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Piano Board => Student's Corner => Music Theory => Topic started by: evitaevita on October 09, 2012, 06:31:05 PM

Title: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: evitaevita on October 09, 2012, 06:31:05 PM
I'm currently working on the harmonic analysis of Chopin Etude Op.10 No.1.
What do you think about bars 27-31?
What are the chords there?
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: perfect_pitch on October 10, 2012, 12:10:14 AM
Bar 27: G 7 sus4
Bar 28: G7
Bar 29: C7
Bar 30: C min dom 7
Bar 31: F7
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: ajspiano on October 10, 2012, 10:47:28 PM
Bar 30: C min dom 7

this is probably a little confusing..

Firstly, do you mean "dom" as in dominant or is it a typo of dim for diminished..?  either way I'm confused.

If C is the root, I read it as Cm7 b5, or C half diminished.

If however, the Gb is the root - then it would be Gb6 #4

....Either way, I perceive it as a kind of altered tri-tone substitution on the preceding C7 chord, as a chromatic passing chord to the F7, just as the next one is a chromatic pass to the Bb..   

overall they form the logical progression in 4ths -  G7, C7, F7, Bb7..

Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: perfect_pitch on October 11, 2012, 02:21:58 PM
If C is the root, I read it as Cm7 b5, or C half diminished.

Yeah... I only spent about 7 seconds looking at it, and thought that the other term for a half-diminished dom 7th was a C min dom 7... Obviously I was wrong.

Is there technically another name for a half-diminished dominant 7th?
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: nyiregyhazi on October 11, 2012, 07:20:32 PM
Yeah... I only spent about 7 seconds looking at it, and thought that the other term for a half-diminished dom 7th was a C min dom 7... Obviously I was wrong.

Is there technically another name for a half-diminished dominant 7th?

The tristan chord. Or a minor chord with a major 6th.
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: ajspiano on October 11, 2012, 08:55:54 PM
The tristan chord. Or a minor chord with a major 6th.

The notes in question, as in the étude and half dim chords are C Eb Gb Bb

Where is the major 6th?
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: nyiregyhazi on October 11, 2012, 11:27:07 PM
The notes in question, as in the étude and half dim chords are C Eb Gb Bb

Where is the major 6th?

For that one it could also be analysed as e flat minor, with the c being the added major sixth.
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: ajspiano on October 11, 2012, 11:34:37 PM
For that one it could also be analysed as e flat minor, with the c being the added major sixth.

Oh right, different root. Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: schartmanovich on November 23, 2012, 03:01:41 AM
Why do you care about chord qualities without analyzing their function? Is the chord a tonic, predominant, or dominant in relation to the governing tonality, and is it part of a longer prolongational, sequential, or cadential progression? Those are the important questions to answer.
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: dcstudio on December 06, 2012, 01:30:06 PM




....Either way, I perceive it as a kind of altered tri-tone substitution on the preceding C7 chord, as a chromatic passing chord to the F7, just as the next one is a chromatic pass to the Bb..   

overall they form the logical progression in 4ths -  G7, C7, F7, Bb7..



did they start teaching tri-tone sub in classical theory?  lol  that's cool.  or have you just taken jazz theory as well?  I took both at the same time.  Amazing how much easier it is ..for me, anyway ...to think as the jazzers do.  Somehow I think Chopin would've liked it, too.

I agree--passing chord--tri-tone sub--Neopolitan 6...whatever.
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: ajspiano on December 06, 2012, 10:57:33 PM
did they start teaching tri-tone sub in classical theory?  lol  that's cool.  or have you just taken jazz theory as well?

I've done both. I agree its easier to think in jazz. Significantly easier...  I actually found classical theory to be a monumental waste of time, then jazz theory made music theory worth while. That's probably a reflection of the teaching/learning/maturity context though, not the material.
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: dcstudio on December 07, 2012, 12:24:13 AM
I've done both. I agree its easier to think in jazz. Significantly easier...  I actually found classical theory to be a monumental waste of time, then jazz theory made music theory worth while. That's probably a reflection of the teaching/learning/maturity context though, not the material.

I just hated listening to the stuffy theory majors debating form and analysis--lol.   Jazz theory is just far more applicable...or usable I should say...regardless of the genre. 
Title: Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Post by: seyles on December 08, 2012, 07:10:24 AM
Bar 27 -  G7 added 4th
Bar 28 - G7
Bar 29 - C7
Bar 30 - Eb minor, first inversion, with added 6th
Bar 31 - Diminished 7th chord resolving to following chord Ab minor (first inversion) in bar 32

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