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Topic: Rach 3  (Read 9754 times)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Rach 3
on: August 14, 2017, 09:31:44 PM
Hey so as all of you probably know, this is my favorite piece EVER since I was a kid.  And I've tried learning this several times but I just gave up.  But this time I'm actually going all in!  So I thought why not post my progress.  Cause this is such a huge piece and this is gonna be a long project.  I mean my name IS Rachmaninoff_forever so...

No but yeah so I'm gonna post my progress on here and post questions on fingerings and techniques and all that stuff.

Does anyone have fingerlings for when the first piu mosso starts in the first movement?
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Offline isyriel

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #1 on: August 19, 2017, 10:06:53 PM
sorry bout the wide shot, i think you can zoom in tho lol.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #2 on: August 29, 2017, 03:34:24 PM
Thanks isryel 8)

Also could someone or you send me their picture of the third measure after rehearsal 8?  I'm pretty sure like all the notes are wrong in my edition
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 04:24:50 AM
I'm almost done with the first movement.

I haven't hit a wall yet so haven't come across anything that seems impossible.  As of now I think the second concerto is harder.  The third concerto surprisingly fits in the hand REALLY well.  It's just A LOT of notes.  The second concerto is like 8 minutes shorter and maybe like 40% less notes but there are a few really awkward spots that even to this day I can never get used to.  The Cadenza (ossia) is EASY and a lot of fun.  The first time you start playing fast (It's like page 4 pui mosso) I think is the hardest part of the first movement so I'm doing that last.

I also learned the last tocatta like section of the second movement.  It's kinda like a baby Scarbo.  it's kinda hard but it fits in the hand so well.

But yeah dude overall the thing that makes this piece hard is that its SO MANY DAMN NOTES

Literally everything about everything about the piece is just dense
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Offline mjames

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 05:14:09 AM
The point of posts like these is to post recordings of your practice sessions. Come on boy don't be a wimp, post those babies up.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: mjames on September 03, 2017, 05:14:09 AM
The point of posts like these is to post recordings of your practice sessions. Come on boy don't be a wimp, post those babies up.

Say no more

I can't practice today though cause I gotta watch my grandma tonight
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 10:49:17 PM
Just kidding I'm only gonna post it when I think its performance ready.

But ANYWAYS...

First movement is totally memorized and like maybe 80% up to speed.  I had a lesson with it today and I completely forgot there was an opening melody cause I've been working on everything else lol
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Offline mjames

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 02:18:12 AM
it's okay I know how you feel
I've promised a few recordings for a few pieces before and always get lazy and end up forgetting about it lol
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 03:20:08 AM
Also how big is the string section for the orchestra part?

Cause I'm trying to start an orchestra for it
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Offline mjames

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 03:40:45 AM
no idea, you're the conductor. isn't it scored for a full size orchestra?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 04:11:13 AM
Quote from: mjames on October 05, 2017, 03:40:45 AM
no idea, you're the conductor. isn't it scored for a full size orchestra?

I'm not conducting it I'm too busy plaing piano lol

yeah but what is a full size orchestra?  I found on IMSLP they list every instrument except for the string section.  It's literally, 'two flutes, two oboes blah blah blah...  and strings' 

what does 'and strings' mean?  How many oiif what dk i need/
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #11 on: October 30, 2017, 06:41:53 PM
Teacher told me to learn the entire second movement in a week

I got two days left

I can't feel my face
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Offline tnan123

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 03:02:09 PM
Can you clarify what your goal is? You are putting together an orchestra yourself to perform it? I doubt that is a good idea. Where are you finding all these musicians? You probably need to find an assembled orchestra with a conductor already, either a professional one or one at a music school. Convincing them to perform the concerto with you will also be a challenge.

You're probably best to find another pianist to play the orchestra part on a 2nd piano honestly, unless I'm vastly underestimating the resources and connections you have. So please correct me if I'm wrong.

Nevertheless, it's quite an ambitious goal and I applaud the dedication and wish you the best of luck! It's an amazing piece so thanks for sharing your progress.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #13 on: October 31, 2017, 03:17:45 PM
Quote from: tnan123 on October 31, 2017, 03:02:09 PM
Can you clarify what your goal is? You are putting together an orchestra yourself to perform it? I doubt that is a good idea. Where are you finding all these musicians? You probably need to find an assembled orchestra with a conductor already, either a professional one or one at a music school. Convincing them to perform the concerto with you will also be a challenge.

You're probably best to find another pianist to play the orchestra part on a 2nd piano honestly, unless I'm vastly underestimating the resources and connections you have. So please correct me if I'm wrong.

Nevertheless, it's quite an ambitious goal and I applaud the dedication and wish you the best of luck! It's an amazing piece so thanks for sharing your progress.

I already found a conductor and getting the percussion and wind instruments won't be a problem but getting the strings together is gonna be tough cause I need a giant string section.  So I'll probably just have to do with a smaller amount and just tell them to play louder.

But that's the back up plan if I don't win my school concerto competition or my local orchestra won't hook me up

Besides piano accompaniment for piano concertos always suck
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Offline tnan123

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on October 31, 2017, 03:17:45 PM
Besides piano accompaniment for piano concertos always suck

Yes, I definitely agree about piano accompaniment :D Are you currently in music school then? Glad to hear you have some parts of an orchestra all ready! Many of us don't have such opportunities to play with any type of orchestra for any concerti so I'm curious how you are managing it? Are you paying these other musicians?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #15 on: October 31, 2017, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: tnan123 on October 31, 2017, 04:03:40 PM
Yes, I definitely agree about piano accompaniment :D Are you currently in music school then? Glad to hear you have some parts of an orchestra all ready! Many of us don't have such opportunities to play with any type of orchestra for any concerti so I'm curious how you are managing it? Are you paying these other musicians?

Yeah I'm a first years masters student

I'm just asking people in my wind ensemble if they'd do it for free and they said yeah lol

And someone else in my studio said he's always wanted to conduct rach 3 so he's doing it for me
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Offline pianoplayer002

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #16 on: November 01, 2017, 12:41:21 PM
You need to start the thrid movement ASAP because I hear that's the hard one.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #17 on: November 01, 2017, 03:27:58 PM
Quote from: pianoplayer002 on November 01, 2017, 12:41:21 PM
You need to start the thrid movement ASAP because I hear that's the hard one.

Second movement done I just gotta memorize it

I plan on finishing the last movement by the new year

Also the last movement of the second concerto is the hardest movement from both concertos
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #18 on: November 03, 2017, 06:21:41 PM
Played the first movement for studio today

HOLY sh*t it sucked

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Offline tenk

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 09:04:44 PM
When will get an Audition Room post with your progress?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #20 on: November 04, 2017, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: tenk on November 03, 2017, 09:04:44 PM
When will get an Audition Room post with your progress?

I'll play the first movement in studio next Friday and if it doesn't suck I'll post jt
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Offline tenk

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #21 on: November 05, 2017, 08:48:10 PM
Post it even if you think it sucks. It is far easier to incorporate feedback while you're learning this monumental piece than it is to "finish", and then try to change.
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Offline isyriel

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #22 on: November 07, 2017, 01:23:08 AM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on September 03, 2017, 04:24:50 AM
I'm almost done with the first movement.

I haven't hit a wall yet so haven't come across anything that seems impossible.  As of now I think the second concerto is harder.  The third concerto surprisingly fits in the hand REALLY well.  It's just A LOT of notes.  The second concerto is like 8 minutes shorter and maybe like 40% less notes but there are a few really awkward spots that even to this day I can never get used to.  The Cadenza (ossia) is EASY and a lot of fun.  The first time you start playing fast (It's like page 4 pui mosso) I think is the hardest part of the first movement so I'm doing that last.

I also learned the last tocatta like section of the second movement.  It's kinda like a baby Scarbo.  it's kinda hard but it fits in the hand so well.

But yeah dude overall the thing that makes this piece hard is that its SO MANY DAMN NOTES

Literally everything about everything about the piece is just dense

I'm struggling with getting the allegro molto in the cadenza up to speed.  Do you have any tips?  Praying Doesn't seem to be cutting it anymore ...
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #23 on: November 07, 2017, 02:21:52 AM
Quote from: isyriel on November 07, 2017, 01:23:08 AM
I'm struggling with getting the allegro molto in the cadenza up to speed.  Do you have any tips?  Praying Doesn't seem to be cutting it anymore ...

Hands separate play every chord twice and play with double dotted rhythms it comes with time

And even once you get it up to speed it's still really hard to play it accurately
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #24 on: November 26, 2017, 06:26:49 AM
STARTED THE LAST MOVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I got like 28 pages left  :'(

Ima try and finish learning everything by the new year
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Offline steinway43

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #25 on: November 27, 2017, 08:00:57 AM
Quote from: isyriel on August 19, 2017, 10:06:53 PM
sorry bout the wide shot, i think you can zoom in tho lol.

Where did you get a spiral bound copy? Or did you print that and create it yourself at Kinko's?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #26 on: December 01, 2017, 05:39:19 PM
So my friend is a violinist in my local orchestra and hit up the conductor and was like 'yo my mans out here tryna play with you guys wanna hook him up?

And the conductor was like 'yooo I remember him you told me about him playing the Rach 2 a few years ago no?  Yeah we'd be hella interested in 2'

And he was like 'well he's doing 3 now'

And the other guy was like '3, 2, same thing I lowkey want him to play 2 but just send us a recording and we'll hook up the homie.


so I gotta find an accompanist and make a recording soon.  First movement is feeling REALLY comfortable now
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Offline tenk

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #27 on: December 01, 2017, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: tenk on November 03, 2017, 09:04:44 PM
When will get an Audition Room post with your progress?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #28 on: December 01, 2017, 11:27:02 PM
Quote from: tenk on December 01, 2017, 10:24:42 PM


Whenever I can find an accompanist lol
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Offline tenk

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Re: Rach 3 Journey
Reply #29 on: December 02, 2017, 12:45:54 AM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on December 01, 2017, 11:27:02 PM
Whenever I can find an accompanist lol

You don't need one, just record without. Use phone or something. As I said, the best time to start getting feedback is long before you consider yourself "done".
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Offline 88kcookiezi

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #30 on: December 06, 2017, 04:37:55 AM
i don't know if muse score will read midi files, but ...
https://www.kunstderfuge.com/rachmaninov.htm

it has a whole bunch of midi files for all sorts of composers, there is rach 3 in there.  It's a bit janky but its not too bad.

Sibelius reads them relativity well though.   
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #31 on: December 06, 2017, 05:48:33 AM
Quote from: 88kcookiezi on December 06, 2017, 04:37:55 AM
i don't know if muse score will read midi files, but ...
https://www.kunstderfuge.com/rachmaninov.htm

it has a whole bunch of midi files for all sorts of composers, there is rach 3 in there.  It's a bit janky but its not too bad.

Sibelius reads them relativity well though.  

my muse score doesnt :(






and alright FINE I'll upload a recording just give me till thursday or this wekend
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Offline 88kcookiezi

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #32 on: December 06, 2017, 07:15:16 AM
lul i did a bit more digging and found this
https://musescore.com/hmscomp/scores/1844011
there might be some errors here and there though according to the comments
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Offline xdjuicebox

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #33 on: December 06, 2017, 09:24:38 AM
So if you /really/ want, I can input the orchestral part into Sibelius, and give you a pretty realistic orchestra sound...I'll do the first few bars right now and see what you think. I'm planning on writing a concerto myself anyway, so this'll be a good study on how Rachmaninoff uses the orchestra to accompany the piano...
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Offline xdjuicebox

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #34 on: December 06, 2017, 10:43:12 AM
Okay, here's the beginning until the Piu mosso section, orchestra only. Have fun!

I might fix some balance issues later, but here's a decent version for now
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #35 on: December 12, 2017, 04:48:40 AM
I talked to the president of the orchestra.

He said he was totally down and he'll try to hook me up next season.  Especially cause I'm a local and I'm young blah blah blah

He hasn't listened to the recording yet so there is still the possibility of it not going through.

BUT I have support from one of the violinists and the principle violist and they both put in a word for me.
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Offline visitor

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #36 on: December 12, 2017, 01:30:44 PM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on December 12, 2017, 04:48:40 AM
I talked to the president of the orchestra.

He said he was totally down and he'll try to hook me up next season.  Especially cause I'm a local and I'm young blah blah blah

He hasn't listened to the recording yet so there is still the possibility of it not going through.

BUT I have support from one of the violinists and the principle violist and they both put in a word for me.
you are learning valuable and a real often not thought about skill, the networking and schmoozing that goes along with lining up many opportunities, I had to take similar initiative for my first concerto w a conductor and ensemble, you gotta work on those people skills.
network always, always network, get a reputation for yourself and an easy and great to work with guy with solid playing chops, it will pay dividends for you later on
befriend the grud conductor students now in school, you never know when one of them will  lead a group you want to/need to play with later
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #37 on: December 18, 2017, 10:04:54 PM
Gonna try and get the first and last section of the last movement done by the end of the week and finish the rest by the new year. 

Still haven't heard back from the orchestra guy idk if I should be worried or not
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #38 on: December 23, 2017, 02:39:03 AM
THE ORCHESTRA PRESIDENT DIRECTOR GUY RESPONDED HE SAID IT SOUNDS GOOD AND NOW HE WANTS ME TO SEND A RESUME!!!!!!
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Offline mjames

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #39 on: December 23, 2017, 03:25:11 AM
started from the bottom, now we here.


Nah man seriously I'm happy for you, wish you all the luck with the orchestra!
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Offline visitor

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #40 on: December 23, 2017, 04:03:52 AM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on December 23, 2017, 02:39:03 AM
THE ORCHESTRA PRESIDENT DIRECTOR GUY RESPONDED HE SAID IT SOUNDS GOOD AND NOW HE WANTS ME TO SEND A RESUME!!!!!!
cannot say I'm surprised, funny how thst works huh?
The harder you work,  the longer you bust it, the "luckier"  you get  ;)
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #41 on: December 23, 2017, 05:47:42 AM
It's not official but this is what he said

"Thanks John.  It sounds vey nice.  We will discuss.  Please send a resume"

So it sounds pretty promising it means my playing doesn't suck lol
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #42 on: January 02, 2018, 11:15:31 PM
Hey so it's been almost 10 days since I sent the resume and so far no response should I email him again?
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Offline dogperson

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 12:08:19 AM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on January 02, 2018, 11:15:31 PM
Hey so it's been almost 10 days since I sent the resume and so far no response should I email him again?

 I would suggest waiting till around the 10th, as  the last 10 days you’ve seen Christmas and New Year’s where very little work gets done.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #44 on: January 11, 2018, 02:47:21 AM
Recap of last movement done!

Exposition is already learned but not memorized

I have to learn the notes for the middle section then I'm done done
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #45 on: February 03, 2018, 06:23:39 AM
I DID IT!!!!!

Kind of. 

I played through the whole thing from the beginning but I totally forgot quite a bit of the first movement and I'm starting to forget the second movement cause the third movement is taking up so much of my time.  Which still sucks right now cause it's the hardest movement and I'm really on the struggle bus with the Eb major section.

BUT...

I can play it all the way through now!
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Offline beethovenfan01

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #46 on: February 03, 2018, 05:25:13 PM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on February 03, 2018, 06:23:39 AM
I DID IT!!!!!

Kind of. 

I played through the whole thing from the beginning but I totally forgot quite a bit of the first movement and I'm starting to forget the second movement cause the third movement is taking up so much of my time.  Which still sucks right now cause it's the hardest movement and I'm really on the struggle bus with the Eb major section.

BUT...

I can play it all the way through now!

That's great! Are you going to perform it? At least set up a house recital and play it with piano accompaniment, if nothing else ...
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #47 on: February 03, 2018, 07:31:49 PM
Every summer I do a concert in Rhode Island so ima play it there.

I might also do it for a recital at the end of the year with someone else in my studio playing the rach 2 but idk
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Offline beethovenfan01

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #48 on: February 03, 2018, 08:03:42 PM
Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on February 03, 2018, 07:31:49 PM
Every summer I do a concert in Rhode Island so ima play it there.

I might also do it for a recital at the end of the year with someone else in my studio playing the rach 2 but idk

Nice! Out of curiosity, what other concertos have you learned and performed? Is this your first one?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Rach 3
Reply #49 on: February 03, 2018, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: beethovenfan01 on February 03, 2018, 08:03:42 PM
Nice! Out of curiosity, what other concertos have you learned and performed? Is this your first one?

Just the rach 2 a couple years ago.  I tried so hard to play that one with orchestra but I'm giving up with that one for now.

There was another piece by a Black American composer I played last quarter that was literally for orchestra and jazz piano so idk if that really counts.  It had two cadenzas and was only 8-9 minutes long.
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Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.
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