Autism?

[pianowelsh]

Hi guys... I reccently recieved a call from a a parent who has asked me to teach one of their children who has autism. I believe it isn't severe autism..but I have no experience in teaching children with this condition. Can anyone give advice? they are under 10.. I have also been told that they do not read music and will only play by ear.  I have agreed on this rare occasion to teach in their own home - not my studio - in the hope that this will be a more productive environment for the child to learn in.

[andric_s]

Hi, I don't know if I have any advice, but I have a student who is "high-functioning autistic".  I've been working with her for almost a year, and she's doing great.  She had a teacher before me, but he became a hairdresser....  I'm sure there's a good story there.

This girl is very smart, and her mother described her as a "code-breaker" and that I shouldn't be afraid to challenge her.

We do some reading... I'm using the Schaum primer (green book) because the melodies are appealing and have strong cadences.

At this point I am mostly providing fodder for her creative explorations.  She composes and improvises.  She has a good ear, and is strongly moved by sounds.  She mentioned Bach's Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor (I think she called it Bach's haunted house song or something), and I showed her how to imitate it using the D harmonic minor scale.  She comes up with the best titles for her compositions, of which I am wistfully envious. 

I've shown her a couple of "juicy"-sounding scales (like harmonic minor) and I'm gently pushing her to practice them with correct fingering across multiple octaves.  RH only... co-ordinating her two hands is an issue.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with autism, actually.    I am extra patient with her when she gets powerfully distracted by looking at the mechanism of the piano.  She always needs to be reminded by her parents to follow social conventions like "hello" and "goodbye", but I can relate to that.  People chatter too much anyway

I wasn't able to meet her parents' request that I teach at their house, and she does fine at my studio.

[Bob]

Everyone is different.  Talk to the parents and find out what they kid can do.  Don't buy everything that the parent says though.  Try it out with the kid.

Do a wikipedia for autism so you know more about it of course.

They might be frustrated faster.  Might be more expressive with the music. 

Just do it and find out.  You don't have much to lose. 

On the more calculated side... You will probably learn and pick up new teaching ideas and insights into how people think.  You can use these for any student.  Things like color coded for example -- That works well with other 'regular' students too in some cases.

Just make the parent aware -- That it's probably not exactly your area, but you're willing to take it on as a challenge. 

Then you add that to your teaching resume "I taught a student with special needs."  Who-wah!  Haha.  But true too.

The materials might need to be modified.  The student might be able to read, but the music might need to be enlarged or color coded.  Or maybe you make a slow recording of the music for the student.  Just focus on the end goal and what the student can do. 

That can be a lot of work though.  But it's probably going to be interesting.  Maybe charge the parent for your prep time too then.  Although... if you're not an expert in that area, you should charge less.  But they might go for that.  It is your time, and you can say you need to be compensated for it all, even the extra prep time.  Anything goes really.  The parents might be very willing to work with you on things if it means you'll teach their kid.  They might be happy with whatever you do.  Which is always nice, but you also have to answer to yourself.

It may also be that the student just wants or needs something more like early music.  Just something where they're making some kind of music, keeping some kind of beat, and probably most importantly... enjoying themself.  That might be the direction to go in.  As opposed to prepping them up for their future concert career like everyone else.

[pianowelsh]

Hi - Yeah I teacha couple of students with ADD (Attention deficit disorder) and one who is dyslexic, so I am used to keeping their attention span with short focussed activities.  Im interested to know more about the coordination challenges and reading issues that autistic children may face with regards to music study. I have been told he has a strong aural ability but is unable to concentrate to read. How are autistic children at pattern spotting??  If reading is a real problem I am willing to take amore aural based approach to music learning...but i feel sure there must be a way of getting through the reading barrier. Does anyone here have experience of autistic students?  thanks andric and bob for your comments.

[keypeg]

My knowledge of autism is imperfect but here goes: Autistic people have no filters.  We constantly filter our environment.  When you go to the grocery store to buy oranges, you have a vague impression of "greengrocer", store clerk you want to talk to, you see a flash of orange, zero in on the oranges, and buy the oranges.  You'll hear the guy talking to you but not the other sounds around you.  You do things one at a time.

The autistic person perceives every single detail of every single thing with all of his senses all the time.  He is flooded with input.  He will see the kleenex on the floor, the whirling fan, the oranges, tomatoes, potatoes, flies buzzing on the onions, hear the whirring fan, squeaky shoes, smell the smells... and every single dimple on every orange.

Wikipedia talks about "symptoms" - I wouldn't base my teaching on Wikepedia, and especially not that article.  Yes, autistic kids rock and line up their toys, but why?  In order to have a single stimulus so they can focus.  They're trying to get order into their lives.

They tend to be bright, very observant .......... of everything at once, which is why you get the impression of a short attention span.  What would you do if you were constantly flooded with information overload?  It takes a lot of energy to bat away that information overload.

My thoughts:  Keep distractions to a minimum.  That includes shiny dangling earrings, squeaky shoes.  No colour coding.  That's another thing he has to figure out: "I have notes and spaces, what are the colours about?"  Maybe one single theme that you are working on, but allow that theme to develop in depth.

I seem to understand that autistic people love patterns and look for them.

Social cues don't exist.  Things are taken literally.  A nod and smile, which means "Good, you are doing well, carry on." may be meaningless.  You may have to spell it out.  We do a surprising number of things with little signals and routines.  The autistic person might not get that.

Maybe some of this will be right?

[Bob]

And a routine.  I didn't mind that so much since my lessons already have a pattern that I tend to reuse and just change out the material. 

But break that routine and you might be in trouble.

You might just spend the time practicing for them or reviewing everything.  Maybe give them a recording and teach it to them in bits every lesson.  They might not practice at all at home or might just run straight through the piece once a day. 

And maybe once a week isn't right.  Maybe it's two or three times a week.

[term]

Maybe some of this will be right?

Yes it's quite a good start. 
But don't take everything for granted, you can keep that in mind, but have to first approach an autist - depending on the severety of the syndrome - as a human being who is as different as everybody else.
Hence, autism is not at all only about patterns. Your analogy with the grocery is inaccurate in the sense that what you describe is the mere ability of simultaneus processing of information, which can basically be learned by anybody, but may well be more common with autists, who knows? But when i listen to bach, i listen to 4 voices at a time, and so can i do with 4 people talking without being autistic. Plus, you have to keep in mind that the perception of patterns is something everybody does and needs to do, since it is necessary to make associations.
Some autists are specialized, so if you call them observant, they are in their field if interest. Otherwise not necessarily. A number of autists are cabable of having a good & free conversation contrary to what is believed to be intrinsically autistic. Then there is that thing with taking things literally, which is not necessarily and on all levels an autistic trait. In addition to that, there are degrees of autism (also called the autistic spectrum) which is very important to apply in your understanding of that very individual person in front of you.
So basically, you should approach an autistic person just like everybody else, but maybe keep in mind that this is a person who has a few more quirks than usual. I think thats a safe way to get in contact with anybody.

[keypeg]

But when i listen to bach, i listen to 4 voices at a time, and so can i do with 4 people talking without being autistic

         Yes, I am aware of that.  This is a skill that we actually try to acquire as future musicians, and I'm only partly there.  It is not necessarily "4 voices" - it can be keeping several aspects of music in mind at the same time while you develop and play it.
        The difference is that the autistic person will have all these things coming at him all the time indiscriminately, like a cacaphony.  The trained musician selects and directs.
        I agree with approaching an autistic person as an individual. I find the Wikipedia article distressing.  I can see someone trying to suppress all these symptoms, and seeing them as a disease, with unfortunate results.
       I think that being aware of a few essential things can be very helpful.  An autistic person is easily distracted and over-stimulated.  You don't want to use the approach that you might want to use with a slow, dull mind: "stimulation", frequent change of pace, loudness of voice, lots of bright colours and varied things.  These would lead to overload.
      I actually have the thought that some aspects of autism can be advantages or strengths that can be channelled.  The extreme awareness, sensitity, and focus, for example.  Possibly a more abstract mind that focusses on concepts, patterns of things - and then to balance this out while you interact.

[term]

Well, the point i was trying to make is that there barely are any definite reference points so that you can describe what an autist feels, thinks and does and why exactly. The symptoms, such as repetitive behaviour, increased stress, narrow fields of interests and others are indeed defining autism, but since the individuals are different, i don't see how you know that an autist has a flood of information coming at him he cannot handle. Especially since we're talking about a spectrum that goes from mentally retarded to so called high functioning, with, again, a way of perception that is as different as that of any other person.

[keypeg]

.... i don't see how you know that an autist has a flood of information coming at him he cannot handle. Especially since we're talking about a spectrum that goes from mentally retarded to so called high functioning,

The problem here is that we don't know where anyone is coming from.  If an "expert" were to post it would be preferable.  I am not an expert, and I don't know your background.  There is a piano teacher who is about to teach an autistic child, and a little bit of guidance is better than none at all.

"How I know"?  By talking to a few autistic people on the high end side, and understanding their perceptions. Several are involved in music.  The perception of "flood of information" so far seems universal.  In my post here I have described what I have learned from the individuals with whom I have been involved.  I hope that some information is better than no information.  I also have training in learning disability education.  That is why I have dared write a few words.

I have no idea about spectrums.  Are these symptoms or conditions?  What I mean is, a mentally retarded person generally is a person who has little capacity for understanding.  However, if an autistic person is overwhelmed by information flood that cannot be organized, he would function like a person who has no mental capacity, but he may have excess capacity with no way of organizing his perceptions.  The spectrums wouldn't do much.

Supposing that it is generally true that in general autistic people need quiet and order, rather than noise, stimulation, and variety.  At least that is the beginning of getting a handle on it.  It's a beginning approach.  After that you get to know the person and you start adjusting.

[Bob]

I've worked with a few.  I wouldn't even believe everything an expert says.  Maybe an expert practitioner -- music teacher specializing in sutdents with special needs. 

Even still, just do it and see what happens.  Be smart about things.  Everyone's unique.

[keypeg]

Bob, would you say an autistic person might be a good expert on autism?

[slobone]

I think autism can be very different in different kids. For sure you should talk to the parents and his teachers to find out what works & doesn't work with him. Should be a fascinating challenge!

By the way, I saw a TV show about "idiot savants" which I think might be an old term for many autistic people. One of them was a real wiz on the piano -- he was nearly blind but he could play almost anything by ear, including classical pieces.

[Bob]

Bob, would you say an autistic person might be a good expert on autism?

Not really.  I'd say go on what you see and figure out, not on what anyone else says.  I had a student I was told couldn't read music, would never be able to read music, blah, blah, blah... You know what the result was.  She could.  If it was blown up and beginner stuff.  Actually I remember another student, same thing happened. 

Maybe go in and try the traditional approach a bit, but have an extremely simplified version ready too and you'll probably end up doing something with the modified version. 

I'm not an expert at all.  I just wouldn't believe everything until I see it for myself. 

I would back off right away if I sensed any frustration though.  They might be feeling a lot more frustration. 

[term]

"How I know"?  By talking to a few autistic people on the high end side, and understanding their perceptions. Several are involved in music.  The perception of "flood of information" so far seems universal.

Well, fair enough.  If they said it, they know. That was the major point where i disagreed, other than that, i didn't mean to say that you don't have insight into the matter. Being autistic myself, i was just trying to put generalised outside views into perpective, without suggesting that i have actual expertise of any kind.

[keypeg]

Thanks for that explanation, Term, I respect that.  I was trying to walk a fine line myself.  What I didn't want to see happening is someone getting an impression from Wikipedia and trying to apply that, or to think they are dealing with a slow learner or such.  Since people will be working with some impression, what do you do?

I know that in education we have a tendency to "stimulate", "make it interesting" and serve things up in little bytes of knowledge like endless commercial breaks - things that personally I do not like as a student or a teacher.  I have a feeling that stimulus, excitement, frequent changes of direction would NOT be good for most autistic people.  And being treated as people would be good too.  What do you think of that?

[gyzzzmo]

As far as i know, 'Structure' is most important, making every lesson go the same makes it easier to teach for you, and for him to follow you.

[term]

I know that in education we have a tendency to "stimulate", "make it interesting" and serve things up in little bytes of knowledge like endless commercial breaks - things that personally I do not like as a student or a teacher.  I have a feeling that stimulus, excitement, frequent changes of direction would NOT be good for most autistic people.  And being treated as people would be good too.  What do you think of that?

If i correctly understand your teaching philosophy, it's holistic in the sense that you have a clear and coherent line you follow in order to achieve the goal; and that you present not only content, but how it is linked with other pieces of information. ? If so, i can fully agree with you, not only with regard to autists. As to the excitement, i don't know, if the student is into the matter with dedication, the teacher can get right down to the core. May well be the case if you teach autists what they already love to do (all day). Otherwise, a little push from the teacher isn't bad in order to teach a student devotion where there's just interest.
Keeping a lesson relaxed and straightforward, as you said, is also a good idea.

What I didn't want to see happening is someone getting an impression from Wikipedia and trying to apply that, or to think they are dealing with a slow learner or such.  Since people will be working with some impression, what do you do?

As i percieve public perception of autism, it has become fashionable in a wierd modern way. I've actually read statements like 'cool i wanna have autism', referring to the cliche that every autist has some kind of genius (superhero) ability. Therefore, i do not dare to utter that word outside of the internet, since as a consequence i would be treated differently.^^

[keypeg]

Term, I am a former teacher, and I still teach one-on-one.  Musically I am mostly an adult student.  When I was in the school system it seemed that we were supposed to "stimulate" and this was an offshoot to a degree from the Sesame Street and similar experimemt.  I did not like it then and still don't like it.  I'm talking about something rather superficial: bright colours, cheery voice with lots of expression, sounding excited about what you are teaching, bringing in extra things because what you are teaching could not possibly interesting in and of itself.

As a student I abhor that kind of thing.  I could easily spend half an hour or more working through something difficult, or delving into something deep.  I don't want to be titillated with fun music, and flashy rhythms.  This to me is not exciting - it's distracting and annoying.

I like to work quietly, calmly, focussed and really push and get into whatever I'm learning.  There is a different kind of "excitement" there.  I don't know whether we're on the same page.

[term]

Maybe - as students. 
If you love something, you can be very serious and focused about it . If not, you need that push to discover in which way the subject is 'exciting' to you.
Now, i guess the difference you're talking about is the one between fun and pleasure, with the latter being deeper and more profound. I think every deep pleasure starts out as fun, be it in your childhood or just simply because as an adult you discovered how to play a tune you like on the piano.
The sesame street method is a way to get started, its superficial, and, as a matter of course, one should get over it as soon as possible. But in case it also provides substance, there's nothing inherently wrong with it, except that students who already are one step further get bored and annyoed, which may have been the case with you.
But learning should be serious business as much as it should just be fun, imo.

[pianowelsh]

much of my teaching is based on observation... with the aim of self teaching as its ultimate goal. As I understand this may lend itself well to autistics if they are able to perceive patterns clearly?!?

[slobone]

Well again, my understanding is that the label autism actually covers a wide range of behaviors and constraints. Better get as much information as you can about this particular pupil before starting lessons or you could be in deep water very soon.

[drjames]

This is quite a difficult topic.  I follow several autistic children in my practice. Probably more than I know considering that there are very mild cases that are hard to recognize without thorough evaluation.  I see autistic kids who are impossible to communicate with and difficult to examine (yet delightful to be around.)  Would they be candidates for piano lessons?  I doubt it but it wouldn't surprise me to see some fascinating results if you put them at a piano and showed them what it could do.  On the other hand I have seen some autistic kids that just during the course of a typical office visit I could not tell there was any problem at all.  I'm sure they would be perfectly reasonable candidates for piano lessons.  This is why we use the term autistic spectrum disorder (among others).  I think that as with all potential students you have to meet them, try a few lessons, see what works and what doesn't, make adjustments and try again.  There is just as much variation among autistic kids as all other kids.  Just look through the topics in this section and see all the problems teachers have with students who are not autistic.  I think your experience with an autistic student will be unique (aren't they all?), but not necessarily more or less difficult than could happen with anyone else.  James

[tds]

i used to be mildly autistic, but somehow i recovered from it. i was damn difficult to teach in the beginning, as my early teachers has testified.

[hyrst]

Great post, Dr James.  Thanks
Very clear and sensible

[anna_crusis]

I don't think it matters, really. Mild autism in one child might well be less of an impediment than too much energy or terrible manners in a 'normal' child.

It's rare that I get a perfectly adjusted model student. Occasionally you strike gold, but usually most students have deficiencies whether they be mental, physical or psychological. Mild autism doesn't sound that much of a problem to me. Just try and focus on what he CAN do.

[chopininov]

Are you referring to Asperger's Syndrome? If so, the child shouldn't need much "special" treatment. Just be sure to read up on some the characteristics of this disease.

Many times kids with Asperger's don't understand the social graces and conformities expressed by others (i.e. smiling when you pass someone on the street, euphemistic language, or even telling if someone is uninterested in something).
Historically, this has been misinterpreted as being rude and disrespectful. It's not, and the worst thing you could do is punish them for this.

I've also found that a lot of times they have "things"; hobbies that they invest a lot of time and energy into. You could say that my younger cousin with Asperger's "likes" trains, but this would be an extreme understatement. A more accurate description would be that he is a train eccentric. He knows when they were made, what model they are, what they're used for, who their manufacturers are, how they work, etc...

Anyways, these are just a couple things i've noticed and read about people with Asperger's. Hopefully it will help you.

[healdie]

I myself have Aspergers symdrome and i think that chopininov  last post is very good i do not feel i need special treament and i hate it when people are patronizing in their manner, so my advice is get to know the student and don't treat them different at first if the partents or them specify that they need it then do it but read books and gain a basic insight into it, i had to memorize facial expressions i still don;'t understand them i often get into trouble at school and college for my lack of empathy, i recently shouted at a boy at college when he was upset because his girlfriend left him, this was later explained to me i don't understand why he got so uposet but i have never had a girlfreind so i am rather niaeve on the subject, i am also very particular in what i will wear i have 2 pairs of trousers and 2 t shirst and 1 jacket and a pair of shoes, and i will not go into certain shops. I am also prown to bizare behaivour when in uncomfartable situations such as loud and crowded. hope this helps but the best advice is not to punish because the disorder as people often think i am been rude and ignorant when i am not

[romagister]

Greetings from Romania !

I'm 33 years old, diagnosed 2 years ago with Asperger's Syndrome/mild autism but think I had it all my life. 7 years experience teaching (applied math in economics). Now self-teaching keyboard, now also have moderate technical interest/perseveration (like my 3rd perseveration area...) in pipe organs.

I had some months of formal piano lessons at 8-9 years old but got frustrated and stopped.

What I can tell you, besides the very good advice already here (avoid clutter etc) is to expect peaks and valleys of abilities and challenges, not too well connected. And yes, everyone is different, even if being assigned the same 'label'.
For instance, my voice, melody memory and right hand were and are well coupled and fluent, but everything else (sight reading, left hand) either clumsy or SLOW by conscious processing. Adding enough challenges of any kind (especially key signatures, but also independent parallel lines, anything with left hand, chords, jumps, unusual rhythm patterns...) leads to major bottlenecks in real-time multitasking, firstly derailing tempo.

As long as I used the easy skills progress was deceptively fast (start was with Thompson's 1955 "Dwarves"), leading to expectations of easy continuation, badly frustrated when new mechanisms were needed which were not as accessible. Old fashioned exercises (Pischna, Czerny, Beyer) added to the frustration.
Also, I was very inquisitive for WHY ? HOW ? WHAT ? and theoretical (knew about logarithms for equal temperament when the teacher didn't) but eye-hand coordination much clumsier than intellectual processing, and hard to progress with willpower alone. Several times I complained about the illogicallity of conventional music notation... My inflexibility clashed with the old lady's different kind of inflexibility, so stopping was unavoidable.

Sensory differences yes, my hearing is keen for very un-loud sounds, and awed by loud (pipe organ) but a typical disco is painful. I can really appreciate Bach etc. but cannot hear too clearly separated the parallel counterpoint lines. The worst is superposed human talking, like at a party, symposium etc.

Now got a more modern keyboard, and getting back some motivation and mild progress with a modern gentle method like Nancy & Randall Faber - Adult Piano Adventures vol. 2 (perfect to continue where I had left). Wonderful didactics ! and enough explanations for self-teaching.
I found necessary to pre-analyze all sheets to write the key #/b's explicitly if there is to be any chance of coupling them with reading in real time. (Any professional counter-indication to that?)
I have enough other sheet music that interests my self, some old-official from here, some printed from the Net, some easier arrangements... light classical, pop, all sorts.
Seeking advice on how to 'hear' and arrange the accompaniment for more complex 'wall of sound' pieces, like those of ABBA.

[slobone]

romagister, I'm curious whether you ever try to play by ear. I wonder if that wouldn't be easier for somebody with your combination of challenges.

Of course, you can't really learn to play specific classical pieces by ear, but you can certainly increase your general musical awareness and for technical issues like melody vs. accompaniment, dynamics, tempo, playing with a steady rhythm, and just generally learning to be comfortable at the keyboard.

Your situation just cries out for alternative approaches to piano playing, and I hope you can find a teacher who's skillful enough, and flexible enough, to help you figure out what to do.

[romagister]

Yes, in the long dabbling period all I tried to figure was 'by ear', even now I'm playing 60-90% by ear ! but that still leads to occasional wrong notes, esp. for surprising jumps (is that a 4th or 5th ?) so I use reading more as a confirmation and memory aid, and first entry of melody information into memory. Not perfect or even fluent, but not totally impossible either.

I haven't yet met a teacher not worse for me than myself ;-) so I'm still trying...

I'm not aiming now very high, at heavy classics (Rachmaninov etc.) but some simpler or slower classic pieces yes. Bach's Minuet in G, now "Jesu, Joy" (didn't have it solidly before 'picked up' by ear), Albinoni's Adagio (both in Gm and arranged in Am)...
I try to mix pieces I know with some new to really exercise reading, but gently.

Some time ago I got a perseveration on Pachelbel's Canon and collected some 5 arrangements from the Net. Firstly, the D key (two #) derailed me a bit, fortunately there are arrangements in C (now like the most the one at end of "Piano Adventures" vol 2). I can do easily the chord progression, and a few variants (with arpeggios instead, Alberti patterns, switching LH and RH etc.) but the 1/16 passages still overwhelm me.
Speed is harder for me than just complexity.

I found a mentor teacher on the other side of the world, with direct knowledge of such situations.
I share experiences and ask technical questions, and she keeps sustaining motivation...
The pieces there are also varied and fun to practice !
http://jeanies_home_studio.tripod.com/

[term]

Greetings from Romania !<