Which Hanon exercise for 4th and 5th fingers

[Toshiyo]

I know they are good exercises to strengthen them but can anyone recommend any specific Hanon exericse?  (not sure which one to start)

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!

[xvimbi]

The best is to do them all, every day, for about two hours before practice, lifting the fingers very high up and pressing them down with all the strength you have while holding the forearm and the wrist absolutely rigid and tense.

Then find a good doctor, because you'll need surgery.

Seriously, search for "Hanon" on this forum, and you will find out what people really think about it  and the 3/4/5-finger myths.

[jazzyprof]

Toshiyo, here's a quote from Riccardo's post in the thread "Can you help me":

Now my technic is not good. In an effort to improve it some time ago I took out my old HANON! After a week I caught a tendonitis.

[MarkAllison]

I know they are good exercises to strengthen them but can anyone recommend any specific Hanon exericse?  (not sure which one to start)

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!

I'm quite new round here but I've heard from many different sources that Hanon should be avoided. Here's a quote from Mr Chang:

"Hanon is possibly the prime example of how intuitive methods can suck entire populations of pianists into using methods that are essentially useless, or even harmful."

The quote was taken from here:
http://members.aol.com/chang8828/exercises.htm

[piano88]

Hanon are good, but in small doses. The guy who said two hours a day is crazy! For technique, scales etc are the best. Specifically for the 4th and 5th fingers, I would personally recommend Brahms 51Exercises - no. 8 is particularly good for these fingers.
Good luck!
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[piano88]

The best is to do them all, every day, for about two hours before practice, lifting the fingers very high up and pressing them down with all the strength you have while holding the forearm and the wrist absolutely rigid and tense.

And NEVER hold the arm and wrist "rigid and tense"....thats the worst advice ever!
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[Nina_too]

If you're looking for something to build strength and independence for 4th and 5th fingers, I think Pischna is a better bet than Hanon.  IMO, Hanon will improve dexterity and speed, but not necessarily strength.

Pischna is designed specifically for finger independence.  You need to relax and play them SLOWLY.  It's not a race to the finish, like Hanon can be.

Check it out, or talk to your teacher about it, if you have one (a teacher that is!).

[Torvald]

I am sorry but what is Hanon? Is this exercise like Czerny?

[anda]

If you're looking for something to build strength and independence for 4th and 5th fingers, I think Pischna is a better bet than Hanon.  IMO, Hanon will improve dexterity and speed, but not necessarily strength.

Pischna is designed specifically for finger independence.  You need to relax and play them SLOWLY.  It's not a race to the finish, like Hanon can be.

Check it out, or talk to your teacher about it, if you have one (a teacher that is!).

for a beginner? pischna will do all the harm hanon didn't manage to. just as bad.

"exercises" like hanon and pischna (and hertz as well) should be forbidden to beginers. ruins them right from the start.

[Nina_too]

Why?  What "harm" would they do?  If you're talking about physical injury, I've known more people who've injured their hands playing repertoire than doing exercises.

If done slowly, I don't see the harm Pischna can do--which is why I mentioned right off that Pischna is to be done slowly.  Please let me know what you mean.

[anda]

Why?  What "harm" would they do?  If you're talking about physical injury, I've known more people who've injured their hands playing repertoire than doing exercises.

If done slowly, I don't see the harm Pischna can do--which is why I mentioned right off that Pischna is to be done slowly.  Please let me know what you mean.

i said "forbidden for beginners" - not even these exercises could harm an experienced pianist with good technique (but then again, such a pianist wouldn't need them anymore...)

i am talking about physical injury, and not only: the problem with beginners practicing these exercises is that they try to compensate for their weak and uneven fingers by hitting the keys with a never relaxed arm, resulting in arm pains and a poor quality sound they get used to. beginners always pay attention to eveness of the sounds (rhytmically and dynamically), never to the arms or to the quality of the sound (of course there are exceptions - kids with a great innate ear for sound colour and variety).

[Hmoll]

Why?  What "harm" would they do?  If you're talking about physical injury, I've known more people who've injured their hands playing repertoire than doing exercises.

If done slowly, I don't see the harm Pischna can do--which is why I mentioned right off that Pischna is to be done slowly.  Please let me know what you mean.

Nina,

There are two very strong elements on this forum that are against exercises like Hanon, Pichna, etc. They are Bernhard and Chang.

Bernhard is a teacher who posts a lot here. Chang wrote a book that is quoted and used a lot on the internet. They both provide a valuable service in the time and energy they devote. I have a lot of respect for what they say.

I agree with a lot they say, but not about exercises. Hanon, Czerny, Pichna, etc. on their own won't cause injuries. Practicing them the wrong way can cause damage (practicing anything the wrong way can). Their view is technique is better acquired through study of actual music, and not exercises and etudes, and Hanon et al is a waste of time. I think that's too didactic a view, and think you can improve using these exercises provided it is done in a creative way under the direction of a good teacher. Turning your back on them is simply ignoring another tool you would otherwise have at your disposal.

[Nina_too]

hmoll-- thanks for the background.

anda--I have no argument with what you've posted here.  I agree, doing any exercise the wrong way can cause physical injury.  Some of that can be avoided by going slowly, but the best way to avoid injury is to have a teacher who can quickly point out mistakes the student is making.

I tend to agree that technique can be learned more entertainingly by studying actual repertoire, but for specific problems (like fingers 4-5), there are specific things to do, Pischna being one of them.

But I wholeheartedly am in your camp that exercises must be done correctly in order to work and also avoid injury.