Piano Forum logo
October 25, 2014, 02:32:09 PM *
   Forum Home   Help Search  


Top downloads - #5:
Chopin - Nocturne in E-flat

The famous Nocturne in E-flat major, op 9 no 2 belong to a set of three Nocturnes, written in the beginning of the 1830s. They were dedicated to Marie Moke Pleyel, a virtuoso pianist and the wife of Camille Pleyel. Read more >>

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bach invention questions  (Read 1652 times)
carlos256
PS Gold Member
Newbie
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« on: August 06, 2012, 06:46:03 PM »

I've been studying all of the 2 part inventions over the past year or so. After doing some reading, I decided to study them in the order that Bach supposedly taught them. So I started with C and then dm em F G am, etc. My question is about the F, G and a minor inventions. They all seem to involve more leaps and arpeggiated passages than some of the others that mostly go in stepwise motion, and I think this is one of my problem areas. F and a minor are especially giving me trouble. Does anyone have any advice about how to practice these particular inventions? I can get through them, but they never sound quite as good as the other ones.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
asuhayda
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 285


« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 07:05:02 PM »

Hi!

I'm not really sure if there is a specific way to practice these that is different from the rest. However,  you might want to try doing some of the following things... (if you aren't already)

1.  Identify the voices and play them alone, cutting out the supporting eighth notes on the opposite hand.  This helps you to listen for the themes and play them more clearly once the piece is put completely together.  The are points (especially in the F major) where the two voices lock into each other.. you can play those together.  General rule of thumb is to practice the 16th note passages with alternating left and right hands.  I hope I explained that correctly.. let me know if this doesn't make sense.

2.  Practice in different rhythms (you can really swing these, it makes for some interesting practicing)
3.  Never vary your fingering with Bach.. it only makes it harder to learn.

Hopefully I'm not insulting your intelligence with these.  Unless I heard you playing, it's tough to tell you exactly what to do.  But, I think at least the first point might help you out a little bit.

Good Luck

Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

~ if you want to know what I'm working on.. just ask me!
carlos256
PS Gold Member
Newbie
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 07:04:58 PM »

Those all seem like great ideas. I don't feel like you're insulting my intelligence at all. I'm a littlle confused by the second point you made though. I've heard other people mention the concept of changing the rhythm or swinging it, but never really knew what that meant. Are there any examples you could give me, maybe a youtube video or something. So far I think the first point you made is helping me the most. Thanks for taking time to answer my question!
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
davidjosepha
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 877


« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 07:22:02 PM »

I've heard other people mention the concept of changing the rhythm or swinging it, but never really knew what that meant.
I believe he's saying when practicing, instead of playing the notes evenly, as written, you can try playing them swung. "Swing" itself can mean a whole variety of different rhythms that are different from each other significantly, but what they have in common is that the first note is given more time than the second. The most common way of writing a swing pattern is like this...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/Shuffle_feel_simple.png
(only don't include that middle rest in there. Hold the first note for the length of two triplets--it's written that way because this is drum notation, and you (usually) don't actively control the sustain of a note when playing drums, so it's easier to read that way.)
and the second most common way is like this...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Dotted_eighth-sixteenth.png

Sorry if that's not what you're asking and you know what swing is, but there you have it! Swing has a non-rigid "natural" feel to it, like a horse galloping, or a drunk man walking Grin

Since you're not swinging it for style, but just for practice, you shouldn't spend too much time trying to get the feel just write. The point is that now, instead of having a huge chunk of fast notes together, you now have lots of small two-note chunks of slightly faster notes together. Practicing two notes together like this, you'll be able to work on the transition between each note better.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
chopin2015
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2145


« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 04:20:15 AM »

Practice each part separately, hands apart. Practice slowly and keep it consistent. If you are playing badly perhaps it is because you are not understanding what you are supposed to do, rushing over things that should be addressed, so slow it down and more will be realized at a tempo you are comfortable exploring.

Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."
asuhayda
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 285


« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 04:49:23 AM »

Are there any examples you could give me, maybe a youtube video or something.

Unfortunately, I don't have the capability to give post any recordings yet.. but I'm working on it. However, I don't think I'd be able to get anything posted in a very expeditious time frame.

I think david gave a really good explanation above regarding what I was getting at.  Sometimes playing passages in dotted eigth to sixteenth rhythms etc., instead of evenly, is actually easier and will help familiarize your fingers with the required dexterity as it were.

There are many different ways to vary the rhythm which isolates specific clusters of notes.  Once you've practiced in this manner, then take it back to even at a steady tempo and slowly increase.. it really works like a charm.

Bach was really one of the original jazz musicians. He, improvised many of his compositions in bulk.. then wrote them down from memory.   So, a lot of jazz musicians actually use Bach as a teaching tool for improvisation because his chord structures are so well defined and have extremely intricate passage work.  Point being, it provides a good opportunity to swing it! Smiley

Lastly, I'm not sure what you're level is, but you also might want to check out his little prelude & fugues ... they are pretty cool as well.  Once you start getting the hang of Bach, you'll realize that other genres of music begin to get easier to play and your articulation will be much better.  At least I've noticed that in my own playing over the years.

Hope this helps to clarify your question and best of luck to you.. you're very wise to focus so much on Bach. You won't regret it in the long run!

Adam
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

~ if you want to know what I'm working on.. just ask me!
49410enrique
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3551


« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 06:44:21 PM »

.

Bach was really one of the original jazz musicians. He, improvised many of his compositions in bulk.. then wrote them down from memory.   So, a lot of jazz musicians actually use Bach as a teaching tool for improvisation because his chord structures are so well defined and have extremely intricate passage work.  Point being, it provides a good opportunity to swing it! Smiley

Lastly, I'm not sure what you're level is, but you also might want to check out his little prelude & fugues ... they are pretty cool as well.  Once you start getting the hang of Bach, you'll realize that other genres of music begin to get easier to play and your articulation will be much better.  At least I've noticed that in my own playing over the years.


agreed. i think that's why stuff like this works so well!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LxZMBqdUzk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LxZMBqdUzk</a>
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  


Need more info or help?


Search pianostreet.com - the web's largest resource of information about piano playing:



 
Jump to:  


Most popular classical piano composers:
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

o