interpreting beethoven trills

[ptyrrell]

Hi,

I am re-visiting my past and playing Beethoven Op 49 No 2, and not sure how to interpret the trills.  Do I begin on the upper note?

I would be grateful for any help

Cheers

Pmouse

[pthebig]

i think you should start with the upper note, like the german wikipedia says...

[mike_lang]

.

[perfect_pitch]

Actually - I wouldn't start the trill on the top note (D) because the note preceding it is a D...

If it was being approached from below, then maybe you could... but I wouldn't in this instance.

[mike_lang]

.

[guendola]

Exactly the opposite of what I thought first. I think this trill works better from the upper note. The reason is the following two small notes. Starting with c, you would have to end the trill with cdbc-b and that is a weird ending for a trill. Furthermore, it is a nice sliding down from d to b which you can emphasize even more by delaying the trill start a bit. Finally, this Sonata is rather classical than romantic or "Sturm & Drang" (Beethoven is considered one of the first romantic composers but that does not apply to his earlier compositions).

[perfect_pitch]

Starting with e, you would have to end the trill with cdbc-b and that is a weird ending for a trill.

Wait... WHAT??? There is NO E in the right hand part of the first phrase so what are you talking about?

And secondly you wouldn't have to end the trill with   "cdbc-b".

You'd just end it like "cdcbc-b" - Makes it sound like a mini turn.

[guendola]

I corrected my previous post, just a typo!

Starting on c you would get
d - cdcd...cdcd -  bc - b
or with the suggestion of perfect_pitch
d - cdcd...cdcdc - bc - b

Starting on d becomes
d - dcdc...dcdc - bc - b

I think from these three variations, only the first one is bad.

[claude_debussy]

Beethoven's trills begin on the upper note - as in the Waldstein, but also the late sonatas like op. 109, last movement - but in the instance you cite, there's an exception.

The stepwise descending melody necessitates that the trill begin on c - the ornament is around a passing tone, and repeating the starting note to the passing tone is unnecessary.  Rhythmically, the emphasis falls on the passing tone, which is the real point, since ornaments are rhythmic accents in fact. 

Taste is always the final arbiter, whatever the rules say - if you look at the ornaments in the Aria of Bach's Goldberg Variations, playing them by those rules - even the rules by Bach reprinted in the Kirkpatrick edition - are musically wrong and nonsensical, with the result that in all interpretations of that piece, the rules are politely ignored.  But that's a larger discussion ...

Good luck with Op. 49, and if you're interested in playing Beethoven at this level, don't forget there are six Sonatinas which are beautiful and well worth studying and playing. 

Claude always used to say that there were only two geniuses in music - "Beethoven and me."

But he also had a wicked sense of humor - peace, CD