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Author Topic: Hanon Exercise no. 1 in D major scale. Its seems impossible tot do. Help me!  (Read 1580 times)
musicioso
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« on: January 31, 2013, 08:15:01 PM »

Hallo guy,

I am doing some of the Hanon exercises these days. Its pretty easy to do in C major scale, but today i decided to change the scale. I am trying to do the Hanon no.1 in D major, and its really hard because i need to play between the black keys, and thats damn hard for me to do and i also dont really know if i am doing it right.

I could not find a youtube video to see how other people do that. So i am asking you any kind of help and advise. Help me!!

Thanks in advance
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pts1
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 09:55:10 PM »

Ok

Here's my suggestion.

The first "group" of notes is: D F# G A B

Play this as a chord, i.e. all five notes at once.

Do this to get the "shape" of the hand and fingers and how you need to hold your arm.

Then "play" it, one note at a time up and down.

Then do the next position which would be: E G A B C#

Play it as a chord, get the shape, then play it up and down slowly.

Repeat this through each stepwise progression for one octave until you reach the starting point of D one octave higher.

Practice hands separately.

This should take a while, but this should give you the feel for the groupings and experience with the individual notes within the groups to work on the exercise.
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ajspiano
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 10:08:41 PM »


Then "play" it, one note at a time up and down.

Then do the next position which would be: E G A B C#

While I'm not a huge fan of recommending this kind of exercise - too easily done mechanically and without reference to the right focus points in terms of physical feel..   I'd be lying if I said I hadn't done it and seen a benefit myself.

What pts has said is the perfect solution, but i'll add that (this may have been obvious) you should "cycle" each modal variation of the given exercise motif.

eg. ||: E G A B C# B A G E :|| x a lot.

use varying dynamics, big wide crescendos over multiple repetitions, staccato, legato, mezzo staccato, varied rhythm.

This will dramatically reduce the amount of time required to master these new and initially somewhat awkward hand positions/shapes.
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musicioso
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 10:51:37 PM »

 pts1, ajspiano

Guys, thank you. Your suggestions are most welcome. Tomorrow i will try that. I will let you know. Maybe i will make a video to show you, so you can see if everything is alright.

Once again, i appreciate your help
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ajspiano
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 11:36:21 PM »

One other thing..  (this is quite difficult to properly illustrate in written form)

When looking for the "comfortable fit" hand position for these collections of notes, if you experience a sense of fingers being stuck or trapped in the black key area..

This can sometimes be resolved by adjusting the degree of rotation in your forarm, so that your fingers are slightly sideways..  this increases the distance you fingers can comfortably span and they fit between the black keys better..   I tried to find a picture of what I mean but I just can't Sad

Also, as you play the notes individually at higher tempos, the in and out pressures applied by your shoulder over the course of the motif will aid in resolving that feeling of being cramped. Careful conciously applying this though, you can over do it and have a negative result.
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musicioso
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 06:20:37 PM »

One other thing..  (this is quite difficult to properly illustrate in written form)

When looking for the "comfortable fit" hand position for these collections of notes, if you experience a sense of fingers being stuck or trapped in the black key area..

This can sometimes be resolved by adjusting the degree of rotation in your forarm, so that your fingers are slightly sideways..  this increases the distance you fingers can comfortably span and they fit between the black keys better..   I tried to find a picture of what I mean but I just can't Sad

Also, as you play the notes individually at higher tempos, the in and out pressures applied by your shoulder over the course of the motif will aid in resolving that feeling of being cramped. Careful conciously applying this though, you can over do it and have a negative result.


Thank you sir. You already helped me a lot. And thank you too, pts1. I did exactly like you suggested and its working way better than my previous attempt  Smiley

I dont have a problem with precision when playing in the black keys area because i have really thin fingers (girly fingers hehehe). And also because i did not/can not play at higher tempo yet. But the problem i have now is that when i play between black keys i need to press the keys harder. And thats going not very well. Its hard to play smoothly. Any advise/suggestion for that?

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pts1
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 06:59:08 PM »

Quote
But the problem i have now is that when i play between black keys i need to press the keys harder. And thats going not very well. Its hard to play smoothly. Any advise/suggestion for that?

A couple of things.

First, when you say you "play between the black keys", if you are meaning this literally, i.e. the narrowest part of the white keys between the black keys, then I suggest you adjust your position for the optimum placement on the keyboard.

If you imagine a straight line on the white keys where the black keys start, this is your "neutral" placement as opposed to way out on the edge of the white keys, or way in between the black keys toward the fall board (wooden keyboard cover).

With regard to more pressure being needed (and I think if you move to the position I describe, this should help with that) the hands/fingers are really designed to do one primary thing and that is to grip.

The muscles/tendons are already very strong, and as you know you're likely able to hang your entire body weight by holding on to a tree limb and dangling there -- or do chin ups, or other such things.

However, if you are pushing your fingers outward, i.e. away from the palm, or they are slipping away because they are not "gripping the key with the finger tip/pad" and pulling the key down and slightly toward you, then you are not using them to their advantage and they will feel weak.

Make sense?

If the piano was floating on air, the correct playing of it would constantly mean you are pulling it toward yourself.

So its important for your hand to be "alert" and formed to the "shape" of the "key cluster" you're going to play, and that each finger pull the key down with the feeling of gently gripping the key and pulling it toward you. (not a rigid hard hand!)

That's quite a bit of information, and if you can work on that with your Hanon in D major, I think you'll see what I mean.

Imagine the shape of your hand "holding" the D F# G A B as if you are about to "grasp" it gently, then play each key in the group as I described and see if you don't have a more "sure footed" feeling.
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musicioso
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 02:34:50 PM »

A couple of things.

First, when you say you "play between the black keys", if you are meaning this literally, i.e. the narrowest part of the white keys between the black keys, then I suggest you adjust your position for the optimum placement on the keyboard.

If you imagine a straight line on the white keys where the black keys start, this is your "neutral" placement as opposed to way out on the edge of the white keys, or way in between the black keys toward the fall board (wooden keyboard cover).

With regard to more pressure being needed (and I think if you move to the position I describe, this should help with that) the hands/fingers are really designed to do one primary thing and that is to grip.

The muscles/tendons are already very strong, and as you know you're likely able to hang your entire body weight by holding on to a tree limb and dangling there -- or do chin ups, or other such things.

However, if you are pushing your fingers outward, i.e. away from the palm, or they are slipping away because they are not "gripping the key with the finger tip/pad" and pulling the key down and slightly toward you, then you are not using them to their advantage and they will feel weak.

Make sense?

If the piano was floating on air, the correct playing of it would constantly mean you are pulling it toward yourself.

So its important for your hand to be "alert" and formed to the "shape" of the "key cluster" you're going to play, and that each finger pull the key down with the feeling of gently gripping the key and pulling it toward you. (not a rigid hard hand!)

That's quite a bit of information, and if you can work on that with your Hanon in D major, I think you'll see what I mean.

Imagine the shape of your hand "holding" the D F# G A B as if you are about to "grasp" it gently, then play each key in the group as I described and see if you don't have a more "sure footed" feeling.

This is a big eye opener. I am gonna practice right away. Will let you know how it works for me. Thank you sir!
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musicioso
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 12:44:03 PM »

Its working much better now. I found out that i do not need to press the keys much harder. It felt like tat because of the awkward finger positions. Now that my hand got used to it a little bit, its going easier. Dont need to press the keys very hard.

Thanks guys. Have a nice day
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