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Topic: Tired of crying  (Read 2838 times)

Offline cinnamon21

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Tired of crying
on: July 25, 2015, 08:25:11 PM
Right.
Here is my situation.
Currently at a summer music festival on a gap year to improve myself for Masters degree.
Stupidly talked about future and career, got told by the professor that the chance of winning competitions and become a pianist is impossible considering my age (21).

I don't even have any intentions of becoming world famous...but still...no need to tell me this. I already know this since I was 14. And I have cried enough knowing how late I was despite starting early due to living in a small city with an average teacher, resulting in bad technique and faulty basics...

Nonetheless, I still spent hours walking to the hotel bawling my eyes out..It makes me feel sad even though I know it's the truth...especially hearing this from a famous pianist. I know...don't have to say that phrase "You know it's impossible for you to become a pianist" out loud. It hurts too much for my weak mentality. I have always loved music...but I realized it has caused me to age a lot due to stress and pressure of not being good enough...I really hope someone can enlighten me. I really want to become a normal, happy girl...
Currently working on:

Bach - P&F in C# Major, BWV 872, Book II
Haydn - Sonata No.60 in C Major, Hob. XVI 50
Mendelssohn - Variations Serieuses
Debussy - Reflets dans l'eau
Ravel - Jeux d'eau

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #1 on: July 25, 2015, 08:57:26 PM
Hi Cinnamon21,
"Always loved music…"
I am assuming that also includes, 'love Playing music'… Each piece you bring into your own skin is an opportunity to express that love.. Being 'recognized' is another matter altogether…
Sometimes playing pieces more off the beaten track may make it  easier for You to hear/appreciate what you bring uniquely with your playing…  
Perhaps, the idea of making money -and the possible distress in that decision - is playing a part there, as well..  Being 'in the arts' ain't necessarily a secure thing, monetarily..
Think about what else is possible under the big music umbrella  in case you do not achieve what appears you have long wanted: winning competitions…  
4'33"

Offline cinnamon21

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #2 on: July 25, 2015, 09:12:54 PM
Thank you for the reply.
I usually play well in practice and in front of my families. For some reasons, I played so badly today because the piano keys are hard...and missed some notes. This concert pianists had to teach me step-by-step like a baby...which is...really embarrassing. Though I learnt something.

I feel like a complete beginner even though I play advanced pieces. It's so sad knowing how following my passion ends up like this...the piano now isn't like a friend...but an enemy that reveals my weaknesses and vulnerability. I feel bitter...have I really lost that love? I used to wake up early in the morning and run home after school to touch the piano and played for hours...and now...I fear it...this is frustrating.
Currently working on:

Bach - P&F in C# Major, BWV 872, Book II
Haydn - Sonata No.60 in C Major, Hob. XVI 50
Mendelssohn - Variations Serieuses
Debussy - Reflets dans l'eau
Ravel - Jeux d'eau

Offline throwawaynotreally

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 09:32:08 PM
.

Offline sabtan

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 09:46:13 PM
Hi Cinnamon,

It's hard to think straight when you are emotional and upset. So I suggest you leave any major decisions out at the moment.

Take the opportunity to take some time out and explore your surroundings and think about what you can/ want to do next

You are still young at 21. There are still many other possibilities.
You can still carry on to do Masters/ Doctorate... while it may not be a progression to being a concert pianist, but you are still in the industry. How you are going to do it is up for exploration.

Who's to say that being a concert pianist is without its struggles and frustration. With the competition and many upcoming talents these days, I really wonder how they can get it together sometimes.

So take a deep breath and mull over it slowly.

There's always a path somehow, you'll just need to look for it.
Current repertoire:

Haydn Sonata in C maj Hob 50
Bach Toccata and Fugue in G maj
Faure Nocturne no.2 in B maj Op 33
Faure Impromptu no.3 in A major Op 34
Debussy Reflets dans l'eau

Offline ted

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 10:12:09 PM
It's so sad knowing how following my passion ends up like this...the piano now isn't like a friend...but an enemy that reveals my weaknesses and vulnerability. I feel bitter...have I really lost that love? I used to wake up early in the morning and run home after school to touch the piano and played for hours...and now...I fear it...this is frustrating.

This thread is an appalling indictment of the cultivated ignorance of our musical education systems. How can you possibly respect people like that ? Stupid sods !

Nobody has the right or power to take away your love of your art and your enjoyment of practising it. This is just a fundamental truth, it is a property of your consciousness, psyche, soul, whatever you want to call it, and is independent of what other people say or do. You do NOT have a problem. Your teacher, on the other hand, has a mighty big one, possibly curable with the help of a blunt instrument.

The other members can advise you better than I about what course your music might take in pragmatic terms. The fact that you have posted here about it seems to me an indication of strength, not weakness. You know at heart no one can seriously damage you or your music. You WILL reclaim your love of music, because it is too deep to be lost in the first place. Make up your mind about it and get on with it, positively, with the help of whoever and whatever is necessary.  
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #6 on: July 25, 2015, 10:26:33 PM
Right.
Here is my situation.
Currently at a summer music festival on a gap year to improve myself for Masters degree.
Stupidly talked about future and career, got told by the professor that the chance of winning competitions and become a pianist is impossible considering my age (21).

I don't even have any intentions of becoming world famous...but still...no need to tell me this. I already know this since I was 14. And I have cried enough knowing how late I was despite starting early due to living in a small city with an average teacher, resulting in bad technique and faulty basics...

Nonetheless, I still spent hours walking to the hotel bawling my eyes out..It makes me feel sad even though I know it's the truth...especially hearing this from a famous pianist. I know...don't have to say that phrase "You know it's impossible for you to become a pianist" out loud. It hurts too much for my weak mentality. I have always loved music...but I realized it has caused me to age a lot due to stress and pressure of not being good enough...I really hope someone can enlighten me. I really want to become a normal, happy girl...
In 1971, I studied under a major professor at what is now UNT.  The man was an Ogre!

He specialized I humiliating his students in his lessons, and often times in the middle of a Jury.  His Karma eventually caught up with him, and he is now gone (we spoke kindly to each other before his death, basically because he couldn't possibly remember specifically who he screwed around).

However, and the point is, that any true pedagogue (which most piano teachers are not!) goes out of their way to focus on the positive aspects of a particular student.   Dorothy Taubman, to my knowledge, is the only major teacher who always focused on the linear causality necessary to have a pianist get from here to there.   She did not care less about some artificial competition standard.

The oldest phrase around when it comes to opinion is"  "consider the source."  In your particular situation, I am telling you that what you have experienced ( me, also personally) is nothing more than someone who DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO TEACH!!!

If you know in your heart and mind that you have the ability to play at high level, then get yourself to a teacher (Taubman recommended), or Thomas Mark, who can in a true physics/mechanics methodology, show you exactly how to effectuate this reality.

AND!!! do not forget about Daclcroze Eurhythmics.   Often times, the problem is an overall rhythmic sense lack of experience.

God made you a beautiful person.  Revel in it, and ignore anyone else to the contrary.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #7 on: July 25, 2015, 11:26:08 PM
Right.
Here is my situation.
Currently at a summer music festival on a gap year to improve myself for Masters degree.
Stupidly talked about future and career, got told by the professor that the chance of winning competitions and become a pianist is impossible considering my age (21).

I don't even have any intentions of becoming world famous...but still...no need to tell me this. I already know this since I was 14. And I have cried enough knowing how late I was despite starting early due to living in a small city with an average teacher, resulting in bad technique and faulty basics...

Nonetheless, I still spent hours walking to the hotel bawling my eyes out..It makes me feel sad even though I know it's the truth...especially hearing this from a famous pianist. I know...don't have to say that phrase "You know it's impossible for you to become a pianist" out loud. It hurts too much for my weak mentality. I have always loved music...but I realized it has caused me to age a lot due to stress and pressure of not being good enough...I really hope someone can enlighten me. I really want to become a normal, happy girl...


get some ice cream and watch some tv.   

please....21 years old??   sweetie, you have no idea what's waiting for you out there.

how can you let the words of one man determine your entire outlook on your future?  He didn't mean give up playing... he meant take things in a different direction--be smart and work towards a realistic goal....

I know that we get these ideas about what we are going to do with our playing when we are young...  we tend to get tunnel vision and not see any possibilities beyond that one dream--then when we realize that it doesn't exist the way we thought it did -- we are crushed.

Then the excuses come-- I have mediocre technique...my teacher was substandard and he was mean to me--my parents weren't supportive--blah blah blah        I could've been...I should've been...

STOP!!!!

finish your master's degree then worry about what you can and can't do.

one thing at a time... 

you are freaking yourself out...  ;D



Offline iansinclair

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 12:05:41 AM
Hang in there.  And, as the others who have posted have said -- take your time.  There are many paths in music, and this is surely not the only one.

I have a personal experience to share, though: my son went to a major international ballet competition, some many years ago now (20 or so), and the competitors were told, in no uncertain terms, that unless they placed into the final round of the competition they had no hope of being professional dancers, never mind really making a living at it.  My son was dropped on the first round.  Since we had non-refundable airline tickets, we enjoyed the city (Lausanne) together for the rest of the week.  The rest of the story?  My son retired four years ago as the premier danseur for one of the major ballet companies in North America, having made a very good living at it, thank you.

The moral of the story -- these judges and professors have little or no knowledge of the real world.  It may be worth while listening to their critiques of your performance, or it may not, but it certainly isn't worth while listening to their comments on your future in the field.

And at 21?  You have the possibility of at least 55 years ahead of you.  Who knows what you can do with it?
Ian

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 12:20:38 AM

The moral of the story -- these judges and professors have little or no knowledge of the real world. 

none at all... they live in their institutions surrounded by people who hang on their every word..lol often their sense of reality is a little askew -- to put it mildly.

and usually when these professors tell you why it's impossible for you to do it---what they are really telling you is why they themselves failed....

it has nothing to do with you or your skills at all.. ;)

Offline tritone_player

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #10 on: July 26, 2015, 12:26:52 AM
What somebody needs to tell this professor:

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #11 on: July 26, 2015, 12:32:43 AM

The Big Lebowski
 YEAH MAN

get some ice cream and watch this movie and all your cares will disappear!!



great flick
What somebody needs to tell this professor:


Offline tritone_player

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 12:33:39 AM
The delivery of that line is spot-on.

Offline cinnamon21

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #13 on: July 26, 2015, 05:43:20 AM
Thanks for the kind words and advice everyone...I really appreciate it...

Many of you told me not to let this concert pianist's words bring me down...but I'm just that weak. Last year and this year has just been a huge disappointment (bad habit. Injury. Leading to me hating piano)...It's true that I have a shitty teacher...she seems like a nice lady...but I realized now how bad she was...

Me: *Playing Chopin etudes*
Me: It hurts
Teacher: Just wait it will get better (How?!). It's hard for all of us (without offering further suggestions).

Me: For some reasons, I can't play this in tempo
Teacher: It's ok just slow down. Add rubato.
Me: But this is an etude
Teacher: As long as it is musical. Why do you care so much about speed? You're not a robot.

Me: I want to join a music festival
Teacher: Yeah if your parents can afford it then you can try

Me: *after graduating, playing badly in recitals (bad technique) and got injured*
Me: How can I get better?....If this goes on...I...should I even do this anymore?
Teacher: You know some people are good some people just aren't. You can always try to become a teacher.

I entered the school as an optimistic 17 year-old, having performed Rhapsody in Blue with my high school orchestra  Graduated at 20, crushed, developed bad habits and even injury.

It took me months to heal, relearn, read many books (Sandor, Fink, Chang, Bernhard's posts, Hoffman, Levinne, etc) and teach myself again how to play without tension...and I have gotten much better...so I decided to come to this festival to get some advice...But now...I'm back in that depressed mode again...
Currently working on:

Bach - P&F in C# Major, BWV 872, Book II
Haydn - Sonata No.60 in C Major, Hob. XVI 50
Mendelssohn - Variations Serieuses
Debussy - Reflets dans l'eau
Ravel - Jeux d'eau

Offline outin

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #14 on: July 26, 2015, 06:03:07 AM
Many pianists have revised their technique as adults, so why couldn't you? I think your main problem has been a weak self esteme and that's why you put up with your bad teacher for so long and gave a bit too much weight on the opinions of this particular concert pianist. Maybe you should shop around for a teacher who can actually help you. But first of all, you need to start listening to yourself as well, not just others. There's a middle ground between being too hard headed and stubborn and letting people stump on you. Not to say that many people who succeed seem to be of the first kind, causing them to fail as well occasionally. But failing can be a really good experience if you are able to get up and keep going.

Offline cinnamon21

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #15 on: July 26, 2015, 07:00:33 AM
True outin.

I really have low self-esteem. Sometimes I wonder if I'm bipolar.
I would be feeling happy about my playing and life one day...and one failed performance would bring me down again. It gets really ugly. Even I get sick of this cycle too...how I have allowed myself to be like this. I have also turned to religion for comfort and to cure my 'depression'. Teachers at uni told us not to 'dream too big'...from the very first day, I was set to be mediocre. I really want to be emotionally strong...argh...
Currently working on:

Bach - P&F in C# Major, BWV 872, Book II
Haydn - Sonata No.60 in C Major, Hob. XVI 50
Mendelssohn - Variations Serieuses
Debussy - Reflets dans l'eau
Ravel - Jeux d'eau

Offline outin

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #16 on: July 26, 2015, 07:20:56 AM
True outin.

I really have low self-esteem. Sometimes I wonder if I'm bipolar.
I would be feeling happy about my playing and life one day...and one failed performance would bring me down again. It gets really ugly. Even I get sick of this cycle too...how I have allowed myself to be like this. I have also turned to religion for comfort and to cure my 'depression'. Teachers at uni told us not to 'dream too big'...from the very first day, I was set to be mediocre. I really want to be emotionally strong...argh...

I think many great artists have been emotionally unstable...so maybe you could try to make it into an advantage? Just accepts the lows and make use of the highs? I am generally mentally sturdy, but hormonal changes affect my mood quite strongly. I've learned to detect that and just try to ignore it until it goes away...

Try not to question your own judgement all the time. You probably cannot change your cautious personality, but you can learn in small steps to take more risks and accept the occasional failures better. You just need to practice. Practice having the courage to not give in the first second you disagree with someone or don't understand their arguments. Even when they are supposed to be an authority. Speak you mind or at least make you mind to ignore what they say. Being a nice girl or boy all the time might make life easier in some way, since you won't be responsible for any of your decisions yourself. But it can also make you miserable in the end and prevent you from reaching any of your goals.

BTW. You are ONLY 21...You are not "ready"... There's plenty of time for you to mature and get more self confidence :)

Offline mjames

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #17 on: July 26, 2015, 08:54:47 AM
Oh please, forget about him. Just focus on your own progress. You don't need to be a concert pianist in order to be a great one. :) Just enjoy it man. I mean look at you, you're learning Ravel and Chopin monsterpieces...stuff that a lot of people (the kind that say...oh i wish I didnt quit as a kid!) wish they could play. You're awesome man, don't you forget that!

Offline ted

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 09:27:53 AM
Teachers at uni told us not to 'dream too big'...from the very first day,

Then they have no bloody business teaching anybody music. Those pieces you can play were not created by souls afraid to dream big. Words of wisdom from mjames and unanimous endorsement from this forum - there is nothing wrong with you ! Believe us !
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #19 on: July 26, 2015, 12:23:55 PM
True outin.

I really have low self-esteem. Sometimes I wonder if I'm bipolar.
I would be feeling happy about my playing and life one day...and one failed performance would bring me down again. It gets really ugly. Even I get sick of this cycle too...how I have allowed myself to be like this. I have also turned to religion for comfort and to cure my 'depression'. Teachers at uni told us not to 'dream too big'...from the very first day, I was set to be mediocre. I really want to be emotionally strong...argh...



and this too shall pass... :)

is there something else going on?  is someone sick or maybe a break up or divorce in the family?  don't mean to be nosy.. I am just getting the feeling that there is some transferred stress here... 

surely you have been questioning this path for a while...and this man is not the first naysayer you have come across...   

is it possible that turmoil elsewhere in your life is causing you to be more sensitive and to take this harder?

if you made through music school you must have taken a few knocks to the ego now and again...  why the drop in confidence?   the injury you mentioned almost as an afterthought... I don't think it's the root cause...

hating piano...  pretty strong words..   

did you start playing to make someone else happy?  mom or dad maybe?  was the piano chosen for you? or did you decide that's what you wanted to play.

psychoanalysis helps...lol..


theholygideons

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #20 on: July 26, 2015, 12:39:18 PM
True outin.

I really have low self-esteem. Sometimes I wonder if I'm bipolar.
I would be feeling happy about my playing and life one day...and one failed performance would bring me down again. It gets really ugly. Even I get sick of this cycle too...how I have allowed myself to be like this. I have also turned to religion for comfort and to cure my 'depression'. Teachers at uni told us not to 'dream too big'...from the very first day, I was set to be mediocre. I really want to be emotionally strong...argh...
you're not bipolar. Stop acting so needy and attention-seeking. As for performance, you have to understand that technique is a problem solved purely by deconstructing movements and having a high standard as to what is 'good enough'. Just because one has good musicality doesn't mean he naturally has good technique.  You're probably practising just as a form of resistance training, and not focusing properly on technique which is why you are not seeing any results.

Offline brogers70

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #21 on: July 26, 2015, 02:26:25 PM
you're not bipolar. Stop acting so needy and attention-seeking. As for performance, you have to understand that technique is a problem solved purely by deconstructing movements and having a high standard as to what is 'good enough'. Just because one has good musicality doesn't mean he naturally has good technique.  You're probably practising just as a form of resistance training, and not focusing properly on technique which is why you are not seeing any results.

The internet is great, isn't it? Even if mental health care is covered by your insurance it can be virtually impossible to find a provider in network in your area, so if you can't afford to pay top dollar, you may feel stuck. But you don't have to give up. Just bring your concerns about being bipolar to the internet and, free of charge, an expert will evaluate your case and make or rule out the diagnosis for you. And, as an added bonus, throw in some "tough love" therapy to top it off.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #22 on: July 26, 2015, 03:06:55 PM
The internet is great, isn't it? Even if mental health care is covered by your insurance it can be virtually impossible to find a provider in network in your area, so if you can't afford to pay top dollar, you may feel stuck. But you don't have to give up. Just bring your concerns about being bipolar to the internet and, free of charge, an expert will evaluate your case and make or rule out the diagnosis for you. And, as an added bonus, throw in some "tough love" therapy to top it off.

very kind of him    holygideons is not only an expert in teaching music theory (specifically the learning of cadences)  he is a psychiatrist as well... wow.

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #23 on: July 26, 2015, 04:56:40 PM
Right.
Here is my situation.
Currently at a summer music festival on a gap year to improve myself for Masters degree.
Stupidly talked about future and career, got told by the professor that the chance of winning competitions and become a pianist is impossible considering my age (21).

The professor who told you that is only expressing a narrow point of view from his/her own life.
Music and the way we interact with it is so vast it cannot be determined by concert pianist or competition for the future. But the Masters degree is worth gold for you. Go for that right now, it will add value to your life. Many who dont care about concert pianists or competitions will care about a Masters degree and you can find success.

Offline toughbo

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #24 on: July 26, 2015, 06:58:24 PM
Hi Cinnamon, have you hard about Lucas Debargue?

Offline avguste

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #25 on: July 26, 2015, 09:09:35 PM
Hi Cinnamon

I am really sorry to hear about your experience. Also, I don't know who that professor was/is, however I can tell you he is wrong. A few points:

1. last I looked, most major competitions occur every 2-4 years and allow pianists up to the age of 30 or so.

2. you are still young. 21 years old is not old at all. However now is the time to focus and fully dedicate yourself to becoming a concert pianist.

3. Don't pay attention and don't listento people who are not supportive of your goals, who are defeatist. Always remain focused and aim for your goal, at all costs.

4. Instead of waiting for someone to help you, help yourself by promoting yourself. This includes having your own website and daily contacting local presenters for recitals (and make sure to get paid...).

The above 4 items are just basic items and I hope they can help you.
I am not much around as I am very busy, so there is little chance for me to see any other posts. However, if you need to talk, if you need career advice,  don't hesitate to contact me by email (avguste@avgusteantonov.com), phone (817-601-5024) or Skype (avguste)

Keep your head high and always believe in yourself and believe in your goals.
Avguste Antonov
Pianiste Concertiste
Professeur de Piano | Conservatoire Intercommunal de Chateaubriant

Offline diomedes

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #26 on: July 27, 2015, 01:20:03 AM
Quote
have you hard about Lucas Debargue?

Now that's an interesting story.

For the op, as long as you don't feed off of people's negativity you will do well, and try not to be negative yourself either. If you work at what you want with enough intensity and determination, something good will come of it.
Beethoven-Alkan, concerto 3
Faure barcarolle 10
Mozart-Stradal, symphony 40

theholygideons

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #27 on: July 27, 2015, 03:33:43 AM
The internet is great, isn't it? Even if mental health care is covered by your insurance it can be virtually impossible to find a provider in network in your area, so if you can't afford to pay top dollar, you may feel stuck. But you don't have to give up. Just bring your concerns about being bipolar to the internet and, free of charge, an expert will evaluate your case and make or rule out the diagnosis for you. And, as an added bonus, throw in some "tough love" therapy to top it off.
It's obvious that she doesn't have bipolar. Her failure to bring her playing up to standard has nothing to do with being bipolar, she is just finding an excuse for her dissatisfactions. If she were seeing a little success, she might start calling herself a champion.

Offline outin

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #28 on: July 27, 2015, 03:59:19 AM
It's obvious that she doesn't have bipolar. Her failure to bring her playing up to standard has nothing to do with being bipolar, she is just finding an excuse for her dissatisfactions. If she were seeing a little success, she might start calling herself a champion.

You do realize that saying "sometimes I wonder if I am..." is just a saying commonly used when you notice similarities in youself/your behavior to something. It doesn't mean that the OP actually thinks he/she is bipolar.

Just like you could say "sometimes I wonder if I am a total jerk" without actually believing it ;)

theholygideons

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #29 on: July 27, 2015, 04:44:41 AM
You do realize that saying "sometimes I wonder if I am..." is just a saying commonly used when you notice similarities in youself/your behavior to something. It doesn't mean that the OP actually thinks he/she is bipolar.

Just like you could say "sometimes I wonder if I am a total jerk" without actually believing it ;)
Yet certain people on this forum are taking it so seriously as to recommend treatment.

Offline outin

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #30 on: July 27, 2015, 05:26:56 AM
Yet certain people on this forum are taking it so seriously as to recommend treatment.

Well...it's the internet...caters for all kinds...:P

Offline outin

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #31 on: July 27, 2015, 05:44:03 AM
Also, I don't know who that professor was/is, however I can tell you he is wrong.

While it's possible that this teacher is simply a jerk who likes to crush young people's dreams, it might also be part of his teaching strategy. To make a great career one needs to believe in oneself, unconditionally. Those who do will only take something like this a challenge and think to themselves: “I'll show that guy” and work double hard.

Unfortunately this kind of approach may have less fortunate consequences for those who have little self-confidence and who would settle for less than a big international career. They might start to think they aren't even good enough to be any kind of a performer.

Offline rmbarbosa

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #32 on: July 27, 2015, 11:50:07 AM
Do you know Lisitska? How old was she when she began putting her videos in youtube? And now she plays in the most important stages in the world...
Nowadays, being young is prone like a "dogma" ... you must be young to do this... you must be young to do that... you are too old for...
But being 21 years old is "too old" for what? I have a fellow who began playing piano on his sixties. Once he told me: as now I`m retired, I wish to do all those things I couldnt do in my life... and now, with 71 years old, He play the Apassionata very but very very well...
Never say "it`s too late". Never say "if I could". Today is allways the first day of the rest of our lives... and eveything is possible. Do say: "When I can..."
Like Obama said once: YES, YOU CAN".
Best wishes, my friend.
Rui

Offline amytsuda

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #33 on: July 27, 2015, 04:01:27 PM
Hi Cinnamon,

I see you are working on so many great and super difficult pieces from all different eras that all require very different approaches. Do you have a composer or types of pieces with which you tend to do well even when you switch piano (e.g. heavy hard keys, light bouncing keys)? Do you have a composer you are more familiar with in terms of historical backgrounds, compositional styles, ways of interpretation, etc?

I wonder if you can build on your strengths. Mitsuko Uchida is not known for Liszt and Angela Hewitt is not known for Shoenberg. And most pianists have things they excel and don't excel. If you can come up with something you can consistently demonstrate your superior understanding, the audience will hear you. Someone will hear you. Even if not those technicians profs.

I was just listening to Claudia Arrau recordings and I heard he is hitting so many wrong keys and fumbling a bit. But he definitely showed his great interpretation and that's why we rather listen to him, not your prof!

And if you have areas you are always confident, you can always keep those in your program or play those in the occasion like you had. I know you may be thinking you want to improve your weakness but those profs seem not to want to teach, but just want some playing machines.

It seems you are still in your ways to adjust your techniques and work out the habits you got from unfortunate trainings. Adjusting techniques takes a long time. That's probably why you had challenges with the heavy hard piano at the festival. But also it seems you are very musical. If you are not musical, you won't be accepted to those festivals. So on  piano that works with you, you probably sound super super great. So just stay patient and keep working out on your technical habits, and in the mean time, start showing off what you are good at.   

Offline cinnamon21

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #34 on: July 27, 2015, 09:53:03 PM
Thank you for all the replies everyone. I have read each one of them and will try to work on these issues with all of your advice and help.

Funny things happened these 2 days. Right after lesson yesterday, this concert pianist suddenly offered to drive me back to the hotel since it's almost 6 pm. He ACTUALLY drove me back and we talked about funny things and his life. Then he kept complimenting my sound though my playing wasn't perfect. He patted my shoulder a lot and was very kind, too kind even! Very strange. Maybe he saw my swollen eyes on the next lesson....as he kept asking "Are you okay? " many times.

Currently working on:

Bach - P&F in C# Major, BWV 872, Book II
Haydn - Sonata No.60 in C Major, Hob. XVI 50
Mendelssohn - Variations Serieuses
Debussy - Reflets dans l'eau
Ravel - Jeux d'eau

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #35 on: July 27, 2015, 10:27:17 PM
Thank you for all the replies everyone. I have read each one of them and will try to work on these issues with all of your advice and help.

Funny things happened these 2 days. Right after lesson yesterday, this concert pianist suddenly offered to drive me back to the hotel since it's almost 6 pm. He ACTUALLY drove me back and we talked about funny things and his life. Then he kept complimenting my sound though my playing wasn't perfect. He patted my shoulder a lot and was very kind, too kind even! Very strange. Maybe he saw my swollen eyes on the next lesson....as he kept asking "Are you okay? " many times.


He, or someone he knows, reads this forum.  Don't kid yourself.  He has had his "jain jerked" and is terrified his name will be revealed.

"DROP YOUR TEACHER!!"  He has shown his true colors.

And, do you know what, with all due respect, you will give him a second, third, and fourth chance to come around.  The best thing that ever happened to me is when my coach, voted the best young student teacher in Texas, unceremoniously dumped as my coach.

That is how I ended up with Dr. Thomas Mark, whom I consider to be the best technique coach in the world.  And, for those who don't believe, please travel to Portandia and find out for yourselves.

The point is to, as suggested by others, quit whining, get a new teacher, and then move positively and aggressively towards your goal of attaining a Masteres Degree.  You would not have gotten this far if you could not play, and please, please, erase your age from the equation.

You will get there when you get there!

Offline cinnamon21

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #36 on: July 27, 2015, 10:40:16 PM
Louispodesta

It's midnight here and your comment scares me. I hope that's not the case.
Currently working on:

Bach - P&F in C# Major, BWV 872, Book II
Haydn - Sonata No.60 in C Major, Hob. XVI 50
Mendelssohn - Variations Serieuses
Debussy - Reflets dans l'eau
Ravel - Jeux d'eau

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #37 on: July 27, 2015, 11:41:42 PM
Maybe he simply realises he was too harsh and feels guilty.

You shouldn't panic about your age. There's plenty time - remember only a vanishingly small number of pianists of whatever age will ever become world-famous, but with application and belief there is no reason why someone who is playing the pieces you're playing cannot ultimately have some sort of pianistic career, even if it's just on a national level. Ignore people who say "you can't". Many of them say "you can't" because they haven't fulfilled whatever they wanted to. At your age you don't have (I assume) adult preoccupations like raising family, paying mortgage, etc - this is a good time to focus and be positive. There is one sure-fire way to not succeed, and that's to not try.
My website - www.andrewwrightpianist.com
Info and samples from my first commercial album - https://youtu.be/IlRtSyPAVNU
My SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/andrew-wright-35

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #38 on: July 28, 2015, 03:44:46 AM
Right after lesson yesterday, this concert pianist suddenly offered to drive me back to the hotel since it's almost 6 pm. He ACTUALLY drove me back and we talked about funny things and his life. Then he kept complimenting my sound though my playing wasn't perfect. He patted my shoulder a lot and was very kind, too kind even! Very strange. Maybe he saw my swollen eyes on the next lesson....as he kept asking "Are you okay? " many times.



hmmmm..... 

well...  I would say he saw the pain in your face and he felt guilty...

but complimenting your sound when the playing wasn't exceptional...  well that's a tough one isn't it.. 
kinda makes you not trust his opinion--and question his motives...  if he has any experience as a teacher...that's something you don't mess around with...   so either he was flattering you and he has questionable motives or---his compliment was sincere and  you are the kind of player who thinks anyone who compliments you is an idiot and anyone who doesn't is a jerk--and anyone who points out an imperfection knows way more than you... lol...  I have suffered from this affliction...

it can really screw up your mind...

Offline amytsuda

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #39 on: July 28, 2015, 06:27:09 AM
The prof really doesn't seem to know how to teach. His job is to teach you, not to judge you either good or bad.

In the end, we all have our ears so we should know how we play and played. Obviously, you recognized that the keyboard wasn't kind to you and you couldn't express what you could normally express. So that's already enough and you don't need a teacher to judge you around on things that don't help you. The teacher should inspire you with approaches about how your techniques can gain more ease or ways to interpret the music, so next time you play, you'd express your music better.

Don't worry, keep working at it to make him hear your music and maybe he can learn from you.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #40 on: July 28, 2015, 04:48:23 PM


In the end, we all have our ears so we should know how we play and played



...as beautiful that sounds--it's just not the case with many students...   yes we all have ears--but not all ears know what to listen for.   at some point in almost every musician's early life they told someone how much they really loved a song--or a performance--or a performer...  and then had to listen to that someone tell them that in reality it sucked.  Most if not all young musicians also experience the devastation of having practiced very hard on something--and believing it to sound amazing---they take it to their teacher thinking surely "my teacher will love this..."  lol--- only again to be told "it sucks."

and if you make it past all that and get to music school....then they also make you take ear training because...well  most folks aren't born with the ability to identify tonality, intervals, harmonic progressions and the like...  wow-- many students learn in that first semester that they can't hear squat...  (yes--I was one of those)

all that swimming around in your head can make you suddenly have a panic attack and think....

"wow, I suck at this...  I think I sound great but really I sound awful...people are just being nice when the say I play well,  really they feel sorry for me....   those people over there are laughing at my playing because I suck so bad,...what was I thinking?  I can't play this thing---?? OMG every note I play is crap--someone kill me before I murder all music"

then in the middle of this neurosis someone tells you--"wow you play great!!!"

and you are like...  really?     >:( >:( >:(  sometimes you actually feel animosity for the person who just complimented you...   



yes we should all know if we played well... but do we?

yes...I speak from experience...lol  ;D








Offline roncesvalles

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #41 on: July 28, 2015, 05:11:25 PM
I hope you feel better.   The important thing is to keep studying, to keep working, and to not forget what it is about music that you loved.  

The word "pianist" means a lot of things.   There are the Carnegie Hall pianists of the world, but there are many more who achieve more of a modest notoriety doing what they love.   Even Chopin, who wrote some of the most demanding piano music out there, gave up hope of being a public virtuoso. There is plenty of worthy music that hasn't been recorded.   There are singers and instrumentalists that need accompaniment.  There are young people everywhere who need a teacher who is sensitive, knowledgeable, and encouraging.   The important thing is to everyday seek in music what you love about it--and to hold that closely.

Another thing is to not stop seeking getting better.   Almost every pianist goes through a period in which he or she evaluates what he or she is doing, and how to get better.   When Liszt heard Paganini play, he practiced like a madman on every aspect of his playing for hours a day.   When Alkan first heard Liszt play, he cried because his playing felt inferior, and this changed the course of his playing (Liszt in old age recalled that Alkan became the greatest technical pianist he had come across in his long life).   Busoni was already a big name in his late twenties, when he systematically reformed his technique.   He was known to come home from an apparently successful concert and practice the very same pieces he played that night, for hours, exploring new ways to present the pieces. A few years later he was regarded as arguably the best in the world.     I'm not saying you will be the best player in the world, but if you, with clear eyes, look at what you're doing, realize what you can do better, and know what it is that you're not good at yet, you can get there.    

There are two things you can always do--refine it is what you do well (polish), and work at those things you don't do well (build).   In time you will be able to polish what you are currently building.  It takes a lot of patience.  It won't happen overnight.  But you can do it.  Don't beat yourself up over missed notes or anything you do. A musical piece isn't something that just happens once--you can always get better at it. Just don't lose sight for your love of music, and don't forget beauty (which is easy to do in an academic setting, when every little thing is scrutinized).


Offline dcstudio

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Re: Tired of crying
Reply #42 on: July 28, 2015, 08:09:24 PM
  He was known to come home from an apparently successful concert and practice the very same pieces he played that night, for hours, exploring new ways to present the pieces.




you know you love what you do when you come home from a 3 hour concert and you want to play more..lol.   I don't play 3 hour concerts--just little 3 hour gigs--but I almost always sit right back down at the piano when I come home...    for me...my hands work so well at those times...they're all warmed up and I already have an agenda of what I want to work on -- I tend to get a lot done.

I have played for 46 years and I am still learning and still getting better...   there was a time about 25 years in--when I believed without question-- this is as good as I am going to get... I mean come on...I have been trying forever...  I just can't do any better than this..

I was wrong. ;)
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