Piano Forum
Piano Board => Student's Corner => Topic started by: yadeehoo on October 11, 2015, 04:47:50 PM
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Yes In my second piano year I started to tackle some of the Chopin etudes, and even tho it seemed ludicrous at first, it's starting to pay off big time! Op 10 no1 & 12 are now my two left and right hand warm up exercises.
I just wanted to share that with you guys
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Video or it didn´t happen 8)
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Here is the OP's link to Op 10 no 12 just a fragment
&feature=youtu.be
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Indeed, that was a couple month back.
I have to upload a new video to show the progress. Learned heaps of new stuff, cause I had to, especially arm movement. Those difficult pieces really face you with ultimate challenges, that's how you eventually learn something
Might take me a while before I can play the whole thing. But as I said, it's practice and it's good !
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By the way, I finished memorizing Op 10 no1 yesterday ;D So I can just practice both pieces endlessly without looking at the sheets now
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Now I have the gap between 2nd and 3rd finger, and between 4th and 5th. It might be because of Etude Op10 No1, cause I don't have it on the left hand
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You should post both videos of these etudes, complete, if you want help. Your posts about your progress are confusing.
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I will uplaod new videos, maybe today.
The point i was trying to make is, instead of waiting to have the necessary technique to play these etudes, I took the opposite approach of gaining technique BY practicing these etudes. Even if it's still hard, my hands learned a lot from it.
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I will uplaod new videos, maybe today.
The point i was trying to make is, instead of waiting to have the necessary technique to play these etudes, I took the opposite approach of gaining technique BY practicing these etudes. Even if it's still hard, my hands learned a lot from it.
This can be deceiving. I don't know if you have a teacher (I suspect not), but without one, you won't know/realize when you are making something needlessly more difficult for yourself, or worse potentially doing something that will hurt you.
For instance in your 10 2 video, you are doing some very strange and awkward movements with your wrist where it looks like you're turning it almost 45 degrees in. This will be impossible to do at concert tempo.
I haven't seen or heard you play 10 1, but even Chopin himself stated, "You shall benefit from this Etude. If you learn it according to my instructions it will expand your hand and enable you to perform arpeggios like strokes of the [violin] bow. Unfortunately, instead of teaching, it frequently un-teaches everything."
None of this is to say that you shouldn't spend some time on these pieces, but trying to unlearn mistakes or errors in your playing will be astronomically more difficult the more you drill them in this way.
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when you first start out pretty much anything will cause an 'improvement' doesn't mean it's wise or the best way to proceed.
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I don't believe in bad habits, just things you didn't learn yet. Making these wrist mistakes in the video, helped me understand what I was doing wrong, and since I've redefined the whole body approach. I would have never learned it if i was never faced to deep challenges.
I believe there's a virtue in making your own mistakes instead of getting a teacher telling you what to do from the start, blocking you the experience of learning from your own mistakes.
Btw, I don't know any bad habit anyone can take from learning Op10 No1 ? It stretches your fingers, that's what is does...
I have the gap now between my right fingers, which i didn't have before I practiced this piece.
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I had a golf teacher teaching me the perfect swing before I could even shoot my first balls. It resulted in me over-thinking it and I just quit before I even knew what it was to shoot a ball.
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I don't believe in bad habits, just things you didn't learn yet. Making these wrist mistakes in the video, helped me understand what I was doing wrong, and since I've redefined the whole body approach. I would have never learned it if i was never faced to deep challenges.
I believe there's a virtue in making your own mistakes instead of getting a teacher telling you what to do from the start, blocking you the experience of learning from your own mistakes.
Btw, I don't know any bad habit anyone can take from learning Op10 No1 ? It stretches your fingers, that's what is does...
I have the gap now between my right fingers, which i didn't have before I practiced this piece.
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I had a golf teacher teaching me the perfect swing before I could even shoot my first balls. It resulted in me over-thinking it and I just quit before I even knew what it was to shoot a ball.
With regards to your first two contentions, theoretically yes you can will yourself to power through problems you're finding in your own playing, but consider this: how long were you playing 10 12 with that strange exaggerated wrist motion? A teacher would've spotted it immediately, put you on the right path, and saved you who-knows-how-much time. All the masters had teachers at one point. It's not a bad thing to have one, but can be very difficult to find a GOOD one.
One of the worst habits one can get into with 10 1 is playing it with tension, incorrect "flow" in the wrist, trying to force the notes...there are countless errors one can make that become all the more difficult to unlearn once you've been doing it long enough.
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Agree with you on so many levels.
What's happening with me i figured, is when a hindrance becomes too big, I eventually need to overcome it. Problem didn't start with Op10 No12, it was with moonlight sonata mvt3. I couldn't hit the notes accurately with thumb on the final. After a day of searching in the forums, YT and all, I realized I had a wrong arm approach, and tension.
I seriously have to re-upload a video to show the progress. I know I won't play the pieces I'm learning in a performance this year or the next, but I'm just excited by challenges and beautiful pieces
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I don't believe in bad habits, just things you didn't learn yet.
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Btw, I don't know any bad habit anyone can take from learning Op10 No1 ? It stretches your fingers, that's what is does...
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These two lines alone tell me that you should get yourself a better teacher. As your own teacher you have already decided your opinion on this matter without actually taken the learning path to acceptable results or even done much research it seems. A good teacher will have taken and seen this path so many times they can apply it to their teaching.
Yes, sometimes one can make mistakes first to learn. But ignorance can take away the benefits of that approach. Because you might accidently come up with a better solution but don't necessarily understand what exactly it was essential in that change and won't be able to apply that to other things. And in many cases you won't come up with a good solution, just countless of ways to compensate your lack of ability.
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These two lines alone tell me that you should get yourself a better teacher. As your own teacher you have already decided your opinion on this matter without actually taken the learning path to acceptable results or even done much research it seems. A good teacher will have taken and seen this path so many times they can apply it to their teaching.
Yes, sometimes one can make mistakes first to learn. But ignorance can take away the benefits of that approach. Because you might accidently come up with a better solution but don't necessarily understand what exactly it was essential in that change and won't be able to apply that to other things. And in many cases you won't come up with a good solution, just countless of ways to compensate your lack of ability.
That was very inspiring and uplifting. Getting a teacher is a luxury not everyone can afford
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That was very inspiring and uplifting. Getting a teacher is a luxury not everyone can afford
You seem to be very motivated to learn complicated classical music, so Outo was offering you sound advise so that you progress faster, build the technical skills you need with the right technique. No one can answer your economic question but you-- but see what discretionary spending you can eliminate to make it happen.. and we all have some of that. Eliminate eating out, Starbucks, sodas, etc.
No matter how ambitious and dedicated you are, you need someone trained to see and hear you... the fact that you have advanced goals makes this even more important. You may not believe in bad habits, but they are indeed real, and take a long time to eliminate. Think about when you learn a measure with a wrong note and how hard it is to re-learn correctly. This is compounded with technique.
If I have a problem with a passage, my teacher will approach it from multiple directions until we find a way that works for me. You don't get that adaption from the internet.
Think about it.
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You seem to be very motivated to learn complicated classical music, so Outo was offering you sound advise so that you progress faster, build the technical skills you need with the right technique. No one can answer your economic question but you-- but see what discretionary spending you can eliminate to make it happen.. and we all have some of that. Eliminate eating out, Starbucks, sodas, etc.
No matter how ambitious and dedicated you are, you need someone trained to see and hear you... the fact that you have advanced goals makes this even more important. You may not believe in bad habits, but they are indeed real, and take a long time to eliminate. Think about when you learn a measure with a wrong note and how hard it is to re-learn correctly. This is compounded with technique.
If I have a problem with a passage, my teacher will approach it from multiple directions until we find a way that works for me. You don't get that adaption from the internet.
Think about it.
Thx to ppl in this forum, despite not having a real piano teacher, I learn a lot from the comments, and I can still upload a video so someone here can spot the flaws.
I don't have the problem of having to relearn wrong notes, I really don't. I just focus on what the new pattern should be, practice that, and so far it has done the trick.
Someone here yet have do define what "bad habit" is and how detrimental it could be
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...Getting a teacher is a luxury not everyone can afford
playing the piano is in itself not a necessity, so your premise is flawed. you have chosed to undertake learning the piano, a luxury in and of itself. having access to sound instruction from a good instructor is necessary to make the progress you seem to be after if your aim is to play difficult literature well and without increased chances of injury.
having a good teacher is necessity given your goal/aspiration of approaching difficult standard lit works as your attempt to prematurely learn the Chopin etude illustrated.
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Why is it that everybody thinks it's ludicrous to learn piano on your own? Am I the only person doing that in the world?
I can't help but liking pieces that happen to be difficult
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Why is it that everybody thinks it's ludicrous to learn piano on your own? Am I the only person doing that in the world?
I can't help but liking pieces that happen to be difficult
didn't take issue with you attempt at trying to learn without proper instruction. Just your statements about access to instruction being a luxury, and your initial post about the early attempt at the etude being beneficial w/ no deleterious consequences (now or later)
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didn't take issue with you attempt at trying to learn without proper instruction. Just your statements about access to instruction being a luxury, and your initial post about the early attempt at the etude being beneficial w/ no deleterious consequences (now or later)
I have no idea what you're trying to say
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It is not ludicrous to learn piano on your own-- but it is ludicrous to expect to learn on your own the level of music you want to play at the rate you want to learn it. You have received the same advice 'get a teacher' from many. Pollini won the international Chopin competition at the age of 16 but then delayed a record contract to study more. Maybe that should give you pause for thought.
Bad habits I had that I was not aware of:
_Tension in my right shoulder-- I didn't feel it!
- Good lateral wrist rotation but front/back wrist movement needed work
_Inefficient fingering
_tendency to play left hand chords micro-second off from right
_Too heavy use of pedal
Some bad habits in technique can cause injury.
It is not just the bad habit prevention: you have already been told you will save time and progress faster. Problem solving is so much easier-- my teacher has the experience and education to help me work through a passage multiple ways that I could not do on my own. Really, Learning to play well the more difficult music that I love is exactly the reason I continue lessons, and have no plans to stop.
Think about it-- but you seem so resistant and that is a shame.
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Actually, I've already tried few teachers, but they didn't feel like teaching me anything, and finding the RIGHT teacher would be amazing I guess, but I live in a small town, so.
Sure if Yuja Wang wants to give me some lessons, I'm up for it. But the teachers I can find in my area make you learn what they think you should learn, so, it's not appropriate for me...
I appreciate every one of you here talking the time to give me useful info, cause that's all I have access to right now. And believe it or not, all the critics here have already helped me a lot.
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All piano students, want to learn difficult pieces, that usually happen to be the nicest.
What would you think of a first year student that wants to play trascendental studies by Liszt?
I think is nonsense, unless you are a genious, maybe you could learn the notes, but that doesnt mean you play the piece, I can guarantee that. You should see piano learning as a long walk, each step takes you further, but if you suddenly jump, you will miss a lot of things you need to play well. Playing piano is not about playing notes, is much more complicated than that. The huge effort you are doing leaning that piece on your own, is not woth at all. Maybe it gives you the illusion of being a pianist, but is just an illusion. I agree with everybody, try to get a teacher, if is only once a month, even that will help you more than what you are doing now. It's up to you, of course, but learning piano is also about patience, among other things
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No idea why some ppl keep commenting in complete oblivion of what I previously wrote
It's not that I don't want a teacher, I just don't have access to one.
And for the millionth time. I'm not gonna learn a piece I don't feel a strong connection to just cause it's easy. Whatever the piece, slow practice is a tool accessible to all of us, regardless of our piano experience.
But if ppl mistake my enthusiasm for arrogance, I don't know what to say...
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It's not that I don't want a teacher, I just don't have access to one.
In that case you should minimize the damage and stop practicing the Chopin etudes. You can teach yourself to read and play less technically virtuous music with much better results.
I am not totally against learning on your own, but the goals should somewhat match the investment...
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In that case you should minimize the damage and stop practicing the Chopin etudes. You can teach yourself to read and play less technically virtuous music with much better results.
I am not totally against learning on your own, but the goals should somewhat match the investment...
I thought : what could be best than Chopin etudes to learn technique? It's basically what he wrote them for, no?
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I used to be like you.
But a lot of time you'll have to learn pieces you don't wanna Learn. And the teachers don't pick easy pieces for you just for the sake of them being easy. There's something to gain from every piece. You won't improve THAT much by only playing really hard stuff. You need to have variety.
Right now I bet playing some Bach would be WAY more beneficial to you than playing Chopin etudes. You may find him harder than Chopin for different reasons, not just blasting your hands all over the piano. I personally hate Bach, but they make me play a Bach p&f every jury.
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I thought : what could be best than Chopin etudes to learn technique? It's basically what he wrote them for, no?
Chopin etudes don't cover all aspects of technique.
And it's better to learn a different piece with a lighter technique load and then do another Chopin étude. nobody starts off with Chopin etudes just to learn technique.
And since you're only two years in it's best to have someone watch over you to make sure that you're not doing something detrimental to yourself when playing these Chopin etudes. It would be different if you've been playing for like 20 years and already went through all the motions but you're still fresh.
I'm not saying that you're guaranteed to get injured, but your likelihood of getting injured is higher if you don't have a teacher. You don't need the BEST teacher but a regular dude will be fine.
And I'm not against you learning hard stuff. I think that if you like it, you should learn it, but just do it with proper guidance.
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I thought : what could be best than Chopin etudes to learn technique? It's basically what he wrote them for, no?
Not really. Not for learning basic technique. He wrote them for advanced pianists. He didn't let his pupils play them.
What would be better for self teaching? Less virtuoso pieces from composers like Bach, Scarlatti, Clementi, Czerny, Mozart (I cannot believe I am saying this...). Music that you can play well without superhuman skills.
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I dont' think you are arrogant, is not that. I used to be a self student myself, so I know what I'm talking about. Anyway, it's your choice, if you are happy with that, go for it. I just wanted to tell you that there are better ways of learning. I would die for playing Chopin etudes, I'm in my fifth year, but I dont' think I'm ready for them at all. I know it can be very frustrating, trying to learn a piece much harder of one's level, at least for me. Dont' missunderstimate "easy" piano pieces, if you want to play them properly, there's no such a thing.
Sorry if my words hurt you, it was not my intention
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There's one easy piece that I learned and I like, it's the Moonlight sonata. My second piece was Liebestraum. I also compose, so, I spend some time on that. Then I started to tackle Chopin and Horowitz, right away, as I didn't think of any other composer I would want to learn a piece form.
Could my piano injuries be compared to a rugby tackle, or something like that? Cause I've been through stuff, I have a pretty good tolerance to pain.
Sometimes my forearms hurt, and I feel fatigue, but other than that, I think I will be able to survive piano practice, as unforgiving as you guys seem to all agree on that it is.
I wanted to shoot an update video today, but I couldn't get a good lighting, the weather was all gloomy. As soon as I can I'll post a new video
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There's one easy piece that I learned and I like, it's the Moonlight sonata. My second piece was Liebestraum.
Neither of them are easy pieces. If you feel that way you, are probably not aware of all the things involved. Without a teacher it's very easy to think learning to play the piano is about learning to play correct notes in correct time. But that's only the beginning... Some pieces you can even make sound pretty decent (to non pianists at least) after hearing enough recordings and imitating what you hear. But it's only after taking the learning path from simpler music to more complicated one, that you can really hear what you are doing and are able to bring out all the levels of the composition (and even then you will usually feel inadequate).
Then I started to tackle Chopin and Horowitz, right away, as I didn't think of any other composer I would want to learn a piece form.
Well, that could be a problem...
But I am quite confident that it's only because you do not know much about classical piano music. If you like those pieces I am pretty certain you would like countless other pieces if you just knew them :)
You may not be aware of this:
Horowitz started piano lessons at the age of 6. He studied 9 years before entering the concervatory in Russia. He studied another 8 years before starting his concert career. And the studies in a Russian concervatory were rigorous. He was considered exceptionally talented as well. He composed the Carmen variations in the beginning of his concert career to show off his skills, then already an established virtuoso. Do you see how ridiculous it seems that you think you would be able to pull them off after a couple of years of self studying the piano?
Similarly Chopin wrote the etudes to show off his then revolutionary piano technique that he developed after studying the piano ever since a small child. Pianists who have studied the piano formally for 15 years don't usually find them easy to learn. Even most average piano teachers won't be able to play them well. They require solid piano technique developed over time AND special skills that are best learned from a highly qualified teacher.
Could my piano injuries be compared to a rugby tackle, or something like that? Cause I've been through stuff, I have a pretty good tolerance to pain.
Piano injuries are usually from over straining and forcing things instead of knowing how to do them "easily", not accidents like you'd have in sports. The worst kind IMO are nerve injuries. They often develope over some time and you don't necessary feel pain at all while playing. After the first signs appear (numbness or unusual feelings in fingers) and you still continue they can get worse pretty quickly. But they heal very slowly and you may find yourself unable to play at all for weeks or even months.
Habits like twisting or straining the wrists, overusing the fingers, pressing to the keybed and straining for large streches can cause these. Also bad posture can cause nerve irritation in the neck, shoulder or elbow.
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That's useful info here. I defo have to upload videos
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Could my piano injuries be compared to a rugby tackle, or something like that? Cause I've been through stuff, I have a pretty good tolerance to pain.
Sometimes my forearms hurt, and I feel fatigue, but other than that, I think I will be able to survive piano practice, as unforgiving as you guys seem to all agree on that it is.
You get tackled and jam or break a fineger. If it's not THAT bad it'll heal and you'll be almost back to normal.
But getting carpal tunnel and tendonitis will REALLY *** you up bad. And those don't go away.
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I do not think you can progress best and fastest that way, but it is up to you and if you have a lot of fun with that - than it is your choice to spend your time on the piano as you wish. If you ask me what I think about it - and since you started this post you are obviously curious what people think...
It seems to me that you are, to use the most resembling metaphor, trying to learn a few sentences in Chinese by heart, not learning the grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation.
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I do not think you can progress best and fastest that way, but it is up to you and if you have a lot of fun with that - than it is your choice to spend your time on the piano as you wish. If you ask me what I think about it - and since you started this post you are obviously curious what people think...
It seems to me that you are, to use the most resembling metaphor, trying to learn a few sentences in Chinese by heart, not learning the grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation.
Quite luminous metaphor indeed. I start with a vision of what the piece should sound like, and focus on the sonic delivery, regardless sometimes of the physical reality.
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I can play the whole etude half tempo on metronome without missing a single beat
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I can play the whole etude half tempo on metronome without missing a single beat
This is all well and good, but if you are asking for help (which I presume you are given that you made this thread :)) we really need to see what you're doing at the keys before anyone can offer useful advice.
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I can play the whole etude half tempo on metronome without missing a single beat
Wow, you work hard! :) It is just that you could be working so much more efficiently... if you got a teacher and worked with material that is really meant to teach you basic skills. First things first - it makes sense.
I understand you perfectly because I did similar thing in the past. I mean, I went to music school but I hated the pieces that my teacher assigned me and would always devote more time to Chopin's pieces, etudes, polonaises, mazurkas. My teacher was mad but I was happy and proud that I was playing what I loved. But it did cause tension and I was more like "pushing" my hands, my brain to play something out of my reach than gathering the necessary techniques. And if you don't learn then - you just can't use them. You may push yourself into playing something hard by doing hours of practice but this will not be the same as when you have the technique to play it.
If you don't have the technique, you have to push it by practicing long hours but it is never as reliable as it should be with a piece that you actually have skills for.
To bring a Chopin etude to the required tempo without the arsenal of required technique skills is impossible.
I am not saying that you don't have it - I don't know but since you don't have a teacher - it is very likely and that's why people keep asking you for video because they want to see how you are doing.
Anyways, good luck, I admire that amount of determination and passion you have:-)
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No teacher could practice instead of me, Of course, having good critics can make things better, but practice is still 99% of the job. I was talking about Op10 no12 that I play on metronome half tempo, but also Op10 No1 in parts.
I didn't want to show a performance of it, cause it's practice tool for me, but you guys seem to wonder lots of things, so I guess, I'll have to show the progress.
This post wasn't exactly asking for help, it had more a purpose to be inspirational. A very different way to approach music, whatever the status quo says.
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No teacher could practice instead of me, Of course, having good critics can make things better, but practice is still 99% of the job.
The teacher could show you how to practice correctly though...incorrect practice won't really get you that far, it's just a lot of wasted time.
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The teacher could show you how to practice correctly though...incorrect practice won't really get you that far, it's just a lot of wasted time.
+1
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This post wasn't exactly asking for help, it had more a purpose to be inspirational. A very different way to approach music, whatever the status quo says.
No one will see your plan as 'inspirational' as there is no evidence that what you are doing is effective. It's good to know that you are not asking for help-- a lot of people have assumed that you were looking for advice.
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No one will see your plan as 'inspirational' as there is no evidence that what you are doing is effective. It's good to know that you are not asking for help-- a lot of people have assumed that you were looking for advice.
Well of course if you guys spot something that I didn't, it's highly appreciated.
As for the speculations that I'm wasting my time practicing wrong and that I'm gonna wreck my fingers, might be right, might be wrong...
I don't feel pain at all and practice has improved my flexibility. It's harder to break something flexible...
You don't have to believe me when I say these etudes have been beneficial to me, but it's the headline of this post. I'm sure some other people have taken some benefit from them as well.
But is there any of guys here commenting that actually play these etudes? I hope so, otherwise it would be like being a doctor and telling a carpenter he's not holding his hammer right, yet he builds...
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yet he builds...
(https://www.edu.dudley.gov.uk/teachandlearnresources/dudleycd/holes/crookhse.jpg)
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(https://www.edu.dudley.gov.uk/teachandlearnresources/dudleycd/holes/crookhse.jpg)
Very charming and unique. One that can't be ignored
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But is there any of guys here commenting that actually play these etudes? I hope so, otherwise it would be like being a doctor and telling a carpenter he's not holding his hammer right, yet he builds...
Like you I tried to learn a couple of them a few years back. But came to my senses pretty quickly. Since then I have settled for the preludes, they present enough challenge for now. The complete edition of the etudes is sitting on my shelf, take it out occasionally and pretty quickly return it to it's resting place...
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But is there any of guys here commenting that actually play these etudes? I hope so, otherwise it would be like being a doctor and telling a carpenter he's not holding his hammer right, yet he builds...
Of course not, I'm not that crazy, in my fifth year of study, there's no way I learn that etudes, I wish I could!! But I have the scores, for the future. Reading your post, I dont' know if you are very stubborn or you are trying to convince everyone that this is the best way and that we are wasting our time learning in a normal path.
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Of course not, I'm not that crazy, in my fifth year of study, there's no way I learn that etudes, I wish I could!! But I have the scores, for the future. Reading your post, I dont' know if you are very stubborn or you are trying to convince everyone that this is the best way and that we are wasting our time learning in a normal path.
What I'm saying is I'm choosing a piece because I like it. If it's hard, so be it, I'll just practice it slower, for longer. Everything is hard before it becomes second nature. It's the same for professional players, prodigies and geniuses. It's hard for them too when they try to learn a Chopin etude for the first time.
Maybe you can't play them only because you believe it's impossible, So you don't even try. If you did, you'd realize, it's not impossible, just hard. Then overtime hard becomes easier, and so on
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But is there any of guys here commenting that actually play these etudes? I hope so, otherwise it would be like being a doctor and telling a carpenter he's not holding his hammer right, yet he builds...
Yeah I've only played a couple because I don't like them THAT much.
But just because you don't play a piece doesn't mean you don't know what you're talking about. If that's the case then how do teachers teach students a piece that they themselves haven't played before? I haven't played op 10 1 but I still know what you're getting into.
The problem is that you're not advanced enough to be self evaluating like this. You say that the Chopin etudes have been very beneficial but you haven't consulted with a teacher so you don't even know for sure that you're playing it the 'right' way. You're not at the point to evaluate based on how you feel yet. Just because something feels good doesn't mean that it actually is good. And you don't get to that point until you're WAY into your piano studies. And I'm talking like at least a decade maybe if you're a prodigy.
And we don't even know for sure if you're doing it right. Cause you haven't posted a video yet.
We're not trying to shoot you down cause of some envy that you can play a Chopin étude at 2 years of playing, we're just trying to help because we know of and have seen some fucked up sh*t happen to pianists and other instrumentalists who try stuff that's really difficult without the proper guidance.
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No, it's not a matter of if it's or not possible, the thing as I see is: Do I want to spend at least two years, trying to learn a piece that I love, wich ¡s far beyond my capabilities right now, and probably I will not master and wil be hating by the end of the learning? The answer for me obiously is: no, I dont. But if it works for you...
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Yeah I've only played a couple because I don't like them THAT much.
But just because you don't play a piece doesn't mean you don't know what you're talking about. If that's the case then how do teachers teach students a piece that they themselves haven't played before? I haven't played op 10 1 but I still know what you're getting into.
The problem is that you're not advanced enough to be self evaluating like this. You say that the Chopin etudes have been very beneficial but you haven't consulted with a teacher so you don't even know for sure that you're playing it the 'right' way. You're not at the point to evaluate based on how you feel yet. Just because something feels good doesn't mean that it actually is good. And you don't get to that point until you're WAY into your piano studies. And I'm talking like at least a decade maybe if you're a prodigy.
And we don't even know for sure if you're doing it right. Cause you haven't posted a video yet.
We're not trying to shoot you down cause of some envy that you can play a Chopin étude at 2 years of playing, we're just trying to help because we know of and have seen some fucked up sh*t happen to pianists and other instrumentalists who try stuff that's really difficult without the proper guidance.
Yeah I can only say I "feel" it's beneficial for me. And staying objective is pretty hard if possible at all. What i hear in my head is much different to what I hear back when I listen to it after. But taking videos is a better way towards objectivity. If it's not me spotting something, It will be someone esle and i'd be like : Omg, yeah, of course!
I don't plan on being a concert pianist, so I don't need a 2 hours repertoire, I'm doing this for me and only me. That's why i'm also a bit shy to show it in videos, cause I know the vision I have isn't reality yet
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No, it's not a matter of if it's or not possible, the thing as I see is: Do I want to spend at least two years, trying to learn a piece that I love, wich ¡s far beyond my capabilities right now, and probably I will not master and wil be hating by the end of the learning? The answer for me obiously is: no, I dont. But if it works for you...
I'm not gonna be a concert pianist, I have no pressure form family or teacher, no deadlines, Just all the time till I die to do my best.
Some pieces are a whole universe in themselves, a world to travel through and rediscover every time.
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We're not trying to shoot you down cause of some envy that you can play a Chopin étude at 2 years of playing, we're just trying to help because we know of and have seen some fucked up sh*t happen to pianists and other instrumentalists who try stuff that's really difficult without the proper guidance.
Like what?
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Both pianist play the same piece, same notes, but... can you see the difference? This is one of the less complicated, not easy, there's not such a thing in Chopin's music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a6vlWYCFzM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a6vlWYCFzM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tovh6JjaQ1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tovh6JjaQ1A)
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Like what?
Jazz pianist friend of mine got tendonitis cause of developing bad technique. Another friend (acquaintance) of mine also got tendonitis but she got better with therapy.
I also heard some lady who won the Chopin competition a few years back had her career ended due to some hand injury but I don't know what.
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Both pianist play the same piece, same notes, but... can you see the difference? This is one of the less complicated, not easy, there's not such a thing in Chopin's music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a6vlWYCFzM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a6vlWYCFzM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tovh6JjaQ1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tovh6JjaQ1A)
It sure helps to have a well tuned piano with well placed microphones. That would be fair if this guy played on the same setup as Martha
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Jazz pianist friend of mine got tendonitis cause of developing bad technique. Another friend (acquaintance) of mine also got tendonitis but she got better with therapy.
I also heard some lady who won the Chopin competition a few years back had her career ended due to some hand injury but I don't know what.
Wow, that's sad to hear, especially when you're a pro musician making a living out of it.
Fortunately, I'm not a concert pianist, I don't have an audience to disappoint of I wreck my fingers. Most likely, it won't make any difference to anybody but me if I did, It would just be a sign it's time to quit pretentiously following my desires
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In that case, the piano is not the important thing, but if you can not hear the differences, then you have a big problem.
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In that case, the piano is not the important thing, but if you can not hear the differences, then you have a big problem.
Don't know why you continue to try! The OP has rebuffed all advice, in fact he has stated he doesn't want any, and he intends to do this his way. Not worth the keystrokes.
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I like Martha's playing too, but if you wanna compared two renditions, you don't put Martha on one side on a million dollar piano with a professional recording, and on the other an amateur playing on an untuned piano recorded with an Iphone
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Don't know why you continue to try! The OP has rebuffed all advice, in fact he has stated he doesn't want any, and he intends to do this his way. Not worth the keystrokes.
Is this advice or you guys only stating your own opinion and tastes?
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Is this advice or you guys only stating your own opinion and tastes?
You have had a lot of advice and warnings, which you have rebuffed.
I am done and I hope others follow suit. Do it your way.
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You have had a lot of advice and warnings, which you have rebuffed.
I am done and I hope others follow suit. Do it your way.
I had your warnings, you are welcome out of my post
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It sure helps to have a well tuned piano with well placed microphones. That would be fair if this guy played on the same setup as Martha
Seriously? You don't hear the difference in the quality of playing? If so you really shouldn't be teaching yourself...especially not the Chopin etudes...
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Don't know why you continue to try! The OP has rebuffed all advice, in fact he has stated he doesn't want any, and he intends to do this his way. Not worth the keystrokes.
While the op may be beyond help, this thread has over 700 views already and I think it's well worth to state other opinions. Many beginners take advice from random threads in the internet without realizing how ill adviced that may be...
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I had your warnings, you are welcome out of my post
You seem to think that we have a mission of taking away your great feelings of learning to play music you love. Believe me, you are not the first one. When I went to my present teacher I did struggle with the idea of having to learn boring or even annoying music. Instead of giving up on a teacher who could demonstrate me LaCampanella like a pro and then said "IF you ever want to play this kind of music you must...". I don't like that piece but there are many others of the same difficulty level I do love, so I took the bait. The fact that she believes I could do that starting at 45 felt amazing.
I then had to struggle to keep up the motivation to practice when the music didn't really inspire me. But I found a solution: I spent a lot if time looking for repertoire I could find interesting while also being accepted by my teacher. You say you have tried teachers but did not find it useful. That may be because you resist to take this path which I believe really is the only one working when the goals are such as yours.
I am ready to admit that the pieces in my signature are also not the best choices for someone who has only 4 years of lessons behind. But they are things I like and my teacher has accepted them. And I do learn them and from them, just slower than if I was learning something simpler. Would it be possible without my teacher? Definitely not because I would not do the right things.
My point? Do not give up on the idea of getting some teaching so easily. And if you do, then accept that you need to teach yourself something that is self-teachable.
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I live in a small town and all known teachers could not help me, not to learn Chopin at least.
The pieces is my signature might take a lifetime to master, but I'm not gonna be a concert pianist, I don't have any pressure, I work on them just cause I love them so much and they are the pieces I wanna play, and I understand how arrogant and stubborn it might sound.
It just happened that while playing Chopin etudes, I realized it was beneficial. And all the rest from there was a debate about teaching methods, which was fun too, we've been talking about a lot of things.
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My point? Do not give up on the idea of getting some teaching so easily. And if you do, then accept that you need to teach yourself something that is self-teachable.
It's all in the score tho. I have the URtext version, and it's the closest to what Chopin intended. I just read and play the score. I wanna be surprised by what comes out of it, it's very much a personal experience trying to reach the composer through his sheets.
If one person should tell you how to play music, it's the score itself. It's all in there. All the rest is physical training
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It's all in the score tho. I have the URtext version, and it's the closest to what Chopin intended. I just read and play the score. I wanna be surprised by what comes out of it, it's very much a personal experience trying to reach the composer through his sheets.
If one person should tell you how to play music, it's the score itself. It's all in there. All the rest is physical training
I think this is a big misunderstanding. It's not all in the score. The notation is only a skeleton. There's a huge amount of tradition, technique and other information that is not in the score. And the composer took it by granted that you have it before you read the score.
Being stubborn is not necessarily negative. I am too as you have noticed. But without any flexibility it can become a great obstacle. You can spend your whole life with the pieces in your signature and never master them if you do it the wrong way. Many have tried and failed...
Maybe the teachers in your town cannot teach you the etudes as well as someone else, but if they can teach the basics of piano playing they will help you a long way on the path.
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I think this is a big misunderstanding. It's not all in the score.
Quite. Chopin was asked by a student to mark all the performance indications on the score - he replied 'Madame, if I should do that the score would be black!'
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Don't know why you continue to try! The OP has rebuffed all advice, in fact he has stated he doesn't want any, and he intends to do this his way. Not worth the keystrokes.
Yes, you are absolutely right. This guy doesnt want advice, he just wants us to tell him he has had the most brilliant idea in the world. Since he cant hear the differences in the two videos, i'ts clear he has a serious poblem. Anyway, I'm done, it's up to him, none of my bussines anymore.
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I think this is a big misunderstanding. It's not all in the score. The notation is only a skeleton. There's a huge amount of tradition, technique and other information that is not in the score. And the composer took it by granted that you have it before you read the score.
Being stubborn is not necessarily negative. I am too as you have noticed. But without any flexibility it can become a great obstacle. You can spend your whole life with the pieces in your signature and never master them if you do it the wrong way. Many have tried and failed...
Maybe the teachers in your town cannot teach you the etudes as well as someone else, but if they can teach the basics of piano playing they will help you a long way on the path.
I see... Well like I told you I would really much to have a great teacher if I had access to one. My personal practice surely isn't the best. All the great pianists have had great teachers. But I believe as long as I stay pretty relaxed and don't get injuries, it's not wasted time, my sight reading is getting better too.
There's a saying that goes : You wish you had more but do your best with what you have now.
And that really all I can do, for now
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There is a saying that goes
"Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still"
More discussion at
https://thesundowner.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/a-man-convinced-against-his-will-is-of-the-same-opinion-still/
Note ut is just a google hit, not a direct and intentional oush of thst blogs agenda , more for the definition origin and meaning if the quote and nothing else since some wont quite understand what it is "saying"
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There is a saying that goes
"Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still"
More discussion at
https://thesundowner.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/a-man-convinced-against-his-will-is-of-the-same-opinion-still/
Wow, that's very insightful.
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Funnily, no one has tried to find out why these etudes have been beneficial to me.
Common thinking seems to assume that it's more detrimental than anything without the "proper" guidance.
There was a lot of outrage, should nots, impossibles and doubts. Yet the title is about me finding something beneficial.
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You keep saying that you're not gonna be a professional pianist. It's not about training to become a professional, it's about trying to be the best you can be and/or getting good enough to play the pieces you wanna play WELL.
You say that you have bad teachers in your town because they don't wanna start you off with Chopin and now you won't get a teacher for that reason. That's so narrow minded. You need to be exposed to more music with different styles and techniques for you to get better so you can eventually play Chopin etudes effectively anyways. You'll probably find more music you like on the way. Nobody who has a good knowledge of repertoire ONLY likes one composer. I don't think they're bad teachers, I just think they won't let you do what you want right away.
We all went through the motions so we all KNOW what we're talking about. If this post was meant to be inspirational, it's not. It's just bad advice. We don't want other beginners trying this out.
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Funnily, no one has tried to find out why these etudes have been beneficial to me.
Common thinking seems to assume that it's more detrimental than anything without the "proper" guidance.
There was a lot of outrage, should nots, impossibles and doubts. Yet the title is about me finding something beneficial.
That's cause it could bring more harm than good in your situation.
Yeah it's common thinking because we know what we're talking about lol.
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That's cause it could bring more harm than good in your situation.
Yeah it's common thinking because we know what we're talking about lol.
You know what you're talking about, meaning, you can play these etudes?
And if there is a right time, WHEN?
There was an idiot coming to a new town, there was a huge rock. He decided to climb it. Villagers saw him climbing and yelled at him : Come down! We've all tried to climb it, it's impossible !! Turns the the idiot wasn't an idiot, he was just deaf. So he didn't hear anything and climbed it to the top.
it's just a story, ok, don't go all crazy about it ;)
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You keep saying that you're not gonna be a professional pianist. It's not about training to become a professional, it's about trying to be the best you can be and/or getting good enough to play the pieces you wanna play WELL.
You say that you have bad teachers in your town because they don't wanna start you off with Chopin and now you won't get a teacher for that reason. That's so narrow minded. You need to be exposed to more music with different styles and techniques for you to get better so you can eventually play Chopin etudes effectively anyways. You'll probably find more music you like on the way. Nobody who has a good knowledge of repertoire ONLY likes one composer. I don't think they're bad teachers, I just think they won't let you do what you want right away.
We all went through the motions so we all KNOW what we're talking about. If this post was meant to be inspirational, it's not. It's just bad advice. We don't want other beginners trying this out.
I enjoy every minute of the practice on these pieces, they don't harm me. They make me happy as well as bringing me better control. Is it so hard to understand? Did you take a minute even considering what I'm saying might be true?
I'd rather play a difficult piece very slow with a nice sound. It's already pleasurable, the speed will come at the right time. It's just a sheet a music, you can play these pieces a 0,001 BPM if you want to.
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How about stop bitching? There are different traditions in learning. Some goes gradually, some jumps. OP, if you want real advice on this site, you have to post videos. Here, people are stuck in one tradition. Go for playing what you want, just be aware of that you might miss seeing things, if the piece is too difficult.
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You say that you have bad teachers in your town because they don't wanna start you off with Chopin and now you won't get a teacher for that reason. That's so narrow minded.
I never said they were "bad" teachers, just inappropriate.
You go buy a vanilla ice cream and you get a pistachio one, is it narrow minded to tell the vendor it's not what you came for?
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How about stop bitching? There are different traditions in learning. Some goes gradually, some jumps. OP, if you want real advice on this site, you have to post videos. Here, people are stuck in one tradition. Go for playing what you want, just be aware of that you might miss seeing things, if the piece is too difficult.
Why everybody keeps calling me an "OP" ? I don't even know what that is.
I wanna know the thing that I'm missing that everybody's talking about, so, I'm gonna make a new thread with videos
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OP means Original poster
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OP means Original poster
:D Thx
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You know what you're talking about, meaning, you can play these etudes?
And if there is a right time, WHEN?
There was an idiot coming to a new town, there was a huge rock. He decided to climb it. Villagers saw him climbing and yelled at him : Come down! We've all tried to climb it, it's impossible !! Turns the the idiot wasn't an idiot, he was just deaf. So he didn't hear anything and climbed it to the top.
it's just a story, ok, don't go all crazy about it ;)
Yes I can play these...
When? Whenever you're ready. That could be a few years or a few months. You need to be patient.
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I never said they were "bad" teachers, just inappropriate.
You go buy a vanilla ice cream and you get a pistachio one, is it narrow minded to tell the vendor it's not what you came for?
They're not inappropriate. almost EVERY teacher you find in and outside your town will take the same approach.
That's a false analogy. Ice cream and piano repertoire are completely unrelated.
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You need to be patient.
Sorry, I think I failed there ;D
I have to discover the things that I'm missing, but it will be the topic of the next post.
Thx for your comments, Rach
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They're not inappropriate. almost EVERY teacher you find in and outside your town will take the same approach.
That's a false analogy. Ice cream and piano repertoire are completely unrelated.
Actually, if you wanna know the truth, the teachers insisted that they didn't want to teach me.
I hope every teacher is not like that, tho. And I'm sure the good teacher for me is somewhere in this world.
About the Ice cream analogy, read it a few times, and you'll understand
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Actually, if you wanna know the truth, the teachers insisted that they didn't want to teach me.
I hope every teacher is not like that, tho. And I'm sure the good teacher for me is somewhere in this world.
About the Ice cream analogy, read it a few times, and you'll understand
So it's not that they won't teach you Chopin, they won't teach you in general?
I understand the ice cream analogy well. It's still a bad analogy. you don't build up skill and put in hard work to eat ice cream...
What you're saying is like trying to tell your trainer that you wanna run a marathon but don't wanna put in the proper training.
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So it's not that they won't teach you Chopin, they won't teach you in general?
Won't teach me in general, that's right
[quote author=rachmaninoff_forever link=topic=59730.msg642087#msg642087
I understand the ice cream analogy well. It's still a bad analogy. you don't build up skill and put in hard work to eat ice cream...
[/quote]
Looks like you still didn't get it
[quote author=rachmaninoff_forever link=topic=59730.msg642087#msg642087
What you're saying is like trying to tell your trainer that you wanna run a marathon but don't wanna put in the proper training.
[/quote]
No it's not what I'm saying
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Won't teach me in general, that's right
No it's not what I'm saying
I got your analogy. You apparently didn't.
That's precisely what you're saying. You don't wanna put in the work to build up a foundation to properly learn hard stuff is the same as a runner who doesn't wanna put in the work to run a marathon.
Why then won't they teach you? NOBODY in your town doesn't want you as a student?
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NOBODY in your town doesn't want you as a student?
Yes, because I'm not a child anymore. Teachers don't teach adults
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Yes, because I'm not a child anymore. Teachers don't teach adults
I am sad to hear that... Have you considered Skype lessons? Not the best option but better than nothing in my opinion. Even an occasional lesson with a qualified teacher would be helpful in studying the pieces.
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Yes, because I'm not a child anymore. Teachers don't teach adults
I had the same problem. Finally I found a teacher in a nearby town, thank God. As an adult you are not supposed to pursue any interest seriously. There are "study circles" where you can learn the basic chords etcetera. Adult amateurs with higher ambitions are seen as odd creatures, trying "to do the impossible" (whatever that is supposed to mean!)
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I am sad to hear that... Have you considered Skype lessons? Not the best option but better than nothing in my opinion. Even an occasional lesson with a qualified teacher would be helpful in studying the pieces.
That would be great, I'm seriously considering it.
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I had the same problem. Finally I found a teacher in a nearby town, thank God. As an adult you are not supposed to pursue any interest seriously. There are "study circles" where you can learn the basic chords etcetera. Adult amateurs with higher ambitions are seen as odd creatures, trying "to do the impossible" (whatever that is supposed to mean!)
I'm so happy for you that you found someone. I was thinking I could find also a "piano Buddy" with whom i could share my findings, and vice versa, or some kind of community of passionate players to join. I might have to move to another town tho...
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That would be great, I'm seriously considering it.
If you are interested I could recommend you somebody. Have been using his website for a year now and found great tips there. Now I decided to give it a try and get a few lessons with him (additionally to my regular lessons) and I am really very happy. And the price is ok too.
I don't know if I can write it here so if you are interested I can PM you the info.
(PM=private message ;D)
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So how is progress on op 10 no 1? Or maybe you have started practicing something else?
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So how is progress on op 10 no 1? Or maybe you have started practicing something else?
Yes i'm working on a lot of pieces at once, and i sight read through all of the chopin etudes, trying to get a general feel. It's just too much fun
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Just being a little pedantic, If it was anybody else Yadehoo i'd let it slip ;)
But the definition of sight reading is
"read and perform (music) from sheet music, without preparation."
I'm confident that's not the case with all The Chopin Etudes that you mentioned!
Still looking forward to that recording!
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Just being a little pedantic, If it was anybody else Yadehoo i'd let it slip ;)
But the definition of sight reading is
"read and perform (music) from sheet music, without preparation."
I'm confident that's not the case with all The Chopin Etudes that you mentioned!
Still looking forward to that recording!
Yes, that what I'm doing. Only that I'm "performing" it really slowly. Not at full speed (obviously?)
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OK let's tackle this again Yadehoo, i'm concerned at your statement suggesting you're now "performing" Chopin's Etudes...regardless of tempo.
There was an extract from an article I have read recently that has altered my idea of slow practice that i think would be worth taking interest in.
I agree that slow practice in itself is good to engage your brain, to remember the notes the idea of the piece, phrasing etc. But don't get tricked into thinking you can just slowly, slowly increase the speed. There has to be a clear increase in speed when you're comfortable with the notes, but understanding the motions will not be the same is important.
Credit to the information I have taken out of Dr Chang's book for this next example, but imagine a person walking, you can walk really really slow, or you can walk really really fast, but you are limited by the motions involved in walking that you hit a certain speed you cannot go any faster. (power walking?!)
Now it is at that stage you are stressing your body out by forcing speed that isn't supported by that motion, what do we then do? We start jogging, running, there's very different motions involved to obtain the next level of speed.
Now at the piano, psychologically we will end up very stressed because while we can build up a lot of speed in this "walking pace" of learning a piano piece, you are going to hit a wall where you are trying to use motions not built for the speed you're hoping to obtain. The problem with tempo increase is that we will sit at that tempo trying to play, thinking we cannot do it because we using the motions we have ingrained the last 500 times of practice at slower tempos...
The two ways around this are -
Play at a reasonable tempo already (to ensure your practice speed is at a slow jog rather than fast walk)
OR create big jumps in tempo increase to ensure you are surpassing that stressed walking stage.
The problem with the second plan is you could still hit that wall on one of the tempo increases and also even if you jump over that stressed stage you're still going to feel uncomfortable with the new motions that will be required at the new tempo.
Suggestion 1 has the most promise in my opinion, playing a piece at no slower than 50% of it's original tempo to ensure there is already fast motions required. So this creates some questions.
What if you cannot play a piece accurately at 50% speed? my first thoughts are you are not ready for the level of difficulty! if you are the persistent type, breaking the piece down to it's core will help you create exercises and studies that tackle what you are trying to learn in a manageable way, a way that cannot be obtained by repeating parts of the piece that you already do not know how to do!
Your example of the op 10.1 etude you posted a couple of weeks ago is essentially arpeggios, so practice normal arpeggios.
Note when I say 50% I don't mean off the bat of seeing the notes for the first time, I mean you've read a couple bars, you've played the notes you know where you got to go, you do a couple of tries at that slow walking pace and then increase the tempo to 50%.
Now the reality of piano music is the faster it gets, the harder it gets. The more notes per second required is what makes our brain work harder, our fingers work harder and our true accuracy tested. It is no surprise that Chopin's etudes are very high tempo and a hell-a-lot of notes which is why many users on here advise that you are to start on simpler, manageable pieces rather than sitting on these for months on end.
&feature=youtu.be
That's your post from June right, 5 months ago. In 5 months dabbling on this piece (and others) you don't seemed to have achieved anything that you can perform (or that we are yet to see) or proven any dramatic improvement in playing.
Are you even at a stage where you can fluently play any Etude from start to finish?
Cmon man, take a realistic approach to this and rethink your piano practice methods. People are advising on here, not insulting. (most anyway lol)
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I see nothing wrong with trying to play through the etudes at any level (painstaking bar by painstaking bar, lol) At least a novice will gain some "hands-on" experience and have the pleasure of hearing the music in an immediate way, even if the technique required is light years beyond his current capability.
As to the danger of injury, I would tend to think that that happens more often with advanced pianists who push themselves too hard, although I grant you that this could also happen to a beginner.
As a general approach, why couldn't someone play simpler pieces which can more easily be mastered along with exploring the virtuoso repertoire? I think it's commendable that the OP has the curiosity and discipline to undertake this potentially frustrating quest. He's having fun, so why not?
Yes, having a knowledgeable teacher would help, but until that day arrives...
By the way, I remember reading that Josef Hoffmann supposedly said that no one will ever master the Chopin Etudes. From that point of view we're all beginners.
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I don't think the curiosity is the main issue Philog. I agree, I have dabbled in all the pieces from the Chopin Ballades, to Liszts Rhapsodies and they have motivated me to work harder at the pieces within my range, but it seems the OP has dived straight into these very difficult pieces and worked on nothing within their actual skill range.
You could be spending months, years at pieces that are uncompletable(for use of a better word) because you lack the skills and knowledge to play the pieces you're attempting, it's not that we should condemn this approach, but there are so many more efficient and logical ways to learn the piano that it would be a "pianist crime" to allow somebody to continue with the OP's thought process.
Furthermore It would be ignorant to assume as a beginner, or even with a little experience that you could "guess" your way through playing these pieces. I'm not sure of your situation, but the OP does not have a teacher, they do not have much piano experience, and as mentioned has shown little to no progress on these etudes for over 5 months, and the progress they have shown so far has been questionable by some of the experienced players on here.
The intent is there, and it is good, but the logic is not, and combine that with the OP's general attitude towards piano playing as well as ill-given advice to others (evidence in other forums) they are setting themselves up for disaster, and not only do they question the advice of more experienced pianists, they reject it.
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adodd, I think you've made some excellent points, but in the end it's up to you-know-who to follow your advice (might be a losing battle, though lol).
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mmm, that's pretty interesting comments.
I think speed finds it's way eventually when you're comfortable playing slowly, at least, it's like that for me. As for you judging I'm making no progress, you've compared 2 different pieces. So... how could you know?
Just can't help it to have too much fun practicing Chopin etudes, I don't think they're hard, I think they are what they are. It's enticing enough for me to want to study them. And yes it has expanded my noobie technique to a better level.
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I think speed finds it's way eventually when you're comfortable playing slowly, at least, it's like that for me....
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um. no. adaptation is stimulus specific. slow practice gets you better at playing slowly. practicing at speed gets you better at playing at speed.
one may need slow practice to identify an issue to correct first, or make sure note errors are addressed but to not go back and practice what was fixed at tempo but rather continue to play slowly does nothing towards playing the music properly.
tempo and dynamics, phrasing, articulation are as much part of the music. to not address and play them as called for in the score is to play /learn it wrong.
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um. no. adaptation is stimulus specific. slow practice gets you better at playing slowly. practicing at speed gets you better at playing at speed.
one may need slow practice to identify an issue to correct first, or make sure note errors are addressed but to not go back and practice what was fixed at tempo but rather continue to play slowly does nothing towards playing the music properly.
tempo and dynamics, phrasing, articulation are as much part of the music. to not address and play them as called for in the score is to play /learn it wrong.
Alright, let's say I'm the only person is the world for whom practicing slowly helps playing more fluidly, comfortably and eventually faster. I'm a phenomenon. You guys want to study me? That should be interesting...
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Alright, let's say I'm the only person is the world for whom practicing slowly helps playing more fluidly, comfortably and eventually faster. I'm a phenomenon. You guys want to study me? That should be interesting...
LOL.