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Topic: The Technique Master Thread  (Read 2465 times)

Offline invictious

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The Technique Master Thread
on: September 27, 2016, 10:51:42 AM
1) What exactly is technique?
Having the means to get the sound that you want? Consistency? Minimising unnecessary movements? Being able to play the Chopin Etude 25/6 under 90 seconds? Being Asian / Russian and playing the Rach 3 at the age of 12?

2) How does one exactly acquire technique?
Osmosis from learning pieces? Drilling Czerny / Hanon / Chopin Etudes / Liszt's Transcendental Etudes? Scales and arpeggios all day? Having Asian parents? Innate ability?
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

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Offline adodd81802

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Re: The Technique Master Thread
Reply #1 on: September 27, 2016, 11:56:58 AM
Questions like this never lead to anywhere because such a thing in such a complex art is not definable. Your only answer is take the definition as it stands and incorporate that into your specific craft

"A way of carrying out a particular task, especially the execution or performance of an artistic work or a scientific procedure."

I will elaborate on this as far as to say that it is to do it in the easiest way. You should not struggle to carry out your task, it should not strain or cause injury, it should not be laborious.

That is the fact of it. Whether or not some of this "technique" is, by chance, already known or whether it is taught later, one thing is true - is that no matter how far ahead you start, it still takes a LOT of work to get to the top. Whether you see it as work, defines whether or not you will master your craft.

Do not ever try to specifically define it; By that I mean do not try and say "well i can play that 1 second quicker then you" or "I could play that when i was 6 years old" because it's simply wrong and obviously your comments on culture are just silly.

Piano, and instruments in general are a very subjective field of discussion because there is rarely ever a clear "winning performance" and relate that to technique.

How to improve, really just comes down to my first point, if it hurts - do it differently! if it sounds bad, do it differently, if you can't do it, do not force yourself to do it that way but do it differently.  Through trial and error + a good teacher you can improve what you want to define as technique.

"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Offline cimirro

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Re: The Technique Master Thread
Reply #2 on: September 27, 2016, 04:32:55 PM
You can understand technique (in piano) as the set of necessary tools for making the piece sounds as it must be - making music is the point!
Sometimes it requires a special fingering, sometimes different positions of the hand, but there is no mystery at all if you pay attention to YOUR hand and follow "adodd81802" instruction concerning not having pain as the most important rule for your life. Pain is always a problem.

I'm not Russian and I'm not Asian, I'm Brazilian and there is no tradition on classical music here nor brilliant piano teachers available over the country.
I had to do my own way, in a very late time, my first contact with a piano at 14 years old, and serious study only after 20/21 year old, I'm turning 34 now.
I never studied scales or books of exercices, anyway often I see what is inside these books.
and you can listen my scales on Chopin Op.53 (and check other videos and audios from my CDs too)

I don't think my "technique" is bad at all.

Concerning the second question (Acquire Technique)
It depends of what you want.
If your goal is "L'isle Joyeuse" there is no need to study Messiaen.
So, what are your favorite pieces? Where are your problems?

Usually when teaching, I would recommend the student to think about possibilities of solving the technical problems with small exercises made with the same notes where he/she is having trouble. It always worked fine.
So, I use to prefer the study of repertoire, and the most important, the repertoire must be something of your taste.
We have a huge number of pieces by a huge number of composers, sometimes you do not want to play a Chopin Etude because you don't like it, but you can find the same technique in different pieces and one of them will make you happy for sure (sometimes the composer is unknown for the great public, but it is another topic).
The most important in my opinion is the "well tempered music", nothing is more important that doing music.
Speed is easy if you use the right fingering, positions and relaxations.

Hope this helps, if you think I can give any other help write a PM.

All the best
Artur
"Solitary trees, if they grow at all, grow strong."
Winston Churchill

Offline minhogang

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Re: The Technique Master Thread
Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 07:41:38 AM
My tips for technique:

1. Play Hanon everyday until you can play it in full tempo, and without strain. Then leave it. There was a time in the 1900s where the Moscow Conservatory required students to play Hanon at all tonalities in high speed. You don't need to go this far.

2. If you're at the level where Hanon doesn't do much, there should not be much repertoire that you cannot play. I would suggest Bach's well tempered clavier, Chopin and Liszt etudes (not the very difficult ones)

3. I found finger independence/strengthening exercises to be very very useful, the best being the first book of Liszt's technical exercises. After abandoning Hanon just practice this and scales/arpeggios in octaves to maintain fluid wrist technique.

Honestly, technique comes from everything and with time. Just because one can play Hanon in 45 minutes, play whatever book of exercises and all of Czerny's etudes in one sitting does not mean he/she is a great pianist. Play pieces that challenge you. Technicality is not the only thing that makes you a great pianist, it's also musicality. Alfred Cortot was a pianist that made many mistakes in live performances, yet many people loved him because of his eccentric playing. I wouldn't want to watch someone that can play Chopin's Ballade 4 flawlessly but with no emotion.

Offline cimirro

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Re: The Technique Master Thread
Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 04:33:32 AM
The only problem I see in "minhogang" opinion is that this is not helpful for everything.
This will works fine if you want a "standard" playing with a conservatory-like tradition. Which is not bad at all.
But these exercises books will not be too helpful to repertoire after 1900 for example, and sometimes even for Chopin or Liszt and the 1800's... normally they are too much "classical" (meaning the period of music history)
And again, I'm always sad to see that people often mention Chopin etudes are "very hard".
We had a great evolution of the piano playing after Liszt; Now Chopin is basic repertoire, standard, not "very hard" or "virtuoso".
These are wonderful etudes, but the lack of knowledge of repertoire is the main problem I think.
Of course most part of pianists use to keep this "tradition" so it is easy (if you have a good marketing) to say you are a great master playing Chopin etudes.
Anyway, It is so easy to list a lot of etudes which are so far much harder than any Chopin etude (and I'm not thinking about contemporary stuff, we can stay with the romantics and find much more challenge than Chopin etudes)
All Chopin etudes can be played by an student today, I have seen children playing almost the complete sets of Op10 and Op25 when they enjoy the music. (and sometimes because their fathers enjoy...)

And I agree, playing exercises do not make you a pianist.
And you need to play with emotion, but I add: "playing with emotion" is very subjective.
One can say "Michelangeli played without emotion" and hate him
other say "Michelangeli played with emotion" and cry listening to him
this is our personal taste, this is not a rule for the art
Was Michelangeli thinking his recording was played with emotion? Maybe that is a question without answer now...?

Usually I say to my students "taste is enemy of art"... then I start to teach about contemporary composition, repertoire and its history.
If I like or not, this is just my opinion, I need to teach and make the art too.
The public decide what they want, and that's all...

If someone from the public don't like you (and no matter what happens, always at least one will not like you) that doesn't mean you are not good or played without emotion.
But ok, you need to think about when all the public ask you to get out! :D

"minhogang" recommendations are interesting and useful anyway.

Best
"Solitary trees, if they grow at all, grow strong."
Winston Churchill
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