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Author Topic: Bach - Invention No. 1  (Read 5712 times)
gfz87
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« on: August 07, 2006, 08:12:20 PM »
Hi everybody. I'm Gian Franco, I play the piano since February, this year. Please, send me suggestions about any mistake that I probably do playing this piece.  Thanks and bye. By the way, I play on a Clavinova CLP-170, couse I don't have access to an acoustic piano

Gian Franco Zabarino

Flash mp3 player

 * Bach - Invention 1.mp3 (1904.49 KB - downloaded 834 times.)
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piano sheet music of Invention
steve jones
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2006, 08:22:38 PM »

Sounds pretty good. Iv been playing piano about a year longer than you, and I never got this piece much better than you have. So yeah, you appear to be doing very well.

Providing ofcourse you didnt tweak the midi  Grin

SJ
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gfz87
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2006, 08:31:41 PM »
Quote from: steve jones on August 07, 2006, 08:22:38 PM
Providing ofcourse you didnt tweak the midi  Grin

SJ
Cheesy Cheesy of course no! I think it would be a lot better doing that... besides... I could post say the Appassionata midi recorded as an mp3, but I see no fun doing that..  Btw thanks for hearing the piece. Bye

Gian Franco Zabarino
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gonzalo
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2006, 10:55:50 PM »
Hi,

It is overall very good , though I see you're having troubles with the ornaments and you're executing them wrongly. I suggest you read this post by Bernhard:

http://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8015.msg81149.html#msg81149
(ornamentation of invention no. 1)

Apart from that you did a very good job with this invention! So , if you want to learn more about it's analysis and music theory read this:

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2714.msg23310.html#msg23310
(How to teach/learn using invention no 1)


Take care,
Gonzalo.
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gfz87
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 01:01:13 AM »
Wow, that's a lot of info Cheesy . But for what I sow, I cannot really say that I ever listen to a perfomance of that piece with that kind of ornaments... Do you have some recording showing how this is done? Thanks.. Bye

Gian Franco Zabarino
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steve jones
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 01:01:17 AM »
Quote from: gfz87 on August 07, 2006, 08:31:41 PM
Cheesy Cheesy of course no! I think it would be a lot better doing that... besides... I could post say the Appassionata midi recorded as an mp3, but I see no fun doing that..  Btw thanks for hearing the piece. Bye

Gian Franco Zabarino

Oh mate, I wasnt suggesting that you did. Like you say, what would be the point?

I think its sounding very good. You've chosen a good tempo for the piece. Anything much faster begins to sound rushed imo. My edition suggests 120bpm, but that is both difficult to play and sounds bad imo. Around 80 - 105bpm is good.

If you can sort out the ornaments, then you'll have this well in the bag  Smiley

SJ
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gonzalo
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 01:31:52 AM »
Quote from: gfz87 on August 08, 2006, 01:01:13 AM
Wow, that's a lot of info Cheesy . But for what I sow, I cannot really say that I ever listen to a perfomance of that piece with that kind of ornaments... Do you have some recording showing how this is done? Thanks.. Bye

Gian Franco Zabarino

Yes , it is by Rosalyn Tureck. Here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000029YM/ref=pd_rvi_gw_1/102-5358654-0539320?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=5174

1720 version.

Take care,
Gonzalo
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leucippus
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 01:46:12 AM »
I don't know what the norm is but it sounds very good for someone who only started piano in February.  I started a year ago February and I still don't feel that I could play a Bach invention.  But then I have some  severe mental disabilities with respect to concentration and memory so I can't really compare my progress to a normal health person.  Plus I don't have time to practice in the summer hardly at all, I'm really just a winter musician. Grin

I'm very interested in the Bach Inventions though and I may tackle the first one over this next winter.  I would be very pleased with myself if I can play it fluently by next spring.

You did very well, thanks for posting it. Wink
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gfz87
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2006, 02:10:18 AM »
Quote from: leucippus on August 08, 2006, 01:46:12 AM
I don't know what the norm is but it sounds very good for someone who only started piano in February.  I started a year ago February and I still don't feel that I could play a Bach invention.  But then I have some  severe mental disabilities with respect to concentration and memory so I can't really compare my progress to a normal health person.  Plus I don't have time to practice in the summer hardly at all, I'm really just a winter musician. Grin

I'm very interested in the Bach Inventions though and I may tackle the first one over this next winter.  I would be very pleased with myself if I can play it fluently by next spring.

You did very well, thanks for posting it. Wink


Thanks. I'll give you some suggestions to learn this piece, couse I too did find difficult to learn it:
1) First learn hands separete, first with a lower tempo like, 60 bpm (on a half note, that is, 30 bpm on quarters), and then a bit faster to like say 90 bpm (or 45 bpm with quarters).
2) Then go to 50 bpm (or 25 bpm with quarters) and try hands together. If you can't do it, try it slower until you do. Then aument the tempo slowly
3) I also suggest that you separete the piece in three parts, so you focus right on one part a time.
4) After that it's only a matter of time until you will do right

Ok that's it. Hope that this work for you as it did for me. Bye

Gian Franco Zabarino
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steve jones
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2006, 03:29:22 AM »

I found this invention most useful when I really focused on the HS practice. I managed to get it up to 130bpm, but I had to simplify the ornaments somewhat.

Anyway, it did my development not harm at all. You could give No 4 or No 8 a try next, they are both great aswell. And VERY challenging to play at the marked tempo (both around 140bpm I believe).

SJ
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gfz87
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2006, 12:07:46 PM »
Quote from: steve jones on August 08, 2006, 03:29:22 AM
You could give No 4 or No 8 a try next, they are both great aswell.
Yes, my teacher told me that I should move on to 8... would love to play it right... guess a few more days to learn it. Bye

Gian Franco Zabarino
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quasimodo
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2006, 01:09:55 PM »
Greatly impressive!
After 2 years I can't play it, I have kind of a block.
I would suggest you to slow it down just a very little bit. There are places where you get uneven.
About tempo markings on Bach score, hmmm, they are not Bach's. Focus more on clarity and rigour than on speed.
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" On ne joue pas du piano avec deux mains : on joue avec dix doigts. Chaque doigt doit être une voix qui chante"

Samson François
gonzalo
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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2006, 01:50:43 PM »
Quote from: quasimodo on August 08, 2006, 01:09:55 PM
Greatly impressive!
After 2 years I can't play it, I have kind of a block.
I would suggest you to slow it down just a very little bit. There are places where you get uneven.
About tempo markings on Bach score, hmmm, they are not Bach's. Focus more on clarity and rigour than on speed.

Some good advice by Bernhard:


"Number 1 (C major) is a very good example of “voice” music. One can easily imagine it sung by two people. So the most important considerations in playing this invention are:

1.      The ability to play legato.
2.      The ability to bring each voice clearly, which implies hand and finger independence.
3.      The ability to phrase.

Technically this is not a difficult piece but two things will make it or break it:

1.      Appropriate fingering.
2.      Hand independence and co-ordination."

Take care,
gonzalo
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steve jones
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2006, 06:53:58 PM »

I think at full speed it is technically difficult for the beginner / intermediate. At 66bpm, no, but 120bpm, yes!

SJ
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kimba1055
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2006, 01:18:05 PM »
Quote from: steve jones on August 08, 2006, 06:53:58 PM
I think at full speed it is technically difficult for the beginner / intermediate. At 66bpm, no, but 120bpm, yes!

SJ

You've been playing for maybe 3 years but not for a few months that is a level 6 piace
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mcrosbie
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2011, 06:58:26 AM »
I have recently become a proponent of Glenn Gould's Bach interpretations.  I have a copy of Gould playing this piece and listening to it is very helpful.  I think you play it a bit to quickly also.  I played this piece for my Level 7 Royal Conservatory of Music of Toronto exam and Level 10 is the level of a qualified piano teacher or performer, just to give you an idea of where this piece is placed in a music school.  Other people's comments here are good. 

You to show talent.  You just need to improve your technique in my view.    Smiley
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pianist1976
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2011, 08:20:33 AM »
@mcrosbie, you are replying a 4 years and a half old post! Be aware of that. The original poster (I'm pretty sure about that) may have evolved his way of playing  Smiley
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becky8898
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2011, 07:33:47 PM »
Hi - nice job. really  for such a short time of practice. But im going to mention something different for you. that is to talk about the future. To truly play Bach well you must always be able to introduce each voice as it enters. In two part inventions that is relativly easy and most students dont pay a great deal of attention to it.  I was 6 when I did these inventions and my teacher was fanatical about the answering voice. In this invention you start with the right hand, play a phrase and then answer with the left hand. That answer without being to loud , must yet be clear and distinct as it starts. As I said it is not so important in these inventions, but gets more and more important as you progress through Bach. If you are to do the 3 part inventions it becomes more important. If you begin to study his fugues, 3 voices, 4 voices, 5 voices, then your touch as each voice enters is everything.  Others have mentioned your tempo as being very nice and it is, but a slower tempo will allow you to concentrate on voicing. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers, Becky.
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juanduran
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 06:22:13 PM »
 Smiley Very nice!
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