Piano Forum
Piano Board => Repertoire => Topic started by: stormx on December 19, 2005, 03:16:36 PM
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Hi !! :) :)
I hate when pianists make pianissimo parts sooooooo low that you beleive someone has turned the CD player off !!!
Great dinamyc range is good, but up to some point, dont you think?
The last Cd i bought is one where Pletnev plays many Chopin pieces (DG). I like Pletnev very much, and i like Chopin too, of course. The play and the sound are very good, but in the Fantaisie he plays a section so ppppp that it seems the piece has ended !!
What do you think about exagerated pianissimos?
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that's a great point. i hadn't noticed this with recordings as much as live concerts. it really bugs me when a pianist is covered up by the symphony in a softer passage. if a pianist chooses to play super soft - it should be at least an agreed upon volume that the instrumentalists can hold to as well. maybe for large audiences you have to play a louder pianissimo because the sound gets swallowed up so fast?
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true pianism lies in ability to make ppp which can be heard in last row of the hall as well as in first one and still be quiet as possible. everybody can make fortissimo, only few can make the wonderful piano. that makes the difference between good and bad pianist.
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true pianism lies in ability to make ppp which can be heard in last row of the hall as well as in first one and still be quiet as possible. everybody can make fortissimo, only few can make the wonderful piano. that makes the difference between good and bad pianist.
Yes
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my teacher told me of one of the greatest lessons he ever learned about piano playing. He was playing background music for some ball that his teacher set up. About three pieces into his evening, his teacher walks up to him and says, "we don't give a damn about how quietly you play, play the damn melody and let us enjoy it."
good advice.
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true pianism lies in ability to make ppp which can be heard in last row of the hall as well as in first one and still be quiet as possible. everybody can make fortissimo, only few can make the wonderful piano. that makes the difference between good and bad pianist.
I agre with paris-Richter once said: Public will response on the excelent forte, of course, but the true artist will play ppp which subtracts a breath..which is much more difficult..
I remember Pogorelich's performance of Beethoven's Sonata op.111-the ending trills were so quite, really ppp, and it was something so amazing and beautifull, and a pubilc reacted so wilde!!
So playing real pianissimo is kind of art, very beautifull art but very, very hard..
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I saw that sonata as well. Pogo definately can play quietly and slowly
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I frequently practice them with the grand lid all the way up. It's a wonderful sound and encourages the audience not to be just passive listeners, but active ones.
There is also the issue of playing pianissimos in concert halls with I think is a seperate concern. In such conditions you do have to judge the perspective of sound volume is different for you and your audience.
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aside from beautiful ppp's of great pianists, i think it is also a psychological approach.
if you were playing some music in a concert, your dynamic ranges should be well thought out, and the colors should be very contrasting. by this, i mean that there should be some logic to it, so that people will keep on listening (or maybe your whole interpretation and playing should be interesting)... in short, you have to get their attention. once you have their full attention, even your ppp's will sound great, because they will try to listen to your every note, no matter how soft it is. plus, if your dynamic range is also quite good. you wouldn't have to worry about those ppp effects that you've always wanted.
I think this is what my teacher meant by projection. it doesn't mean that you would have to adjust your volume to a higher level to be heard in a big hall. it's how you manipulate the dynamics/coloring, and keep your audience glued to your sound all the time.
but i still believe that there are great tones of ppp's regardless of its relativity to the other dynamics of the music.
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My philosophy is that if a composer liked a note enough to write it down then it should be heard clearly and distinctly; therefore, unhearable pianissimos, excessive pedal, and excessive legato are all bad. Also playing a the harmony so soft that you cannot hear it is bad too. Every note deserves to be heard. I wish that damper pedals should be outlawed. (or at least full dampers, partial dampers might be okay depending on the circumstances).
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that's so Germanic in approach, Contrapunctus! no wonder you love Bach so much, because every note is supposed to be heard. but let us remember that it will still depend on the composer.. debussy didn't want us to hear his music clearly, he wanted us to experience just the mere impression of it. in this case, Chopin... i think i've heard some impressionistic approach of his music and they were quite good, like the trilling effect at the end of his famous Eb Nocturne. in fact, i consider his music to be a mix of romanticism and impressionism, it's just that he didn't intend it to be so much like it. thats just an opinion though.
a composer like debussy or ravel may like a note well enough for him to write it down, but sometimes in context with other notes of a certain passage. sometimes we play that note too soft to be heard but when it's played with the other notes that are around it, it becomes a great sound. if it was schumann or brahms, then each note must be independent of its function and importance, hence, it is not just an effect. we have to hear it clearly.
but if the ppp's disrupt the flow of the musical phrase, or is not serving well enough the purpose of the effect, then that is so unmusical... it is possible that a pianist who does that may be showing off his technique.
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My philosophy is that if a composer liked a note enough to write it down then it should be heard clearly and distinctly; therefore, unhearable pianissimos, excessive pedal, and excessive legato are all bad. Also playing a the harmony so soft that you cannot hear it is bad too. Every note deserves to be heard. I wish that damper pedals should be outlawed. (or at least full dampers, partial dampers might be okay depending on the circumstances).
This philosophy also caries the danger that you are not fully open to hearing new and unknown musics (relative to you). You may come out thinking a performance was bad just because it didn't conform to certen performance characteristics. In essence you could be placing a subjective position on a piece of music before even hearing it.
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My teacher always talks about two non-sounds, or inappropriate sounds: Not sound yet, and not sound anymore. I don't know how to translate this correctly from Russian, so it sounds right in English, but I hope someone will understand and correct me. Not sound yet, is the barely hearable pianissississimo which sounds lame and undefined, not the wonderful breathtaking pianissimos some pianists achieve, and Not sound anymore, is the loud disgusting "hit" on the stings which is unlike the full round fortissimo. Between these two extremes, is the wonderful world of the sound-colors of the piano.
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I love the almost inaudible pianissimos.
For example, Musica Ricercata II by Ligeti performed by Aimard. The inaudible-ness of the ppps definitely fits the tone of the piece.