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The New Concept: Scores for All Stages of Learning

On the recent Music Education Expo in London, Piano Street presented a new concept for sheet music publication. Depending on your own level of experience and where you are in the learning process of a particular piece, you may need fingering, pedal markings, practice and performance tips, or perhaps the right opposite - a clean Urtext score. Read more >>

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Author Topic: Mephisto Waltz #1 - Audio Recordings  (Read 1821 times)
the romantic
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« on: February 02, 2011, 03:14:39 PM »

Hello all,

For some years I have been collecting audio performances of Liszt's Mephisto Waltz (#1).  In my collection I have 44 recordings, two of which are unidentified!  I was hoping that someone here could Identify the performers for me.  The files are all huge, so I have reduced the quality to attach them to this post.

Here is a list of all the performances I already have:

Year    Performer   Type    Length
1954    Anda, Geza    Studio    11:24
1963    Arrau, Claudio    Live    11:37
1989    Arrau, Claudio    Studio    12:49
1970    Ashkenazy, Vladimir    Studio    11:02
2010    Berezovsky, Boris    Live    08:30
2009    Berezovsky, Boris    Live    08:54
2009    Berezovsky, Boris    Live    08:54
1967    Berman, Lazar    Studio    11:09
2005    Blet, Stephane    Studio    11:17
1982    Bolet, Jorge    Studio    11:38
1958    Brendel, Alfred    Studio    11:14
2007    Buniatishvili, Khatia    Live    09:56
2001    Chan, Susan    Studio    11:17
1972    Cliburn, Van    Live    11:27
1959    Cziffra, Gyorgy    Studio    11:24
1977    Dichter, Misha    Studio    10:45
   Economou, Nicolas    Studio    11:26
1980    Economou, Nicolas    Studio    11:37
1986    Feinberg, Samuel    Studio    10:41
1958    Foldes, Andor    Studio    10:43
2007    Fuks, Anzhelika    Live    10:36
1979    Horowitz, Vladimir    Live    12:15
2008    Hough, Stephen    Live    11:20
1985    Howard, Leslie    Studio    11:18
1995    Howard, Leslie    Studio    10:07    (1st version)
2006    Jando, Jeno    Live    10:34
1945    Kapell, William    Studio    09:53
2006    Karamenderes, Bayram    Live    10:35
2003    Matsuev, Denis    Studio    11:30
1997    Meyrick, Richard    Studio    10:33
2004    Montero, Gabriela    Studio    11:39
1987    Nagy, Peter    Studio    11:50
1961    Ogdon, John    Studio    11:17
2001    Ove Andsnes, Leif    Studio    11:10
1991    Paik, Kun Woo    Studio    11:24
1984    Pletnev, Mikhail    Studio    11:48
1958    Richter, Sviatoslav    Studio    11:07
1955    Rubinstein, Artur    Studio    10:47
1980    Setrakian, Setrak    Studio    12:05    (Apparently his recording)
1989    Sultanov, Alexei    Live    10:58
   Wild, Earl    Studio    10:43
2003    Würtz, Klára    Studio    11:20
           
   Unknown 1    Studio    11:38
   Unknown 2    Studio    10:47



Most of these recordings were taken from my personal CD collection, with some from YouTube ( & other sources on the internet).  As you can see, there a few pieces of information missing.  The date of Earl Wild's recording (perhaps he made more than one studio recording?), and the date of Economou's performance (which is from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmIolZU5PRw  I'd appreciate it if anyone could help out!

Regarding the unknown performaces, the first one I found somewhere online, and in the file properties it says that it's Artur Rubinstein.  However, it is definitely not the recording from this CD: http://www.amazon.com/Rubinstein-Collection-Vol-Franz-Liszt/dp/B00005427B/, because the details of that one are already on the list.  Does anyone know of another studio recording from Rubinstein that it might be?

The 2nd one should be easy to identify.  It's a recording I quite enjoyed and it's the Busoni transcription.  The ending sounds very similar to the live recording that I have of Van Cliburn.  Does anyone have a studio recording of Van Cliburn to check it against?

In trying to identify these tracks, I immediately checked them against tracks of a similar length from my collection.  This didn't turn up any answers, so it's pretty safe to rule out those recordings on my list.

Meanwhile, if anyone would like to trade files, I would love to find recordings by any of the following:

Murray Perahia
Julius Katchen

Alfredo Perl
Dezső Ránki
Francois-René Duchable
Minoru Nojima

Evgeny Kissin (Studio)

Or any that I don't have for that matter.  Smiley

EDIT: 2nd track is Van Cliburn from 1975!

Flash mp3 player

* Unknown 1.mp3 (8186.57 KB - downloaded 53 times.)

Flash mp3 player

* Unknown 2.mp3 (7593.03 KB - downloaded 35 times.)
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piano sheet music of Mephisto Waltz no 1
birba
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 03:31:50 PM »

wow, you have a thing with the Mephisto, don't you?  I listened to the two recordings (I've been brushing up on MY mephisto lately) and I really enjoyed the first one.  He hit the right tempo at the beginning.  I wonder what the chronometer said on the duration.  Probably way over the norm.  But it was very convincing.  I don't really care for Busoni's edition.  It was some virtuoso who did this recording, I have to say.  Although he changes tempi for convenience's sake, it seems sometimes.  I'm more and more of the opinion that you can do whatever the h... you want as long as it's convincing.  Sorry, I have no idea who those pianists could be.  The first one is definitely of the "old" school.
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the romantic
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 03:42:40 PM »

Thanks for listening birba.  I am also not a fan of the busoni version, but I did like certian parts of this performance.  It's amazing how radically different one performance can be from another!  I'm about to tackle this piece myself, so I keep it playing in the background as an assistance.  Smiley

The duration for the first one was 11:38 - it's up there on the list.  The average duration for these 44 recordings is 11:01 and if we remove Berezovsky's unfortunate tempi it brings the average up to around 11:11 for 41 recordings.

Best of luck with playing it!

EDIT: Oh, I meant to mention that the runtimes can be misleading here.  Often in a short performance, the player has not played the difficult parts extremely quickly but, instead, has rushed, in an uncaring manner, through the slow section.
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2x Marx at the Piano in a Duet

Chico Marx was known for “shooting” the keys of the piano. As part of the act he would play passages with his thumb up and index finger straight — like a gun. A charming example of his keyboard flamboyance is found in the film ”A Night at the Opera”. Read more >>

pflander
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 05:45:05 PM »

I have recordings of Perahia and Nojima.  Perahia's is among my favorites.  Nojima sparkles technically, but misses the romance and story.
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the romantic
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 08:16:19 AM »

Thanks pflander.  I sent a private message in case you are interested in swapping some files.
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liszt1022
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 02:31:20 PM »

Outside of your list, I've got

(1988 or 1992) Stephen Hough                 Studio 10:45
1974               Francois-Rene Duchable     Studio 10:49
1992               Ethella Chuprik                 Studio 11:01

Edit: Hey, a nice project of yours could be to note which text each pianist plays, as in who reads main text and who reads ossia, who adds the extended middle section, who plays Busoni parts or changes up the ending, and one personally interesting thing is who pedals the opening bars.
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birba
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 08:44:16 PM »

I'd like to hear what you think of the two bars of 2/4 in the last measures of the finale...
Furiozpianist played them correctly in his recording.
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The New Concept: Scores for All Stages of Learning

On the recent Music Education Expo in London, Piano Street presented a new concept for sheet music publication. Depending on your own level of experience and where you are in the learning process of a particular piece, you may need fingering, pedal markings, practice and performance tips, or perhaps the right opposite - a clean Urtext score. Read more >>

the romantic
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 12:49:26 AM »

Outside of your list, I've got

(1988 or 1992) Stephen Hough                 Studio 10:45
1974               Francois-Rene Duchable     Studio 10:49
1992               Ethella Chuprik                 Studio 11:01

Edit: Hey, a nice project of yours could be to note which text each pianist plays, as in who reads main text and who reads ossia, who adds the extended middle section, who plays Busoni parts or changes up the ending, and one personally interesting thing is who pedals the opening bars.

I'd like to get those recordings!  Actually I plan to list the differences at some point, but it's a huge task.  It's vary rare to find an exact recording of the Busoni edition.  In fact it's quite rare to find an exact performance of Liszt's transcription too.  Most insert some part of the Busoni, or make small adjustments to the score.  A typical example of this is playing the left hand notes at the start of the cadenza one octave lower than written.


Birba, who is Furiozpianist?
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john11inc
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 01:25:55 AM »

I have Perahia, Katchen, Duchable and Nojima; I'm sure someone can come up with the Kissin, assuming it exists, but I don't have any of his crap.

I also have another 20 or 30 recs by pianists that I didn't see in your list.  However, I'm afraid the only thing I'm interested in that's not contemporary is Janis' Mercury Label Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3 with Kondrashin.  Let me know if you have it.  I also have a couple of the Busoni edition.

Also, obv I have a ton of live recs by the pianists you did list, but I don't pay attention to dates and such, so I don't know which ones would be repeats for you.
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If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

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birba
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 07:12:03 AM »

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=39702.0
But how do YOU play those two bars?   dotted quarter note=quater note, or dotted quarter note=half note?
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liszt1022
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 01:55:48 PM »

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=39702.0
But how do YOU play those two bars?   dotted quarter note=quater note, or dotted quarter note=half note?

My Editio Musica Budapest score of the MW specifically says dotted quarter = half note, so basically one measure = one measure.
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The New Concept: Scores for All Stages of Learning

On the recent Music Education Expo in London, Piano Street presented a new concept for sheet music publication. Depending on your own level of experience and where you are in the learning process of a particular piece, you may need fingering, pedal markings, practice and performance tips, or perhaps the right opposite - a clean Urtext score. Read more >>

birba
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 05:30:42 PM »

YES! But not everyone plays it that way!  (e.g. the ones you cited.)
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pbryld
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2011, 07:23:17 PM »

The best I've heard is a studio recording by Stephen Hough. It lasts 35 seconds less than the live recording you have. Send me a message if you would like me to send it to you.
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the romantic
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2011, 09:30:32 AM »

I have a lot more recordings since I made the first post.  I've managed to get Peraiha, Nojima, Hough (studio), Katchen, Kissin (live) & others.

Would anyone like to swap for Duchable, Perl or Ránki?
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john11inc
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2011, 09:26:24 PM »

I sent you the Duchable in a PM.
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If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


http://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch
the romantic
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2011, 01:06:47 PM »

Thanks a lot John - it's very much appreciated!!!
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the romantic
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2011, 07:53:31 PM »

Thank you liszt1022 for sharing the Chuprik recording with me!

I've now identified the 2nd recording I posted.  It is a recording of Van Cliburn, dated 8th August 1975.  No news ont he 1st recording yet, but I have now collected 102 different recordings and it's none of those lol.  So perhaps it was recorded by someone in their bedroom.  Smiley
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romulo
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2011, 12:48:28 AM »

I already heard lot of perfomances of this piece, one of my favorites pieces, and I would say by far that the best one would be the Erwin Nyiregyhŕzi's interpretation besides maybe with the Sultanov's interpretation.

Cecile Licad also did a great job with the Busoni's transcription.

As they say, Even the devil himself couldnt play it better,

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=FpzW7RH0cgY

Quote
Full of errors but the devil is also full of that...

My favorite interpretation....

thank you for posting
gainweighttoday 1 ano atrás 3

 Grin
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the romantic
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2011, 10:07:28 AM »

Hi romulo,

I have all those recordings you mentioned.  Yeah, the Nyiregyhŕzi is definitely different to others' recordings.  He plays something much closer to the original orchestral version than anyone else.

I agree with you about Licad.  The nice thing about her performance is that she is one of the few who plays exactly what Busoni wrote, so it's a good as a reference.

While you're at YouTube, you should listen to Vedernikov - he plays an amazing Cadenza!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyD-SxjJ4BE
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birba
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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2011, 05:10:55 PM »

I've been looking at the Busoni edition and some parts are easier!  No more jumps at the end, no more "antipatici" grace notes at the beginning.  He really knew what he was doing.  There ARE the double thirds, but, perhaps I could mix the two editions...I wonder if that would be kosher...
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orangesodaking
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2011, 06:39:07 PM »

Whoa, you have Susan Chan's recording??

That's a pretty good one, I think. I like it a lot, anyway!  Grin

I also got to play in a master class with her. She said some great things!
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daniloperusina
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2011, 09:43:48 PM »

In the first recording there's a very poor edit at 03:10. The pitch drops and the dynamics and phrasing is like from somewhere else. At 09:11 there's also a strange shift in the stereo-image, everything goes to the far left suddenly, and keeps at that until the end. It's like someone has been tampering with it in not such a professional way. Hmm. Strange.

[EDIT] By the way, the Rubinstein you refer to, the 10:47, is a mono recording, while this one is stereo.
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thalbergmad
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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2011, 11:16:44 AM »

Is anyone aware of a recording of the Burmeister transcription for Piano & Orchestra??

Thal
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Michael Britchfield
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Concerto Preservation Society
orangesodaking
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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2011, 04:10:06 PM »

Is anyone aware of a recording of the Burmeister transcription for Piano & Orchestra??

Thal

No, but that sounds awesome! I am adding that to my list of "concerto" transcriptions, along with Mussorgsky's Pictures done by Naomoff and Schubert's Fantasie in F Minor done by Kabalevsky.
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