VOTE : PS Competition, Round 1 - Performances

[ajspiano]

This is an ambitious initiative, ajs!

I have a tendency to aim excessively high.

[costicina]

I'm not sure what it's about, but I trust you blindly: if it comes out that I have the requisites to be involved in the project, I'll be happy to partecipate!!!!

[lostinidlewonder]

Aim for the stars and you hit the moon!

You have my full support Aj and if you slack off I'll drive over to your place and beat you up. lo0o0l

[ajspiano]

You have my full support Aj and if you slack off I'll drive over to your place and beat you up. lo0o0l

Lol, I guess i better get going then, or arm myself.

[pts1]

AJ

I think this is a great idea and the web site looks neat (so far)!

I really like the friendly informal feelling of the "writing like" font for the name.

[ajspiano]

AJ

I really like the friendly informal feelling of the "writing like" font for the name.

Bonus! - that was a case of pick any font that isnt arial.

I think absolutely everything at this stage can be considered a draft. I'm going to properly sit down and go through some design options at some stage.

Mostly right now I'm trying to decide how to structure the board and experimenting with different ideas. I think its going to be as tailored toward student pianists and active participation as is possible..

..and perhaps offers what I really wish there was here. - a deliberate conscious effort from the admins to index and place in plain site the best contributed content.

..just have to hope that at some stage someone posts some valuable content there. 

[outin]

AJS,
I see only one tiny issue...Since there's a forum with some general piano topics as well, would it be clashing a bit with PS? Wouldn't want that, would we? So maybe it would be better to just keep the topics limited to the competition and direct all general discussion to this site instead?

[ajspiano]

AJS,
I see only one tiny issue...Since there's a forum with some general piano topics as well, would it be clashing a bit with PS? Wouldn't want that, would we? So maybe it would be better to just keep the topics limited to the competition and direct all general discussion to this site instead?

I'm just experimenting with administering the site..  Changing designs, adding and subtracting boards and categories.

When I open it for use initially, that section will not be there.. or at least it will be hidden from everyone except me.. It will be no use having that stuff there since there will not be enough activity to warrant it even if i did want to be in competition with PS - which I REALLY REALLY don't.. and it wouldnt work anyway, there is no way that thepianocompetition.com would be able to compete with the member base here, and the quantity of content already available on PS.

[chopin2015]

U need dreamweaver? Lol honestly its not about the looks, its about the skills! Haha

[chopin2015]

Seriously cant wait, though!

[outin]

I'm just experimenting with administering the site..  Changing designs, adding and subtracting boards and categories.

Ok...you could always add a board for cat discussion since some people here get annoyed by it 

[ajspiano]

U need dreamweaver?

There is NO WAY IN HELL I would be using dreamweaver here..

Do you have any idea how much php code is already flapping its way around the thing? I'm not going to dig around in there trying to figure out what controls what without someone handing me a big fat cheque.

Looks/structure do matter though.. if there's one sure way to drive users away from your site its going to be if the design is poor and they can't figure out how to get somewhere within a click or 2 between half a second of rampant scrolling.

[ajspiano]

Ok...you could always add a board for cat discussion since some people here get annoyed by it 

It did hit me yesterday that should anyone ever open a rank the chopin etudes thread I will have the ability to post the below image before locking the thread.

[j_menz]

It did hit me yesterday that should anyone ever open a rank the chopin etudes thread I will have the ability to post the below image before locking the thread.

You mean there's no inbuilt "strike poster with lightening" function admins have?

You need better software.

[chopin2015]

Haha! Totally. I just visited the site. Once you enter the forum, the place is easy to get through, and all. Let us know when you are ready to fire the thing off!!

Also, love the jazz section.

[ajspiano]

You mean there's no inbuilt "strike poster with lightening" function admins have?

You need better software.

Actually, there is a function to automatically revoke user privileges if enough people click the "this post is rubbish" button..

[outin]

You mean there's no inbuilt "strike poster with lightening" function admins have?

You need better software.

I think it would be technically easier to just add a "spam the poster's email with cat pictures" feature... and maybe less risk of legal action.

[chopin2015]

I think it would be technically easier to just add a "spam the poster's email with cat pictures" feature... and maybe less risk of legal action.

Yessss!

[j_menz]

Actually, there is a function to automatically revoke user privileges if enough people click the "this post is rubbish" button..

Haha. If that was turned on here, there'd be a race to get RSI or be toast.

[p2u_]

Actually, there is a function to automatically revoke user privileges if enough people click the "this post is rubbish" button..

There's a danger in this, of course; such "automatic" features can be abused really easily by people who can't stand each other. What you need is:
1) A decent registration procedure;
2) live moderation with zero tolerance by a moderator who knows the ropes.
P.S.: I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm Alan Fraser's secret weapon in this respect. [I do that for free, by the way.] I have admin rights on his forum, although I prefer to show myself as a limited user by default. This has several advantages: 1) people talk more openly with you because you're one of them and 2) the system is less easily compromised because you HAVE TO elevate your user rights with the admin password.

Paul

[chopin2015]

There's a danger in this, of course; such "automatic" features can be abused really easily by people who can't stand each other. What you need is:
1) A decent registration procedure;
2) live moderation with zero tolerance by a moderator who knows the ropes.
P.S.: I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm Alan Fraser's secret weapon in this respect. I have admin rights on his forum, although I prefer to show myself as a limited user by default. This has several advantages: 1) people talk more openly with you because you're one of them and 2) the system is less easily compromised because you HAVE TO elevate your user rights with the admin password.

Paul

Does alan have a brother named brendan fraser? 

[ajspiano]

There's a danger in this, of course; such "automatic" features can be abused really easily by people who can't stand each other. What you need is:
1) A decent registration procedure;
2) live moderation with zero tolerance by a moderator who knows the ropes.
P.S.: I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm Alan Fraser's secret weapon in this respect. I have admin rights on his forum, although I prefer to show myself as a limited user by default. This has several advantages: 1) people talk more openly with you because you're one of them and 2) the system is less easily compromised because you HAVE TO elevate your user rights with the admin password.

Paul

I don't anticipate using that feature somehow.

I have a couple of options for extra moderators already so that's looking positive (thanks, you know who you are).

I'd be interested to hear what you think qualifies as a decent registration procedure..  I was planning at least to require email verification.

[p2u_]

Does alan have a brother named brendan fraser? 

I have no idea about his personal details. We are merely kindred souls, spirits if you like in the field of retraining pianists and in the search for sound. I tend to avoid going deeper online. His forum has seen terrible SPAM attacks up to a point where it became impossible to even use it. I just proposed myself to save his resource since I have rather solid roots in the computer security business.

Paul

[p2u_]

I'd be interested to hear what you think qualifies as a decent registration procedure..  I was planning at least to require email verification.

We have a topic on that subject. In order not to repeat myself, please go here and read till the end. Some "automatic" features may have quite unexpected consequences.

Paul

[ajspiano]

Does alan have a brother named brendan fraser? 

If this is who you mean..



..then I'm going to say "no".

[chopin2015]

I have no idea about his personal details. We are merely kindred souls, spirits if you like in the field of retraining pianists and in the search for sound. I tend to avoid going deeper online. His forum has seen terrible SPAM attacks up to a point where it became impossible to even use it. I just proposed myself to save his resource since I have rather solid roots in the computer security business.

Paul

I was just kidding! Cant you see im lonely? Lol

[ajspiano]

We have a topic on that subject. In order not to repeat myself, please go here and read till the end. Some "automatic" features may have quite unexpected consequences.

Paul

Thanks.

Was already considering implementing a captcha during registration atleast too. The ban URL postings unless x number of posts is another one I'd considered aswell.. I would probably consider ban starting threads unless x posts too. Depends how active it is I guess.

Perhaps I should implement them immediately rather than delaying ( I had thought about adding these things over time)..  I hadnt considered the possibility that I may get spammed by bots rather than actual humans.

[p2u_]

I was just kidding! Cant you see im lonely? Lol

Oh, I'm so sorry. It's around 9 o'clock in the morning here and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. I'd better get one...

Paul

[p2u_]

I would probably consider ban starting threads unless x posts too.

I think that would be too extreme in the wrong direction. What if a person's first post is a cry for help for which he or she HAS TO open a new thread because it doesn't belong anywhere?

I hadnt considered the possibility that I may get spammed by bots rather than actual humans.

Remember the famous quote from Under Siege II - Dark Territory?
"Assumption is the mother of all *" Yes, that's right...

_{* Censored by the board's automatic software. One more time, p2u_, and you're history.}

Paul

[p2u_]

_{* Censored by the board's automatic software. One more time, p2u_, and you're history.}

P.S.: That was a joke I made up myself.

Paul

[ajspiano]

_{* Censored by the board's automatic software. One more time, p2u_, and you're history.}

hahah good try, but I'm fairly certain that smf can only directly replace text with some other text.. it doesnt offset it, or make any kind of query on the database to grab a username...

unless ofcourse PS has some custom code.. I don't get that impression though.

You're probably right re the starting new threads thing..  It was used on a board I used to frequent but it related to a specific section that was used to initiate user to user money exchanges... thus the tighter security. There was a 50 post minimum.

[fleetfingers]

Not sure if you were around during the becky/roger/ladypianist hoax, but it was one person using 3 different names. They would converse with each other and all of them posted fake recordings. When another user exposed the hoax, the administrators were able to check and verify that all three users were registered from the same computer. If they can look that up, why can't it be prevented in the first place? Set it up so that only one account can be created. Just a thought, if we are offering ideas to improve a forum. 

[p2u_]

the administrators were able to check and verify that all three users were registered from the same computer. If they can look that up, why can't it be prevented in the first place? Set it up so that only one account can be created. Just a thought, if we are offering ideas to improve a forum.  

This may work ONLY if the user is not very experienced in Networking. One and the same system (device) *can* be fingerprinted, but if the user has both a desktop and a laptop, you're already defeated. Besides, they can use different browsers, use different proxies, etc.
IP-address blocking is not a wise idea, because some Internet Service Providers allocate one and the same IP address to hundreds of users (they all go through one and the same tunnel so to speak). This means that you could potentially block good people.
P.S.: "Automatic" solutions based on software don't work very well. You need people who know people. I can mostly determine fraudulous usage merely by certain linguistic features, for example. Other people may have other points of focus.

Paul

[unholeee]

P.S.: That was a joke I made up myself.

Paul

yeah couldn't tell because you didn't bold everyhting.

[p2u_]

yeah couldn't tell because you didn't bold everyhting.

I bet the automatic software wouldn't flag the ugly word you hid there... Proves my point: we need people, not  software...

Paul

[pts1]

Hey guys

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't putting this in perspective be in order?

Part of the "protection" is that AJ's site WON'T be an online bank, porn site,  or Iran's secret plans for world domination.

Its just a bunch of piano players getting together for a friendly competition.

I'd think that right there would keep most nuts away.

BTW, I HATE those gotcha things at the bottom of web sites that say "type these 12 words to prove you are human"... and the 12 words look like little impossible to read Rorschach tests

Besides, this will be heady stuff for AJ, and he'll soon realize he is absolute monarch of this little world equipped with a super laser zapper button, and he can fry "displeasing persons" at his whim...

He could end up being the Piano Caligula!

So that right there is PLENTY of "security"!

Just sayin'

PS

Paul can be in charge remediation at the Piano Gulag where AJ will banish certain offenders to do hard time practicing Hanon with high fingers forever!

Bwahaaahaaaahaaa!

[outin]

BTW, I HATE those gotcha things at the bottom of web sites that say "type these 12 words to prove you are human"... and the 12 words look like little impossible to read Rorschach tests

You too? I never get them right the first time 

[keypeg]

I'm reading the first post introducing the new site.  One of the things I read half ways down is:

Im hoping this structure will minimise cheating and level the playing field a touch so that a less experienced pianist can beat an advanced one based on the effort they put in to learning and discussing their experiences.

I think that what prevented cheating the first time round, so that it was not even a thought, were the goals and purpose that were set up.  The fact of it being a competition needlessly got in the way, but everyone involved was caught up in the actual purpose.  Especially those of us at the lower end of the learning curve were interested in the learning and approach side of it.  There is nothing to minimize since you cannot minimize zero.  But the idea conjured up by the word "competition" attracted at least one individual who was then in this competitive atmosphere that brings out the worst in people, and that's what soured everything.  That single most preventive thing, imho, was the exploring-learning-teaching atmosphere we had.  I would have liked to see that in this new venture.  When it has the title "Competition" in the name of the new site itself, will that purpose come a cross and will it be preserved?  Or is there an inherent cross-purpose due to the nature of the thing?

Prizes will not necessarily be for best performance.. They may be for things such as, most improved performer since a previous event, most valued contributor to the discussion thread.. Etc.

This at least goes in the right direction.  With "most improved performance" you are competing against yourself (can this lead to the temptation of cheating?). The contributions to thread can also be a good antidote to the unpleasantness we saw.

Hopefully, this will be a successful enough operation that it is not only engaging for people like us who are totally piano obsessed but also as a teacher resource - so that real life students can be given a place to share their performances and be guaranteed to receive both constructive criticism and the encouragement of their peers. - something which they may not have access to, or perhaps limited access to even with a teacher.

This is the part that interests me (italics are mine).  May I suggest adding the idea of learning resource - it's almost the same but there is a shade of difference.

On a personal level I have some major differences in philosophy, but my personal beliefs should not enter into it.  They are as follows:  I do not like the idea of competitions, because it changes the atmosphere, the relationship to music, and even the interaction of peers.  I do not even like - personally - the idea of being "most improved" - because both as student and educator this can cause the mark to be missed.  As a learner I must overcome physical obstacles, poor habits, and I must acquire new ways of doing things and thinking etc.  In the course of this, temporarily my playing may actually become worse, and that may be a good sign that I'm doing the right thing.  Some teachers here may understand where I'm coming from.  So goals for me are things like: learning new ideas, exploring new things - rather than end results.  This puts me outside the world of competitions, and I may just go along for the ride.

Overall .... BRAVO!  Intent is 75% of the journey and the intent is right.

[Bob]

Interesting.  I didn't know this blew up like this.  I haven't read the whole thread but it's amusing enough.  Cheap entertainment.  


I got the Mayla and the Keypeg files. I stuck them both on Audacity.  I think they're different.  Completely different.  But I want to look at them more.  It's interesting enough.  I'll make another thread.

New thread
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=50662.0
Not pointing anything at anyone here or meant to stir anything up.  It's my entertainment/thinking experiment.