Comparative difficulty of Ravel's Ondine and Jeux d'eau

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

I am about to strart one of these pieces and am not sure about their difficulty in terms of technique compared to one other. If you are inclined to help please do. I look forward to responses.

[s_bussotti]

There's really no comparison.  This is similar to saying, "What is the comparison in technical difficulties between Chopin's Minute Waltz and Chopin's Piano Concerto No. 2?"

[debussy symbolism]

Um I am not really understanding what you are saying. I am well aware of the fact that difficulty is subjective, but am wondering about which piece simply is considered to be more difficult to execute techinically...I was not talking about the musical demands of the pieces.

[thierry13]

I would tend to think Ondine is harder, tough Jeux d'eaux is definitely not easy and a great piece. I would begin by playing that first. The difference is not as huge as bussotti said tough.

[debussy symbolism]

Thank you very much for your input. More input is welcome from anyone else of course.

[ramseytheii]

Ondine is much harder than Jeux d'eau, in many ways.  First of all, although Ravel's style was established by Jeux d'eau (according to him), Ondine is more freely composed.  Whereas Jeux d'eau has easily divisible rhythms, Ondine's rhythms are much more fluid and require a very sophisticated rhythmic sense.

Ondine has many physical demands that Jeux d'eau lacks, not the least of which is the difficult opening figuration.

Jeux d'eau is very difficult, no doubt about it.  It's a fascinating piece that shows Ravel's unique combination of intellectual and visceral.  I think the intellectual in Ravel is often overlooked.  Notice in Jeux d'eau how using straightforward note values, he achieves lots of rhythmic complexity and subtlety. 

In the opening, for instance, you have eighth notes in the left hand, then sixteenths in the right, then thirty seconds.  Over all of this, there is harmonic rhythm of dotted quarter (E⁷) and eighth (A⁷).  The first bars are instructive for the way he deals with rhythm in the whole piece.  He has a harmonic rhythm superimposed over a certain number of beats, and those beats are subdivided and subdivided over and over again. 

Bad performances of Ravel are usually performances that aren't harmonic; they sound thin or fingery; or they have too much pedal, over-compensating for the lack of harmonic playing with the keyboard alone.  It's the notion of a superimposed, subtle harmonic rhythm that many don't grasp.

Walter Ramsey

[pmz310]

 Sorobji's OC, and the Symphony and Concerto for solo piano by Alkan

[dikai_yang]

I've tried both.  I think difficulty-wise, they are about the same.  But Ondine took a bit longer to learn.

Ondine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBHIafPsIQY

Jeux d'eau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6WhPyo1J1w