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The New Concept: Scores for All Stages of Learning

On the recent Music Education Expo in London, Piano Street presented a new concept for sheet music publication. Depending on your own level of experience and where you are in the learning process of a particular piece, you may need fingering, pedal markings, practice and performance tips, or perhaps the right opposite - a clean Urtext score. Read more >>

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Author Topic: did he really play Rach 3 in Shine?  (Read 6605 times)
Nemo
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« on: January 02, 2003, 04:32:36 AM »

hey...I just watched the movie Shine last week(after 6 years of being out :-/) and to me, his performance of Rach 3 was marvelous, and has me inspired to learn it in the future. I checked the reviews and some people said it was a poor performance and was a "mockery to pianists". Do any of you play the Rach 3? If so, how was his performance? was he really playing it or just banging at keys like someone else suggested. let me know! Angry
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Hit the right keys at the right moment and the instrument plays itself - Johann Sebastian Bach
xenia
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2003, 03:18:21 AM »

Hi !

The actor in '' Shine'' didn't really played ( i'm not sure in my english) Rach 3,but  the main actor was really player.

Wink
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Nemo
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2003, 03:55:43 AM »

oh Angry and here i was trying to imitate his fingering and style :-/ oh forget it then, i'll do it my way Wink
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Hit the right keys at the right moment and the instrument plays itself - Johann Sebastian Bach


Traditional Music Engraving - A Course in Magic

G. Henle Publishers employ a variety of techniques in producing their beautiful scores, including software programs like Sibelius. But very few people know just how involved the art of music engraving was in the days before modern music printing technology. Read more >>

veimar
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2003, 10:02:07 PM »

Yes, the pianist Helpfgott (whom this movie is about, I'm not sure in spelling his name Smiley) is really playing the Concerto.
Regards, M.W.
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willcowskitz
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2003, 04:21:56 AM »


Hey,

The guy's hitting the wrong keys all through the whole clip. I wonder if they made it on purpose for pianists to figure out?  Roll Eyes

For example when the older Helfgott plays Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no.2 on the old piano at his appartment (the scene where someone from downstairs bangs the floor and shouts "SHUT UP") he hits the keys wrong just a little at some parts.

Well, who knows. Anyways, try and keep up your motivation!

www.sheetmusicarchive.net
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OneHand10Fingers
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2003, 05:10:09 PM »

its a movie...movies are fake Cry
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frederic
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2003, 05:25:24 AM »

I think the hands of Helfgott in the movie is Simon Tedeschi. He is coming to New Zealand this year on tour.
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"The concert is me" - Franz Liszt


Pianomania – Love, Perfection and a Little Bit of Madness

“The tone isn’t breathing.“ – complains pianist Pierre-Laurent Aimard, distraught. This is a typical sentence in Steinway & Sons’ chief technician and Master Tuner Stefan Knüpfer’s normal work day. The film Pianomania takes the viewer along on a humorous journey into the secret world of sounds, and accompanies Stefan Knüpfer at his unusual job with world famous pianists like Lang Lang, Alfred Brendel, Rudolf Buchbinder, Till Fellner and Pierre-Laurent Aimard, among others. Read more >>

rachfan
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2003, 07:09:03 AM »

Helfgott has never been viewed as a world class artist, but rather as an accomplished pianist who was able to overcome at times serious mental debilitations in order to achieve personal aspirations and meaning, and to share that with an audience.  His playing of the Rach 3rd is, in fact, undeniably idiosyncratic, and apart from the cinema success, I've never read of a single serious music critic extolling Helfgott's playing as  sensational.  It is what it is, he has a loyal audience to encourage him and cheer him on, and that's all to be lauded.        
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willcowskitz
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2003, 09:28:18 PM »

I THINK that the hands in some parts of the movie, where they only show the hands, are Helfgott's. Or that's what I recall being told to, once.
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willster
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2003, 09:25:50 PM »

The actor (or actors as he grows up) attempt to play a dummy piano much like playing an "air guitar" with a tennis raquet!! surely you couldnt have been fooled-I dont think they played a single correct note in the whole film! However, they are miming to David Helfgotts performance. It is a sad story about a wasted talent but Helfgott's peformance of this concerto and other pieces are fairly poor. His interpretations are illogical and off the wall whilst his technical ability is in question after such a long period of not playing-I have a "live" recording of him playing the 3rd with fistfulls of wrong notes....

.....the sort of performance i would expect from a manic depressive. I would usely feel harsh saying such things but hes made enough money from it!
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willcowskitz
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2003, 10:38:11 PM »

If I remember right:  When playing Hungarian Rhapsody, he plays C,C#,A ... the correct tapping being C,C#,H ...  and so on. They did think about something at least. And of course lots of notes are being left out and some high parts are being played from the lower keys lol. Its a damn movie anyway, I enjoyed it. And I've heard Helfgott's performance of Rachmaninoff's third concerto's (I just REFUSE to call it "Rach3") third movement - it wasn't as bad as I thought after reading the critics. Just sounded a little... as stated: illogical. I suppose it was the famous 'mental illness' expressing itself lol
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Recommended Book: Chopin - The Four Ballades

In an illuminating discussion, Jim Samson combines history and analysis to provide a comprehensive picture of these popular piano works. Read more >>

frederic
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2003, 10:31:03 AM »

I am reading this book called 'out of tune' by magaret helfgott (david's sister). She writes about how the film was totally not true (even though its said to be 'based on a true story) and that it is showing peter helfgott
as a violent, evil person who makes his son practice until his fingers bleed.
She says that many scenes in the movie were false. For example: David did not collapse after he played Rach3 in London. He actually performed it many times in australia before that!  
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"The concert is me" - Franz Liszt
willcowskitz
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2003, 04:12:19 PM »

I read the same on the Internet a couple months back. Except that they used words "vile relationship" and "collapse at the piano"  Grin

Those elements were added to the movie to make D. Helfgott some kind of a romantic, heroic figure - though I also Read On The Internet(tm) that the critics never praised Helfgott a bit for his so called fantastic intepretations. Plus, I Read On The Internet (several months ago(tm)) that David Helfgott is the worst piano player ever having been granted the title of a musical genius. (was that even an English sentence??)


p.s. Its a good movie.

p.p.s. I like some parts of Helfgott's Rachmaninoff's third.


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Ludwig
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2003, 03:20:14 AM »

 I think Frederic is right. The young Helfgott was sometimes acted out by the hands of Simon Tedeschi, a young Australian pianist. It was a good movie none the less, whether true or not. I have a recording of Helfgott playing the rach 3 and it isn't that brilliant, but had some nice elements to it like Will said, a good story line I suppose.
 
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"Classical music snobs are some of the snobbiest snobs of all. Often their snobbery masquerades as helpfulnes... unaware that they are making you feel small in order to make themselves feel big..."ÜÜÜ
cziffra
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2003, 05:17:45 AM »

did anybody look at the credits?  its a good starting point for movies: the scene of david playing at the eisteddfod as a kid used the hands of simon tedeschi, the scene of david playing the rach 3 used the hands of a different guy, martin somebody.  the scenes of geoffrey rush playing stuff used his own hands, except what he was playing was rubbish- the scene of the hungarian rhapsody no.2 is him hitting random notes, especially the left hand.

when the movie depicted david collapsing at the performance it was meant to be symbolic, of his breakdown coming so close after he had achieved what he wanted.  

i must say, after hearing rachmaninoff play the 3rd concerto himself on the naxos historical (8.110601) the helfgott version is almost laughable.  it's like hearing a japanese person recite a speech in english that he has laboriously memorised phonetically, with no understaning of what it means; and he's done a bad job, at that.

i agree with willster- it is exactly the sort of performance you would expect from a manic depressive
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What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould
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