probably doing only 12 keys and there are 15.  15 Majors, 15 minors.  Just working on the keys means I'm only thining of 12 keys, and probably not even perfect for those 12.  Like I doubt I'm really thinking a# minor as iii of the F# Major scale.  I bet I'm thinking more like bb minor for the chord, at least the look.  Or just seeing the F# Major and plugging the hand over the right notes.  I need more than that.

But yes, possible.  I also notice my hands start memorizing this without my mind's awareness, so I should change things up once it flows along too smoothly.  Otherwise my mind really isn't leading things along much.

[keypeg]

Well, if what you are doing is starting to get you there... I had this thought of our conscious mind and the conscious knowledge we acquire sometimes getting in the way, so that the knowledge is already sitting there if only we would get out of the way.  In some instances it works.  I just don't know how to explain it or if it's apt.

[nia_kurniati]

I don't know if this will be of any use to you, but when I sight read a phrase I take in four or five notes at once, as if they were squashed into one. So a chord doesn't look that different to me than a string of notes... it's just that one is written melodically and one harmonically.

If the song is simple yes we can read 4-5 notes at once, but what if say we play Chopin, there's alot of chords right, and for me I must think what chord is that so I can play that new song faster rather that I play just the notes without know what chord it came from.

[leshmye]

Hi Bob,
I don't know what I am going to say here will help or not.
I play in chords too, and no matter in what key, I just have to recognize chords I, IV and V. To me, quite a lot of the other chords can be implemented by 'tweaking' these 3 chords. For example, the simplest tweaking is to get the II, III and VI minor out of them. There are others as well.
I am not sure if this answers your question.
I teach others how to play chords in a quick way, using the method I sort of described here. I do this just as an interest on my blog (quite new still) at PianoShortcuts.com.  I call it "Piano Cheats".

[Bob]

You mean make a major chord on each scale step and then 'tweak' them down to a minor?  I suppose that would work too.

I learned just to make them straight off the scales though.  But that is another way.

[slobone]

If the song is simple yes we can read 4-5 notes at once, but what if say we play Chopin, there's alot of chords right, and for me I must think what chord is that so I can play that new song faster rather that I play just the notes without know what chord it came from.

And Chopin's harmonies are often quite difficult to analyze anyway. He was the first composer to really exploit harmonic ambiguity as a compositional device.

[Bob]

So far the chord routine thing is going as planned.  I'm thinking 'chords' more.  Not as much effort at all. 

I'm just losing my finger dexterity a bit.

[danny elfboy]

Take a blank sheet book.
Write all major chords for all notes in all inversions.
Write all minor chords for all notes in all inversions.
Write all seventh chords for all notes in all inversions.
Write all diminished chords for all notes in all inversions.
Write all augmented chords for all notes in all inversions.
Write all suspended chords for all notes in all inversions.
Write all sixth chords for all notes in all inversions

and so on ... till you run out of chords.
When this happens ... start it all over again till you have no more pages left in the book.