Trained Piano Monkeys

[ahmedito]

Trained piano monkeys! That's what you all are. There are less than 10 people here who do not fit that description  (by what Ive seen you write here, for all I know you could be musical plumbers or zoo keepers or whatever).

The rest of you are trained piano monkeys. You churn out the same repertoire day in and day out. You think your five beloved composers are the only music possible and fail to see anything beyond that. You can't judge on your own what good music is and simply think that those same five composers are gods who never did wrong and everything else is not as good. You wouldn't know good music if it bit you in the ass. You focus on playing all the notes, and when talking of interpretation you make such superficial and shallow questions. Its almost as if you're purposely trying to avoid doing anything new, heartfelt or generous.

Im sure I could train monkeys to play the piano better, and evenif not, why would I want to do that? I've got you guys.

If you're offended, think: Am I specifically refering to you? If you think so, then maybe the shoe fits too well.

[Nana_Ama]

what was that for?
Are you having a bad day?

[Saturn]

[Tash]

oh well maybe so to some point but hey i enjoy it and that's fine by me right now. though i'm always looking for new composers to discover cos they're all gods to me

[Motrax]

Andrew? Is that you?  

In any case, I would disagree somewhat. There are 10ish people who've honestly good advice and appreciation for music, but there're also a number of people who generally don't ask or answer questions, and who's appreciation for music is still just fine, but you couldn't tell off the bat since all they talk about is performing almost-naked.  

Then there's the number of 8-year-olds who, after finishing Liszt's concertos, Rachmaninoff's 1st and 3rd, and Brahms' 2nd, ask if they're ready for a Chopin etude.  

[rlefebvr]

Oh, look....another 12 year old trying to get the forum all riled up, just to see how many people respond to inane comments.

Ahmedito, The Piano King. The legend (in his own mind).

The one and only who knows anything and everything about music while the rest of us brainlessly hit the keyboard cause it's there and we don't know any better.

There, are just gave you your five minutes of fame.

Now go away. Go far away and never come back.

What did you say......

I said...go away and never come back.

We told him to go away and he did....

or did he....

[Bachtopus]

Awww man...when i saw this post i was truly excited, but what a false advertisement it is...I though we were going to actually see a video or something of monkeys that were trained to play piano. Oh well I knew it was too good to be true.

[ahmedito]

Hmmm... so far here are the results:

- Nana_ama does not think she is a trained piano monkey, nor anyone else and assumes Im having a bad day. I was in a pretty good mood actually, but Im sick of seeing so many 12 year olds bragging about their Rach 3, so many idiots say Mozart is crap and all that kind of stuff.... hence, I think you are piano monkeys (which is the best adjective I can find for this kind of thinking)... right now, I KNOW I used to be a trained piano monkey myself, maybe I still am and don't realize it.

- Saturn laughs, which  I think is exactly what an intelligent person would do. Take it personally, most probably you are a piano simian.

- Tash admits he is a monkey to some degree. I disagree though, your diamond tiara is way too funny to make you a monkey in my eyes.

- Motrax hits the nail right in the head with the last part of his post. Those of you who don't talk about the piano here but prefer to engage in games (as I do lately) I woldn't know if you're a monkey unless your post looks something like this:

"I'm a piano monkey."

or something like this:

"Ballade for Adeline kicks ass!!!"  

I have seen only 10 people or less who I completely and positively disqualify as piano monkeys though. Some of you are still on the doubtful side. Most of you can go climb an ape and play Für Elise though.

- rlefvbr took this so personally though, that I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the middle of a jungle somewhere enjoying his piano songs though. By the way, check the introduction. Im 22 years old, and Ive been posting here so long I really don't have any reason to look for my "15 minutes of fame". I posted this because I think what I said. Maybe it offends you because the shoe fits?!

- ChopinBallade, if I ever see a video of trained piano monkeys, Ill be sure to post it here, just realized what a funny sight it would be. Or you could just ask rlefvbr to give a recital.  

So... will this stupid thread die?, or will there be some other idiot out there to take it personally?

[Antnee]

Although some of us may be steaming from this post which has 'insulted' us (only of you chose to be so of course), Ahmedito is right. Day after day, the same repertoire comes up, and the same questions are asked over and over. Nonsense threads such as Mozart is a horrible composer or Horowitz = Lifeless serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever. The forum needs to wake up and quit this nonsense. As for the composer business, yes there are a few that remain the subject of discussion over and over, but it has been this way for many years and occasionally lesser knowns are brought up. I know every time I see a new name, I write it down and research them later ( or then if I have the time). But we really should stop all the pointless discussions around here. As this one is starting to become one too, I will move on...

-Tony-

[Rob47]

I don't know Ahmedito who are the 5 composer's you are talking about? If i had to guess I wou say Liszt, and Chopin are there for sure.  Who the other 3 could be I dont know. Probably Mr. Rachmaninov is there, my boy Ludwig van. What about Mozart and Bach? Brahms? Schubert? I'm sure lots of people on  this board love playing impressionistic music by Claude and Mo Ravel.  I know myself and arturobc and probably others are learning the wonders of Stravinsky through his transcription of Petrouchka. at least 100 people on this board worship that crazy mo fo Scriabin. What about those Latin Lover's Granados and Albeniz? Who hasn't at least attempted one of granados' Goyesca's?  And I'm sure lots of people go to sheetmusicarchive.net and check out all those composer's piano works and dabble around with people I've never heard of until then. Griffe? Who is Charles Tomlinson Griffe?I just started messing about with his "The NIght Winds."  I got to say its pretty interesting music.

Anyway that's not important.  I was actually just wondering who the 5 composer's dominating everybody except 10 people on this forum's repertoire are. and who are the 10 people? Bernharrd?  How can Bernhard judge what "good music" is better than I? He's extremely knowedgeable but he can't! No one can! Because everyone thinks and regards what is good music differently.  Matt_black for example, was ridiculed by many, maybe even myself, for his taste and beliefs, but we have no right to do that. Who are we? The Internet Music Aristocracy? Dictatorship rather? So what if people love the same 5 composers? you go ahead and suggest people look at other composer's and they will. Don't call them trained piano monkey's because they love Chopin and Liszt.  You love chopin and liszt too!  Have you learned every single piece by both Liszt and Chopin? I'll bet most people haven't heard every piece by each composer.

This is not a jab at you are Bernhard. Just a question.


your friend
Rob

[ahmedito]

Take it as you may, RondoAllaTony couldnt have said it better. Why is it that the stupid threats like this are the ones that get the most answers? or the one I started about teaching a squid to play the piano some time ago.... meanwhile more helpful insightful topics (as the ones started by MaylaFox, who's opinion I greatly admire) dont get nearly half the attention than something like this gets. I wont justify my opinion. I believe that instead of pianoforum.net, this should be called the pianomonkeyhouse.net

Im amazed how Bernhard jumps to mind as one of the ten non-monkeys. Sounds logical though. If you think there are more than 10 non-monkeys here, Ill believe you, but does it really matter?. Are you not a monkey yourself rob? Had to ask though... think about it. You mention the fact that many members here love Debussy, Ravel, Bach, etc. PPFFHHHHTTTTT  .... thats bull excrement. If I ever see nearly as many posts here about Bach as Ive seen about good old Franz, Frederic and Sergei, Ill quit the piano and become a clockmaker instead.

Now... if you're feeling offended and insulted, prove you're not a monkey. Instead of writing a response here about how Ive made you feel bad and all that go post an answer to one of MaylaFox's threads, ask a meaningful question about a piece of reperoire you're actually playing, post a thought that you think will help us all become better pianists, look through some of the more helpful technique posts or simply go practice. If youre really feeling insulted, send me a private message and Ill make sure to read it though and answer you personally.


Ive been posting here a while and some stuff about this forum annoys SO much. Its like a gathering of Kissin clones. If I had a nickel for every 12 year old here who plays Rach 3, Id buy myself a new Steinway grand.

[Tash]

one thing- i am a SHE not a HE!a guy in a tiara is just not cool (no offence to drag queens) but thankyou for not calling me a monkey. i am here for humour cos i don't believe i know enough to attempt to give a lot of advice on pieces and how to play them but like to read what others have to say.
and judging people by their posts is just silly cos if you're like me then you are better at expression whatever wants to be said through things like the piano or painting or whatever than with words, ie. anything i attempt to say will sound like rubbish and isn't exactly my point anyway.
responding to threads like this is popular because people like to debate and argue about things, just a part of human nature and we cannot help but defend ourselves and our opinions

[mozartgonebad]

any person that takes that seriously IS way too serious

[Nana_Ama]

Hmmm... so far here are the results:

- Nana_ama does not think she is a trained piano monkey, nor anyone else and assumes Im having a bad day. I was in a pretty good mood actually, but Im sick of seeing so many 12 year olds bragging about their Rach 3, so many idiots say Mozart is crap and all that kind of stuff.... hence, I think you are piano monkeys (which is the best adjective I can find for this kind of thinking)... right now, I KNOW I used to be a trained piano monkey myself, maybe I still am and don't realize it.

Okay well, I know I am not trained... I've only been taking lessons for about two years...  
Second, I don't  brag, or I dont try to anyway
I like Mozart!
and... my teacher gives me all types of music to play

[rlefebvr]

Hmmm... so far here are the results:

- rlefvbr took this so personally though, that I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the middle of a jungle somewhere enjoying his piano songs though. By the way, check the introduction. Im 22 years old, and Ive been posting here so long I really don't have any reason to look for my "15 minutes of fame". I posted this because I think what I said. Maybe it offends you because the shoe fits?!

Actually, I am not offended and I do agree with some of what you said. I just don't see the need to make such lewd remarks.

It's close to September and that means lots of new faces in the forum as kids go back to the piano. Lots of new and old less then adequate questions. Lots of Mozart and Rach 3.

You could have found 10 different ways of approaching the subject in a positive manner, instead you choose a very negative approach with very little thought to it. At least as far as what you wrote.


You may be 22, but your post showed a strong lack of maturity and respect. Most of your reply's later in this thread are much more to the point and give a truer account of what you wanted to say, without the childish verbal abuse you started the thread with. This could have been a very interesting thread, instead it quickly turned to mush before it could even get started.

P.S. I can't play my piano in the jungle. It's digital.

But that's o.k. the "songs" I play, Cheetah can sing for me.

(You won't get that your too young. Heck you even missed my Dirty Harry reference in my first post.)

[DarkWind]

I really like Ravel, Liszt, Beethoven, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Ligeti, Brahms, etc.

I named seven, not five!!! What do I win?

Also Ahmedito, I hope you notice that just about all my posts contain Ravel's name in them, so I'm one of the few that do truly talk about him (and just wont shutup ).

I might be 14, but I'm no monkey.

[ahmedito]

So basically heres the recount from the people on this thread:

1 accusing maybe a monkey (thats me, if you need it said more clearly)

5 people who are sure they are not monkeys.

1 who thinks they may be, but are not sure.

1 person to whom I apologize for calling a he instead of a she. Somehow I was picturing a naked male in a diamond tiara playing the piano... ugh. Thats just not a nice picture.

1 person who took the original post a bit too seriously. So you're a serious monkey then...   (Dirty Harry? whats that, never heard of it. Bear in mind I'm not from an english speaking country.)

[Saturn]

I do have a serious question regarding this topic.

Trained piano monkeys! That's what you all are. There are less than 10 people here who do not fit that description  (by what Ive seen you write here, for all I know you could be musical plumbers or zoo keepers or whatever).

The rest of you are trained piano monkeys. You churn out the same repertoire day in and day out. You think your five beloved composers are the only music possible and fail to see anything beyond that. You can't judge on your own what good music is and simply think that those same five composers are gods who never did wrong and everything else is not as good. You wouldn't know good music if it bit you in the ass. You focus on playing all the notes, and when talking of interpretation you make such superficial and shallow questions. Its almost as if you're purposely trying to avoid doing anything new, heartfelt or generous.

This could apply not only to musicians, but to just about anyone.  Most people go through their lives only doing what is comfortable, and being content to see only what is on the surface.  Most people never do anything "new" in whatever it is that they do.

So my question is this:  is it worse to be unoriginal in music than to be unoriginal in any other activity?  Should musicians be expected to be better than normal people?

If my question is unclear, let me know and I'll try to reword it.

- Saturn

[Tash]

yeah i agree with that. i hate it when people focus on a bad aspect in ONE area, eg. a couple of girls at my school for their art major works based it on the idea that ballet has become to based on striving for perfection and has lost its emotion and freedom it once had. BUT with that statement, of course there are going to be people who have forgotten about the emotion it has in it, but it's not completely lost and i use my sister as an example (btw she is not a musical 'idiot' as i can't remember who wrote in a thread a few months ago, i made sure of that and she is now always thinking about the music she's dancing to etc. this is going off my point)

anyway so with that statement of ballet, however that is the same in ANY area so why just pay out one?the world is full of the so called 'monkeys'

xox tash (a female member of the forum )

[bernhard]

A rare picture of Bernhard, training hard for his forthcoming recital of Rach 3 (the reduction for two pianos - he will play both, since just one was far too easy).

[ted]

Excellent Bernhard ! Actually, now that I think about it, I do live near the zoo, and have been a member there for many years. Also, when I visit I usually spend much time observing the primates. I eat a lot of bananas, sometimes make horrible grunting noises during improvisation and my wife often refers to me as an ape.

[Tash]

A rare picture of Bernhard, training hard for his forthcoming recital of Rach 3 (the reduction for two pianos - he will play both, since just one was far too easy).

LOL

and now we know what bernhard really looks like!

[Rob47]

Take it as you may, RondoAllaTony couldnt have said it better. Why is it that the stupid threats like this are the ones that get the most answers? or the one I started about teaching a squid to play the piano some time ago.... meanwhile more helpful insightful topics (as the ones started by MaylaFox, who's opinion I greatly admire) dont get nearly half the attention than something like this gets. I wont justify my opinion. I believe that instead of pianoforum.net, this should be called the pianomonkeyhouse.net

Im amazed how Bernhard jumps to mind as one of the ten non-monkeys. Sounds logical though. If you think there are more than 10 non-monkeys here, Ill believe you, but does it really matter?. Are you not a monkey yourself rob? Had to ask though... think about it. You mention the fact that many members here love Debussy, Ravel, Bach, etc. PPFFHHHHTTTTT  .... thats bull excrement. If I ever see nearly as many posts here about Bach as Ive seen about good old Franz, Frederic and Sergei, Ill quit the piano and become a clockmaker instead.

Now... if you're feeling offended and insulted, prove you're not a monkey. Instead of writing a response here about how Ive made you feel bad and all that go post an answer to one of MaylaFox's threads, ask a meaningful question about a piece of reperoire you're actually playing, post a thought that you think will help us all become better pianists, look through some of the more helpful technique posts or simply go practice. If youre really feeling insulted, send me a private message and Ill make sure to read it though and answer you personally.


Ive been posting here a while and some stuff about this forum annoys SO much. Its like a gathering of Kissin clones. If I had a nickel for every 12 year old here who plays Rach 3, Id buy myself a new Steinway grand.

Touche Ahmedito. I suppose I am a piano monkey.

your friend
Rob

[Peachy_Keen]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a piano monkey. There are players and there are composers, and there are players who are composers. A composer won't fault a player for not being interested in composition, the same way a player wouldn't fault a composer for not being interested in expanding his repertoire.

It just depends on what you want in life.

[ahmedito]

huh?

Thats not what I meant at all... you seem to think that I say that pianists are piano monkeys, and composers aren't.... meanwhile, Ive seen all sorts of composer monkeys here as well, just churning the same stuff pianists have been writing since Liszt.

[pianostring]

I quote Tarzan's girlfriend Jane -- "Shut up monkeys, I'm trying to sing!"  

What a great thread.  

At first I thought you, Ahmedito, were the idiot; but the replies, including yours, were the best reading I've seen on here in quite awhile.

[Swan]

"Ballade for Adeline kicks ass!!!"  

You mean it doesn't?  



...and what do you mean FIVE composers!! Holy Cow!  That's a LOT!

Of course, if you get really peeved off with this forum, you could always leave ... but be sure to come back again with a different username!  It is tradition.  

[ahmedito]

Me leave?

But monkeys are so funny.

[thracozaag]

Me leave?

But monkeys are so funny.

 Toss me a banana, Bubbles.

koji (STSD)

[super_ardua]

I would have more faith in peoples' nature to explore and invent ahmendito.

[ahmedito]

I have a lot of faith in people's ability to discover and explore. Just no faith in monkeys to do so. I really would like to see less monkeys here. Im starting to realize though, that my initial number of 10 people is a bit low. It