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Grand Style Liszt with Bererzovsky

This CD, a collection of live recordings taken from performances at the Royal Festival Hall and the Festival de la Grange de Meslay, provides yet another example of Boris Berezovsky’s stunning virtuosity and musicality. Read more >>

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Author Topic: Practicing  (Read 1798 times)
lisztisforkids
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« on: February 14, 2006, 12:45:44 AM »

Whats the right amount to practice? about how much should we practice to get the most out of the practicing session but not over do it? Somebody here says they practice 12 hours a day. I think thats to much, but its a matter of opinion I guess.

My teacher said we should practice about 5 to 6 hours a day, after that we cant really get anything out of it.

Whats most efficient?
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bernhard
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2006, 12:54:25 AM »

Have a look here Tongue:

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1825.msg13858.html#msg13858
(Accommodating practice times – 10 minute sessions – some mention on mental practice)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1844.msg13949.html#msg13949
(Overpractising – stopping at the last perfect rendition).

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2265.msg20306.html#msg20306
(How much practice a day? – two zen stories).


http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2485.msg21499.html#msg21499
(How to keep a piece in the repertory – learn/forget/relearn)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2526.msg21829.html#msg21829
(how to organise piano practise in short/medium/long term – Principle of memory retention – Principle of 15 minute sessions – stopping when you achieve your goals. Teachers should teach how to learn)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2599.msg22431.html#msg22431
(How long does it all take? – self-taught students - the cake analogy - criticism of ABRSM for expecting people to reach grade 8 in 10 years - learning is not gradual  comparison with reading - different ways of learning - how to learn to drive a car -   the dispersive method of teaching - 15 list to “disperse” learning).

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3039.msg26525.html#msg26525
(how big are your hands, and does it matter?  7 x 20 minutes – exercise/activities to strengthen the playing apparatus – ways to deal with wide chords – the myth that Richter was self-taught – 3 stages of learning – Example: Chopin militaire Polonaise - scientific principles for testing practice methods – Example: Prelude in F#m from WTC1 – when to join hands and why HS – practice is improvement – the principle of “easy” – Example: Chopin’s ballade no. 4 – repeated groups)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3625.msg32673.html#msg32673
(PPI –  comparison with body building – brief mention of movement and intellectual centre – comparison with babies walking and coma patients- muscle tension and nerve inhibition – how to investigate and test practice ideas – How to teach by using progressively difficult repertory)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4105.msg37603.html#msg37603
(Does age and practice time matter? –  Summaries of the 7 x 20 approach – averages and standard deviations are given for the several numbers – need for a practice diary – how to deal with mastering something and forgetting it next day – what exactly is mastery – the 3 stages of mastery)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4123.msg37829.html#msg37829
(How to investigate the best movement pattern: Example Scarlatti sonata K70 – How to work out the best fingering. Example: CPE Bach Allegro in A – Slow x slow motion practice – HS x HT – practising for only 5 – 10 minutes)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4168.msg38569.html#msg38569
(Keeping pieces polished – learn/forget/relearn)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4244.msg39203.html#msg39203
(How long to practice – having an aim, achieving it and moving on – How to define aim)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4322.msg40260.html#msg40260
(mental practice)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4429.msg41217.html#msg41217
(differences between practice and performance)

http://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php?topic=5995.msg58928#msg58928
(when to work on expression - change focus every 2 minutes – comparison with plate spinning)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4988.msg47452.html#msg47452
(Summary of links to optimise practising and planning)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5453.msg53807.html#msg53807
(3 most important practice tricks)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5555.msg53811.html#msg53811
(how long do you practice? It depends on what is meant by practice)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5701.msg55639.html#msg55639
(3 principles of super efficient/fast learning)

http://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7810.msg80415.html#msg80415
(How to organise the breaking down of a piece over several days. Examples: CPE Bach Fantasia, Blow Sarabande, Chopin Cantabile; Chopin Scherzo no. 2)

http://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7872.msg79188.html#msg79188
(How to plan your work for the next five years)

http://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7664.msg77057.html#msg77057
(How to break a piece in sessions – Example: Invention no. 1).


http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3561.msg31700.html#msg31700
(Questions about Bernhard’s method – Bernhard’s answers – mostly about the 7 X 20 principle, how do you know when you mastered a section, when to use the methods, and when they are not necessary – investigating the reasons for difficult)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4689.msg44184.html#msg44184
(Bernhard answers questions and elucidates further about: 20 minutes – practice starts when you get it right – definition of mastery : learned – mastered – omniscience – Aim for easy – final speed in practice must be faster than performance speed – Example: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2 – outline – repeated note groups – HS x HT)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4710.msg44538.html#msg44538
(Bernhard explains once more about 7 x 20 minutes – Progress is the ultimate decider – How to break a piece in practice sessions – Example: Satie gymnopedie – importance of planning – aim at 100 pieces per year – Example: Bach Cm WTC 2 -)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4750.msg45125.html#msg45125
(more details: learned – mastered –omniscience – why repertory must be paramount – how to work on 20 pieces per month – a case for easy repertory – importance of discipline and of having a plan – analogy of mastering a piece and making wine – musicality is ultimately good taste – Example: Beethoven op. 49 no. 2- A list of progressive repertory to lead to Rach prelude op. 32 no. 5 – mastery is when it is easy)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4797.msg45744.html#msg45744
(No skipped steps – Bernhard enlightens further and tells the usual places where students go wrong – Ht x HS)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4858.msg46087.html#msg46087
(Paul’s report on B’s method. Feedback from Bernhard including: HS x HT – Example: Lecuona’s malaguena – 7x20 – need to adjust and adapt – repeated note-groups – importance of HS – hand memory – 7 items only in consciousness – playing in automatic pilot - )

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4901.msg47078.html#msg47078
(collection of links on everything)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5177.msg49229.html#msg49229
(more on 7x20 – what it means to master a passage)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5298.msg50376.html#msg50376
(alternative to the chord trick – Rhythm variations  - repeated note-groups – starting with the difficult bars – how to break down a piece in sessions – ways to tackle speed that do not involve the chord trick)

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5767.msg56133.html#msg56133
(huge collection of links)




Best wishes,
Bernhard.
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lisztisforkids
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2006, 12:56:33 AM »

Wow Bernhard! Thanks!
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bernhard
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2006, 01:05:52 AM »

You are welcome.

The bottom line is: You only need to practise 20 - 30 minutes a day (usually less than that). However this will limit your repertory acquisition. People who practise 12 hours a day are either wasting time (by unnecessarily pratising the same stuff over and over again), or are acquiring huge amounts of repertory by working on 48 pieces a day (15 minutes each), which is the right thing to do.

Best wishes,
Bernhard. 
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The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
JCarey
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2006, 01:38:50 AM »

Whats the right amount to practice? about how much should we practice to get the most out of the practicing session but not over do it? Somebody here says they practice 12 hours a day. I think thats to much, but its a matter of opinion I guess.

My teacher said we should practice about 5 to 6 hours a day, after that we cant really get anything out of it.

Whats most efficient?

I don't see anything wrong with practicing for great periods of time, but I think it is necessary to take breaks in between practice sessions. I would divide your practice sessions into 30 minute or hour long periods. I wouldn't recommend practicing for more than 5 hours a day, like your teacher said. There used to be a time when I would practice about 7 hours a day, but I found that I would eventually stop comprehending what I was practicing after 5 hours. So, if you are going to practice for, say, 5 hours a day, I would recommend stopping after each hour and taking a 30 minute break. This will give both your hands and your mind some time to recover, especially if you're playing a particularly challenging piece.

But make sure to make all the time you spend practicing count. You can waste a lot of time practicing if you aren't doing it under the right conditions. For instance, ideally, one shouldn't practice when they are hungry or tired. Try to get plenty of sleep each night and eat before practicing - it will help you retain more from your practice.

- John

P.S. welcome back, Bernhard!
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