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Topic: Claire de Lune arpeggios  (Read 6160 times)

Offline in31l

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Claire de Lune arpeggios
on: April 02, 2014, 11:13:07 PM
Hi, first time poster here. Just some background (If you don't care, just skip to the second paragraph): I've been playing piano for about 10 years now, and I turn 19 this year. However, I just restarted piano a few months ago, after a two year break. I have a piano teacher, but she mainly just helps me learn new songs. I've never done any tests or theory, and I don't really plan to. I just play piano for fun. Early on I played mostly pop songs, but I started to play classical pieces just before I took the two year break. I know how to play easier pieces, such as Moonlight Sonata (mvt. 1) and Gymnopedie no.1.

About a month ago I started Claire de Lune. The first ~2 minutes of the piece is incredibly easy for me, but as soon as I get to the arpeggios, I fail. Horribly. If you look at the video I posted below, I fail beginning at 2:00. So far I've learned up to 2:25. I can do the part from 1:54 to 2:00 perfectly fine because it uses both hands, so I don't have to move that much. I fail purely because I can't get my left hand to move up and down the piano fast enough. I can probably do it at a tenth of the speed it should be played at. I've practiced this section hundreds of times to no avail. I've been stuck on the part that goes from 2:00 to 2:07 for weeks. My fingers just can't move fast enough. I haven't really seen much improvement over the last hundred times I've practiced the bar either. How much more practice do I need? Is it just too difficult a piece for me? Should I move on to another piece? Any tips or suggestions? Thanks.

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 09:48:37 AM
Oh, i used to struggle with exactly the same thing when I was 19!  :D  That is, 29 years ago ...

Suggestion 1: you really don't have to play those arpeggios very fast, you know. The piece sounds good also in a slower tempo. Personally I think the video you posted is too fast in the fast sections. No romantic moonlight, rather a stormy night.

Suggestion 2: keep on practicing with just your left hand. Play a lot with dotted rhytms but be careful to change the rhytm often, so that you don't get it "stuck" - the final goal is still to play very even, but even is just one version of uneven ... Also experiment with playing staccato or partial legatos.

Refine your practice to the troublesome spots - really, the whole bars are not difficult, it comes just when you have to move your hand upwards, and especially right after the "turn" when you are falling down again. At least it was like that for me.

Offline in31l

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 07:32:44 PM
Oh, i used to struggle with exactly the same thing when I was 19!  :D  That is, 29 years ago ...

Suggestion 1: you really don't have to play those arpeggios very fast, you know. The piece sounds good also in a slower tempo. Personally I think the video you posted is too fast in the fast sections. No romantic moonlight, rather a stormy night.

Suggestion 2: keep on practicing with just your left hand. Play a lot with dotted rhytms but be careful to change the rhytm often, so that you don't get it "stuck" - the final goal is still to play very even, but even is just one version of uneven ... Also experiment with playing staccato or partial legatos.

Refine your practice to the troublesome spots - really, the whole bars are not difficult, it comes just when you have to move your hand upwards, and especially right after the "turn" when you are falling down again. At least it was like that for me.


Thanks! That's good advice. I'm trying to keep the tempo steady. I guess when I get frustrated, I should take a break for a day, then come back to it. I'll practice a bunch today and see how it goes!

Offline muntjack

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 08:19:27 PM
Richter plays this at a much slower tempo and I find it near perfect.  Mixing up rhythms when practicing those arpeggios is key.  You'll find the lag between troublesome intervals mysteriously disappears. 

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 10:58:56 PM
Hi, first time poster here. Just some background (If you don't care, just skip to the second paragraph): I've been playing piano for about 10 years now, and I turn 19 this year. However, I just restarted piano a few months ago, after a two year break. I have a piano teacher, but she mainly just helps me learn new songs. I've never done any tests or theory, and I don't really plan to. I just play piano for fun. Early on I played mostly pop songs, but I started to play classical pieces just before I took the two year break. I know how to play easier pieces, such as Moonlight Sonata (mvt. 1) and Gymnopedie no.1.

About a month ago I started Claire de Lune. The first ~2 minutes of the piece is incredibly easy for me, but as soon as I get to the arpeggios, I fail. Horribly. If you look at the video I posted below, I fail beginning at 2:00. So far I've learned up to 2:25. I can do the part from 1:54 to 2:00 perfectly fine because it uses both hands, so I don't have to move that much. I fail purely because I can't get my left hand to move up and down the piano fast enough. I can probably do it at a tenth of the speed it should be played at. I've practiced this section hundreds of times to no avail. I've been stuck on the part that goes from 2:00 to 2:07 for weeks. My fingers just can't move fast enough. I haven't really seen much improvement over the last hundred times I've practiced the bar either. How much more practice do I need? Is it just too difficult a piece for me? Should I move on to another piece? Any tips or suggestions? Thanks.


The first thing that you need to study is the fact that the Impressionists were devotees of the Symbolist movement, which was in stark contrast to the Realists.  And, their favorite symbol was the Moon.

Musically, they were staunch anti-Romanticists, in terms of the piano.  That is why Debussy used to come un-glued during performances of his works when people romanticized them.

And, that is exactly what you are doing, as a million (literally) others have done before you.

So, I am going to leave with a link of someone who studied the piece under the composer, who was most pleased with his playing.  And, please notice the soft quick roll of most of his chords, just the way they are on the recordings of the Debussy piano roll "Debussy Composer As Pianist."

Enjoy, and by the way your playing of this piece is at a concert pianist level, so quit the false humble pie routine.  You are not fooling anyone.

And, as far as the arpeggiated section, you need to explore the Taubman Tapes section on the "Walking Hand."  You will never get it fast enough just trying to stretch for it.


Offline in31l

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #5 on: April 04, 2014, 08:35:44 AM
The first thing that you need to study is the fact that the Impressionists were devotees of the Symbolist movement, which was in stark contrast to the Realists.  And, their favorite symbol was the Moon.

Musically, they were staunch anti-Romanticists, in terms of the piano.  That is why Debussy used to come un-glued during performances of his works when people romanticized them.

And, that is exactly what you are doing, as a million (literally) others have done before you.

So, I am going to leave with a link of someone who studied the piece under the composer, who was most pleased with his playing.  And, please notice the soft quick roll of most of his chords, just the way they are on the recordings of the Debussy piano roll "Debussy Composer As Pianist."

Enjoy, and by the way your playing of this piece is at a concert pianist level, so quit the false humble pie routine.  You are not fooling anyone.

And, as far as the arpeggiated section, you need to explore the Taubman Tapes section on the "Walking Hand."  You will never get it fast enough just trying to stretch for it.




Wow! Information overload. Thanks! There are a lot of things in your reply I don't understand (I'm not familiar with classical music history), but clearly you know what you're talking about and I'll try to research some of the things you mentioned.

And sorry, but do you think that was me playing Clair de Lune in the video I posted? I can't play this piece at half the speed, let alone at a concert pianist level! I apologize if I didn't make that clear enough haha!

That is certainly an interesting rendition (but hardly considered a "rendition" if Debussy himself approved). But boy is that played rather fast. Thanks for all the info!

Offline in31l

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #6 on: April 04, 2014, 08:40:29 AM
Richter plays this at a much slower tempo and I find it near perfect.  Mixing up rhythms when practicing those arpeggios is key.  You'll find the lag between troublesome intervals mysteriously disappears. 

I just listened to his rendition. Sounds beautiful, and it makes me feel a bit better haha. Thanks.

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #7 on: April 04, 2014, 11:18:25 PM
Wow! Information overload. Thanks! There are a lot of things in your reply I don't understand (I'm not familiar with classical music history), but clearly you know what you're talking about and I'll try to research some of the things you mentioned.

And sorry, but do you think that was me playing Clair de Lune in the video I posted? I can't play this piece at half the speed, let alone at a concert pianist level! I apologize if I didn't make that clear enough haha!

That is certainly an interesting rendition (but hardly considered a "rendition" if Debussy himself approved). But boy is that played rather fast. Thanks for all the info!
Of course, everyone thought that was you playing in the video.  You did not state a disclaimer, to the contrary.

In short, you cheated, and you got caught.  Please leave this Forum discourse for those who are not playing game

Offline in31l

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Re: Claire de Lune arpeggios
Reply #8 on: April 04, 2014, 11:32:41 PM
Of course, everyone thought that was you playing in the video.  You did not state a disclaimer, to the contrary.

In short, you cheated, and you got caught.  Please leave this Forum discourse for those who are not playing game

O_o

Are you serious? Haha. The video I posted links directly to a youtube video that has 4 million views. I said I didn't know how to play it properly and linked the time stamps so people could understand where I was going wrong. I don't know what measures are, or how else to explain to people where I am going wrong in the song. Seems like everyone else knows that's not me playing. I said I start to fail beginning at 2:00, so why would I post a video of myself playing at a concert-pianist level? That is just where I start to fail playing the piece, when I'm actually playing it. I even said I've only learned up to 2:25, yet the song goes beyond that... lol. You're either a 62-year-old technologically-incompetent man, or you are pulling my leg and being sarcastic. If it's the latter, I apologize haha.


It would be as if I went on an opera forum instead, and posted a video that had 10 million views with timestamps saying where I couldn't hit the notes. If I can't hit the notes, why would I post a video of me hitting the notes? It's clearly just a video that shows where exactly I'm going wrong in the song. I don't even know why I'm explaining this to you... Everyone else in this thread has replied to me knowing that was not me playing. They even said I don't have to play it as fast as the videos I posted.
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