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The New Concept: Scores for All Stages of Learning

On the recent Music Education Expo in London, Piano Street presented a new concept for sheet music publication. Depending on your own level of experience and where you are in the learning process of a particular piece, you may need fingering, pedal markings, practice and performance tips, or perhaps the right opposite - a clean Urtext score. Read more >>

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Author Topic: Soreness in arm, palm side  (Read 1909 times)
sausagefingers
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« on: December 22, 2011, 07:07:04 PM »

Hi, hope someone can help.

I'm experiencing a lot of soreness on the underside of my forearm , particularly on my wrist (palm side) which extends towards my elbow. I'm having trouble identifying what the cause is so far and its really hampering my progress now. It doesent feel like joint pain its more muscular or tendon based I believe.

I know there's a lot of similar stories on the forum regarding arm pain but I cant find a post that adresses this specific problem. Also I do'nt have a teacher at the moment so you guys are all I have! so id really appreciate some guidance on this please .

Ive been learning Bach , Invention 1 and 2 for the past three months and playing a lot of staccato I dont know if this helps or not

Thanks
tim x

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“An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way.”
pianowolfi
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 07:42:18 PM »

That sounds like an overdosis of staccato-finger-action. I think it might help if you try to reduce that sort of practice significantly, and play more from the arm, more legato, support your movements with a very flexible wrist, and don't overemphasize the staccato-articulation. Probably you have run out of balance. I think it also doesn't contribute to a better Bach interpretation.

You might want to have a listen to my favorite Bach interpreter here:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX3_IEybveY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX3_IEybveY</a>






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keyboardclass
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 07:56:06 PM »

Agree, try something gentler.
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An Evening with Friedrich Gulda at the Keyboards

In a live recording from the Amerikahaus, Munich, Friedrich Gulda reveals the versatility of his keyboard playing by performing the old master's as well as his own compositions on both clavichord and piano.. Read more >>

nyiregyhazi
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 08:16:37 PM »

Hi, hope someone can help.

I'm experiencing a lot of soreness on the underside of my forearm , particularly on my wrist (palm side) which extends towards my elbow. I'm having trouble identifying what the cause is so far and its really hampering my progress now. It doesent feel like joint pain its more muscular or tendon based I believe.

I know there's a lot of similar stories on the forum regarding arm pain but I cant find a post that adresses this specific problem. Also I do'nt have a teacher at the moment so you guys are all I have! so id really appreciate some guidance on this please .

Ive been learning Bach , Invention 1 and 2 for the past three months and playing a lot of staccato I dont know if this helps or not

Thanks
tim x



Take a look here:

http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/2011/09/keybedding-part-ii-achieving-direct.html

If you're getting problems, you're probably hitting the keybeds hard, rather than absorbing the impact.
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keypeg
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 08:20:33 PM »

I see that you are self-taught.  I was forced into that position for two years, although I did have someone check my technique in around 4 lessons when I first resumed piano to make sure I wasn't completely off (I played self-taught when young).  I have been working with a teacher since a few months.  Even though I was careful, there are habits that crept in.  Staccato in particular was done in a way that would have hurt my hands and I have learned how to change what I was doing.  I don't know if you can get at this on your own.  I couldn't.  And there is no use describing what fixed mine, because it was based on what my teacher observed me doing.  You are a different person with a different way of using your body.  It is worth it to find someone competent to work with you.  It is also not that easy to find such a person, and then work with him or her.  Best of luck.
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ajspiano
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 10:53:43 PM »

That sounds like an overdosis of staccato-finger-action.

This was my initial thoughts also..

I haven't experienced it or dealt with it before but unsupported use of downward finger action seems to fit pretty well with pain in that location, based on the anatomy used to execute such an action.

My anatomy knowledge is probably terrible, but I believe the flexor muscles based in the forearm trigger the powerful downward pull of the fingers, and this appears to be where you're pain is..?

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sausagefingers
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 11:26:53 AM »

Thanks guys really appreciate the replies.

The pain is on the underside of my forearm its a sore kind of heat and the occasional twinges that are bothering me. I think I'm getting there, slowly. What I'm going to do is slow down a bit , drop down a grade or 2 and work on my technique , however boring (on a cerebral level) this might be its necessary

 I think what is causing the problem is a mixture of not using the weight of my arm thus overusing my fingers, playing with too much downward pressure (pushing too hard into the keyboard with my arms) and generally attempting pieces that are above my technical skill level. I think Im kind of testing myself with them to see whats possible what I'm capable of.


Thanks again. for the replies , they really do help me get a perspective of things.
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“An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way.”


Views on J. S. Bach – Interview with pianist Peter Hill

A recognised authority in 20th century and contemporary music, Peter Hill turns for the first time on disc to another of his lifelong preoccupations – the music of J. S. Bach. In this exclusive interview for Piano Street, Peter shares his ideas on the world of Johann Sebastian Bach. Read more >>

keyboardclass
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 12:41:35 PM »

If it's available in your area you should watch this (in fact all pianists should).  It was on earlier in the week:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/inside-natures-giants/4od#3277626 At about 13 minutes they dissect his hand.  At 17:20 you'll see in the under forearm there are two muscles either side of the flexors that move the wrist - is that where there's trouble?  Notice they are quite small compared to the flexors.  Also pay attention to the ligaments - how little regard we hold them in! and that often bodes ill.
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starstruck5
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 07:49:41 PM »

Sometimes you can just break all the rules - but I not sure how he does it???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E49E1VEmOhM&feature=related


He seems to put a lot of energy into every note - like he is pushing through the keybed or is this an illusion?   His posture seems to go against all known advice and yet he plays like a God - go figure. 
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When a search is in progress, something will be found.
keyboardclass
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 08:23:57 PM »

Gould does not play like a god, he plays like Gould, and if you know anything about Bach you'd know his intepretations are pretty much rubbish.
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jmanpno
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 04:47:58 PM »

Gould had a very fine technique as a young man.  With that foundation there were still fundamentals that were unsullied as he essentially began to *** with his technique (pardon my french, but I use the word advisedly).  He experienced major problems in later life.

I am not familiar with this piano science blog.  I'll have to read it, but the little bit I've seen looks like a highly analytical waste of time.
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The New Concept: Scores for All Stages of Learning

On the recent Music Education Expo in London, Piano Street presented a new concept for sheet music publication. Depending on your own level of experience and where you are in the learning process of a particular piece, you may need fingering, pedal markings, practice and performance tips, or perhaps the right opposite - a clean Urtext score. Read more >>

keyboardclass
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 05:33:15 PM »

I am not familiar with this piano science blog.  I'll have to read it, but the little bit I've seen looks like a highly analytical waste of time.
+1
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