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Topic: Melody mad  (Read 2189 times)

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Melody mad
on: March 03, 2010, 03:16:45 AM
Last Monday was a public holiday in West Australia, so I had some time to record one of my improvisations. I felt quite centered on melody on this day, the result was simplifications in my subconscious listening while playing. I tried to keep somewhat more "normal" progressions but some kookiness pops in now and then.

This is in two movements, the 2nd one is certainly more crazy and you may notice in some places I lose myself because my mind snapped into conscious mode eg 13:46 lol (I think I was just personally surprised by the direction the improv was pulling me). The 1st has some calming effect on me in places and some progressions are surprisingly beautiful to me (I really like 8:28 melody ending the movement). It had such a strong pull the 2nd movement couldn't start as with the character I wanted, it was only later that I could pull away from it 12:45.

When improvising sometimes you can produce something pretty cool, other times it's just rubbish. I like how improv is so spontaneous, it was created only for a moment and without the recording it would have been lost and forgotten :) I feel in this improv I hear more things that interest me than what make me grimace.

Sorry piano sounds so disgusting will get tuned very soon we still have a heat wave here in WA noooo!

1st movement : start 0:00- 9:50
2nd movement : 9:50 - 16:19 end


There was also an initial movement which I cut out because its more of warm up, it also has some nice stuff but its predominantly boring to me.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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Offline ted

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Re: Melody mad
Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 07:11:10 AM
Indeed, there are many beautiful moments in this serene but melancholy piece, proving once again the huge variety of expression and emotion possible using almost exclusively simple, triadic forms. Sadly, many trained musicians are inclined to reject the product of improvisation as art, usually because they say it lacks form. I think this is a misunderstanding, namely that form necessarily implies some sort of static pre-conceived jelly-mould into which musical matter must be shovelled. There is another type of form which is organic and dynamic. That is to say, its substance lies in process rather than end result - the DNA, so to speak, rather than the resulting organism.

Improvisation, I feel, should not be assessed by how well its results imitate some historical compositional form or other. To do so is certainly clever, and involves much work and mental arithmetic, but somehow it isn't what I, at any rate, want my improvisation to do any more.

Your improvisation is clearly organic in this sense and obviously required the ability to know when to stop thinking and let the mind run free - it isn't an easy knack to acquire. As for whether an improvisation is good or "rubbish", I now never listen seriously to my own playing for a day or two. If I do so listen too soon after the event it all sounds awful and I run the risk of wanting to erase it !
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Melody mad
Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 06:47:12 PM
Sadly, many trained musicians are inclined to reject the product of improvisation as art, usually because they say it lacks form. I think this is a misunderstanding, namely that form necessarily implies some sort of static pre-conceived jelly-mould into which musical matter must be shovelled. There is another type of form which is organic and dynamic. That is to say, its substance lies in process rather than end result - the DNA, so to speak, rather than the resulting organism.

Improvisation, I feel, should not be assessed by how well its results imitate some historical compositional form or other. To do so is certainly clever, and involves much work and mental arithmetic, but somehow it isn't what I, at any rate, want my improvisation to do any more.

I have listened to both Ted's and lostinidlewonder's most recent improvisations and hope to comment on them later. For now, I want to offer my great thanks to Ted for these wonderful thoughts on improvisation. I greatly appreciated this outlook, as I find it a strong confidence boost and mark of validation. I have often gotten trapped in this box...that my compositions should sound improvisational, and that my improvisations should sound compositional, and I mourn that I have never achieved in composition anything of the power of the improvisations, but that the improvisations do not have the form and structure of a composition. What a trap! What a confidence killer! The fact is improvisation serves a completely different function, but *should* be treated as a perpetually valid art form. Why do so many dismiss it? Why do so many neglect it? I don't understand the pianist who cannot just sit down at the piano and let what comes out come out, but this is a strong part of what I am...everything is improvisation. I don't play Chopin's Scherzi, I improvise them, etc.

Ah well....Ted makes me happy.  :)
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Melody mad
Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 11:43:24 PM
... Sadly, many trained musicians are inclined to reject the product of improvisation as art, usually because they say it lacks form. I think this is a misunderstanding, namely that form necessarily implies some sort of static pre-conceived jelly-mould into which musical matter must be shovelled. There is another type of form which is organic and dynamic. That is to say, its substance lies in process rather than end result - the DNA, so to speak, rather than the resulting organism.
When I play compositions I feel comfortable and safe, I know what I have to do, I know what is coming, everything can be measured, you can "look before you leap". Improvisations can (for me at least) leave you in a very ambigious state of comfort especially when doing "freestyle" improvs. I don't think many people like to play piano this way, most people like to feel safe and know for sure when they do something right or wrong.

You feel confident in what you are doing because you are merely listening to the sound produced but what you hear inside your head is not always 100% the same as what you are producing from the fingers, so these "tug of wars" between the ideal sound of the mind and the actual production of the fingers can produce a really strange and odd sensation.

When things start diverging from the sound in your head you must try to recover and push the fingers to align itself to the mind which is something you just don't get with compositions. On the other hand sometimes the mind does not know exactly what to consider and it is merely the audience of the fingers and the fingers keep going encouraging the mind to "get on board". This spontaneous musical creativity and the "magnetic" force between the minds eye and the fingers while improvising is full of unexpected rewards (musically, technically, mentally, soulfully).

When we play compositions fingers and mind are always aligned, the sound of the mind is the sound of the fingers, but with improv they do run in line but then diverge, then come back together and cycle around, it's constantly moving around. There are times where while improvising you have no thought really of the fingers but the sound in the mind is almost exactly as you are producing with the fingers, these moments are completely magical and surreal for me.  

It is not like you think a thought then play, that would be a measured approach and void of improvising, it is both working together at the same time for me. Sometimes the mind is in line with the fingers and what is produced flows naturally, other times they are disjoint, we struggle to keep them aligned.

There are however things you can imagine but you cannot produce with your fingers unless you work on it like a composition. I am not good enough to improv certain ideas that I can hear in my head, like something in the style of a Liszt Etude for instance. I can hear certain musical concepts in my head but I couldn't produce it unless it really took a measured approach, but this takes me away from an improvisational realm and more into compositional structures. And the mind when wandering through improv wants to float for me, like a meditation, if I have to be so accurate to produce an exact sound and form it can disturb this freeness for me. I am sure as I develop my skills at compositional play there will be more tools I can use in improvisation with free thought.


Improvisation, I feel, should not be assessed by how well its results imitate some historical compositional form or other. To do so is certainly clever, and involves much work and mental arithmetic, but somehow it isn't what I, at any rate, want my improvisation to do any more.
I agree with this and I find if we try to imitate a style we  no long really improvise because we constrain our decision making, it feels like a mental straight jacket on improvising terms. But sometimes I think it would be wonderful if I could improvise something like a Beethoven Sonata. I think it is wishful thinking, but could it be possible? I think some super advanced improv/compositional mind could do it, I try sometimes but get overwhelmed and stuff up :) Its that stuffing up that I don't like, when you play a certain form you can sound wrong, its just not improv! You should be able to play something wrong and it should sound right, that is the cool thing about improv. In a way this makes improv more superior to compositions in that way, compositions sound only good if they walk the "tightrope" improvisations are a free dance on a platform you can never fall off from, you are only limited by your creativity.
 

Your improvisation is clearly organic in this sense and obviously required the ability to know when to stop thinking and let the mind run free - it isn't an easy knack to acquire.
It is a constant battle, I find there is a catch 22 situation, with freedom of thought you can produce interesting results, but when you produce interesting results you move out of free thought and consciously consider what you are playing. Turning off is extremely hard and really requires some kind of meditation or strong emotional focus beforehand.

As for whether an improvisation is good or "rubbish", I now never listen seriously to my own playing for a day or two. If I do so listen too soon after the event it all sounds awful and I run the risk of wanting to erase it !
I rarely record my improvisations so when I do I don't actually mind listening to them a number of times. I like to listen to my thoughts more so than the notes that are played, the decision making, the breaks of focus, the moments of great focus. This is very interesting for me, and sometimes there are parts of an improv that I catch myself humming in my mind. This effects future improvisations. Like when I listen to improvs I did 5 years ago they are different to the ones I produce today. I can't quite explain it, improv seems to move along side your own musical development, mental state, life experience etc. It is almost a window into a persons soul.

....The fact is improvisation serves a completely different function, but *should* be treated as a perpetually valid art form. Why do so many dismiss it? Why do so many neglect it? I don't understand the pianist who cannot just sit down at the piano and let what comes out come out, but this is a strong part of what I am...everything is improvisation. I don't play Chopin's Scherzi, I improvise them, etc.
Improv that walks the line of certain styles has a lot of respect, like in Jazz for instance, but a free form improv I think doesn't get the attention it should imo. With compositions you can train yourself to play them, and you know what is right and wrong, people like this when studying something. With freestyle improvisation I don't think it is a directly taught skill I think it develops alongside your ability to play compositions and development of your own creative mind. Most people who play piano are not speaking music as their native tongue, they are merely reciting what they have been told to say. When improvising you have to speak the speak, I don't think many people feel comfortable trying to talk without being told what to say.

In the 21st century we have heard compositions that are extremely confusing to understand, not many people who are avid piano music listeners can be surprised by a strange or obscure way to play the piano these days. Because of this the wrong notes that one might play in improvisation actually do not sound wrong and can be considered correct, they are no more or less so wrong as intentional "wrongness" in some compositions :)

The biggest trap for me when improvising is sounding boring. Sometimes its just like, yeah well so what this is just going on and on there are no points where we can clearly identify something new or memorable. I have recorded myself doing an improv which I was totally feeling free and wonderful but when listening back to the playing it was totally boring and uninteresting. But the feeling I was getting while playing was just beautiful! What a strange thing improv is.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
www.pianovision.com
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