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Piano Board => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: contrapunctus on July 05, 2006, 03:55:09 AM

Title: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: contrapunctus on July 05, 2006, 03:55:09 AM: "There are three kinds of pianists - Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists." - Vladimir Horowitz

I am sure most of you have heard this before, so under which category do you belong?

Oh, and by the way, does anyone know any back story to this quote?
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: westley on July 05, 2006, 04:25:22 AM: I always sort of assumed that the extra punchline was thatas a jewish homosexual, Horowitz must be the best pianist ever.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: pianistimo on July 05, 2006, 04:33:01 AM: i think people's personal lives somehow become seemingly the personal property of their reviewers and students and friends - and it becomes a very fine line between love/hate. just as the paparazzi hounded princess diana - i think artists and generally good pianists deserve some privacy.

that said - i think u could add 'women' to the list. they are not always jewish or homosexual. just born sensitive and willing to admit fault (thereby increasing their chances to learn something during lessons).

what is the first thing u think about when u see a pianist? do u wonder 'are they jewish?' 'arethey homosexual' - does it matter? if they play really really well - i think it is an area of talent and not based upon the matters of privacy that should remain private. religion and sexual preference are private matters.

that said (yes - i go back and forth) - there are some extremely good looking pianists and i can see that a woman might wonder 'is he gay or straight?' but, then again - even if he's 'gay' and not 'straight' - he can still be a wonderful human being and not necessarily a sexual object of desire every moment that he plays. besides - we're not supposed to drool over people that way. it's just very difficult when a guy looks good and plays well.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: Waldszenen on July 05, 2006, 07:45:10 AM: Horowitz's quote may have been famous but it is grossly untrue.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: thetrojanhorse on July 05, 2006, 08:29:05 AM: Christ, it's supposed to be funny.

Go write your dissertation on "political-correctness" elsewhere.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: avetma on July 05, 2006, 09:00:51 AM: It's very stupid sentence from Horowitz. When man shows his feelings than he is homosexual or jewish?!

Nonsense
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: counterpoint on July 05, 2006, 09:19:48 AM: What Horowitz wanted to say

all of the world's best pianists are either jewish or gay (or - in his case - both :) )

any counterexamples...?

what do we learn from this?

the more troubles you have in life, the better pianist you will be.

sounds sarcastic but seems to be not that wrong
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: phil13 on July 05, 2006, 04:55:42 PM: Jewish 8)

Phil
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: ramseytheii on July 05, 2006, 08:03:39 PM: I love it! I wish I had thought of this poll.

Walter Ramsey
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: moi_not_toi on July 05, 2006, 08:12:25 PM: I think (in addition to being funny) as no one wants to admit being jewish (as the KKK might be at their door soon) or gay (except gay people) he was trying to say that no one is a good pianist.

I mean, you can't play everything, and that's what a good pianist is, thus you are either selfish, (no offence to jews), a bit off, (no offence to gays), or willing to admit that you're not the best their is.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: zheer on July 05, 2006, 08:12:40 PM: Bad
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: prometheus on July 05, 2006, 08:36:38 PM: Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: ramseytheii on July 05, 2006, 09:39:44 PM: Quote from: prometheus on July 05, 2006, 08:36:38 PM
Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.

Bigotric? That's a funny word! :D ::) I think Horowitz was referring to 1) himself, and 2) the disproportionate number of Jewish and homosexual pianists. I think the classical world there is neither discrimination against Jews nor against homosexuals. In fact Rubinstein implied a common acceptance of homosexualists even from a hundred years ago; he wrote that he was surprised to hear Horowitz was marrying W. Toscanini, as "we all knew" Horowitz's true persuasions. Knew, and accepted!

Walter Ramsey
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: prometheus on July 05, 2006, 10:15:07 PM: I knew is was not a good word. I tried to find an alternative I guess I either forgot or failed.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: ramseytheii on July 06, 2006, 12:18:46 AM: Quote from: prometheus on July 05, 2006, 10:15:07 PM
I knew is was not a good word. I tried to find an alternative I guess I either forgot or failed.

Unacceptable!

Walter Ramsey
>:(

;D

;)
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: moi_not_toi on July 06, 2006, 12:57:06 AM: Quote from: ramseytheii on July 05, 2006, 09:39:44 PM
Bigotric? That's a funny word! :D ::) I think Horowitz was referring to 1) himself, and 2) the disproportionate number of Jewish and homosexual pianists. I think the classical world there is neither discrimination against Jews nor against homosexuals. In fact Rubinstein implied a common acceptance of homosexualists even from a hundred years ago; he wrote that he was surprised to hear Horowitz was marrying W. Toscanini, as "we all knew" Horowitz's true persuasions. Knew, and accepted!

Walter Ramsey

Horowitz was gay!!!!??????
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: stevie on July 06, 2006, 01:26:59 AM: (https://www.nndb.com/people/776/000027695/liberace-LotImg15176.jpg)

and would you believe it...this man may have been gay too
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: counterpoint on July 06, 2006, 07:50:51 AM: Horowitz didn't say, every gay is a great pianist ;D
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: jason2711 on July 06, 2006, 09:36:40 PM: bad... though I'm working on becoming Jewish...

But I think it's maybe due to the ostracism that both these groups face/ faced. Many great pianists/ composers had to leave their country and family. Horowitz was one, as was Chopin himself. Cziffra spent time in a Soviet Prisoner of War camp. (he wasn't gay or Jewish was he? :-\) Barry Douglas, neither gay or Jewish, grew up in Northern Ireland at a time when the violence was at it it's worst. And don't forget those great movies 'the pianist' and 'shine'. Both times, the pianist gets separated from his family, and in the former he sees his whole world destroyed (well, more or less).

I think isolation often is important... too many distractions and you lose focus. For something like training to be a concert pianist, you need to have an incredible drive. Homosexuals probably back in Horowitz's day weren't so open, so most would have kept in the closet about it, and thus would have been pretty lonely. Without generalising too much, Jews are often very ambitious. For their relative abundance in Western Society, they are more likely to be in professional jobs. Perhaps it is this determined ambition which works well becoming a concert pianist.

Of course, there are countless examples of non-gay, non-Jewish great pianists, I'm pretty sure Horowitz wasn't being too serious...
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: counterpoint on July 06, 2006, 09:56:25 PM: Quote
I'm pretty sure Horowitz wasn't being too serious...

serious and not serious at the same time, I think ::)
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: Waldszenen on July 07, 2006, 01:25:42 AM: Quote from: moi_not_toi on July 06, 2006, 12:57:06 AM
Horowitz was gay!!!!??????

Not Van Cliburn girlishly gay, but one of those folks who married but had a few "friends" to keep him company once in a while.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: moi_not_toi on July 09, 2006, 06:37:48 PM: :'( :'( :'(
How depressing.

I feel sorry for his wife.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: counterpoint on July 09, 2006, 07:23:21 PM: Horowitz was married by Wanda (Toscanini), as she told in a tv-interview, and I feel sorry for him. 8)
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: chopinfan_22 on July 10, 2006, 03:08:18 AM: Quote from: moi_not_toi on July 05, 2006, 08:12:25 PM
I think (in addition to being funny) as no one wants to admit being jewish (as the KKK might be at their door soon) or gay (except gay people) he was trying to say that no one is a good pianist.

I mean, you can't play everything, and that's what a good pianist is, thus you are either selfish, (no offence to jews), a bit off, (no offence to gays), or willing to admit that you're not the best their is.

I agree fully. I am bad.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: rimv2 on July 10, 2006, 05:13:56 AM: Quote from: prometheus on July 05, 2006, 08:36:38 PM
Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.

You're a gay jew arent you?
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: edmundas on July 10, 2006, 03:16:40 PM: Stupid, REALY stupid question!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: moi_not_toi on July 10, 2006, 04:42:49 PM: Quote from: rimv2 on July 10, 2006, 05:13:56 AM

You're a gay jew arent you?
Perhaps he just doesn't want to admit that he sucks like the rest of us. (oh, wait. That sounds SOO wrong. But I don't mean it that way)
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: bachfan87 on July 14, 2006, 03:21:32 AM: Well of course he would have said that, he's Jewish.
I'm not Jewish, gay, and I sure hope I'm not bad! Though I'm probably bad compared to him of couse!
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: alejo_90 on July 15, 2006, 02:10:17 AM: I'm not Jewish, I'm not Gay, I'm just Bad.

Best
Alex

Yay ! 250th post ! :) :P
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: ramseytheii on July 15, 2006, 02:22:53 AM: Quote from: alejo_90 on July 15, 2006, 02:10:17 AM
I'm not Jewish, I'm not Gay, I'm just Bad.

Best
Alex

Yay ! 250th post ! :) :P

Well - you'd have to be !
8)

Walter Ramsey
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: jre58591 on July 15, 2006, 06:13:05 AM: Quote from: edmundas on July 10, 2006, 03:16:40 PM
Stupid, REALY stupid question!!!!!!!!!!
by saying this, you are blaspheming horowitz.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: alejo_90 on July 17, 2006, 03:15:29 AM: Quote from: ramseytheii on July 15, 2006, 02:22:53 AM
Well - you'd have to be !
8)

Walter Ramsey

??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: frau on July 18, 2006, 04:09:46 PM: What an excellent, humorous quote! I love it.

I'd go with homosexual, but since the whole sexuality thing is still very much up in the air... I'll go with bad.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: pies on July 18, 2006, 05:43:08 PM: Horowitz was not gay! He had a wife (though they slept in separate beds...).
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: cfortunato on July 18, 2006, 07:33:21 PM: Brian Epstein must have been a great, great pianist.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: bernhard on July 18, 2006, 08:01:41 PM: Quote from: pies on July 18, 2006, 05:43:08 PM
Horowitz was not gay! He had a wife

So did Tchaikovsky and Richter... ::)

Quote
(though they slept in separate beds...).

There you go. ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: moi_not_toi on July 18, 2006, 09:25:00 PM: Quote from: bernhard on July 18, 2006, 08:01:41 PM
So did Tchaikovsky and Richter... ::)

There you go. ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Sleeping in seperate beds was a common practice in the US at that time. Don't tell me it wasn't everywhere else. (yeah, I know that it sounds like I think that the world thinks like the US, but I don't think that.)
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: bernhard on July 18, 2006, 09:30:27 PM: Quote from: moi_not_toi on July 18, 2006, 09:25:00 PM
Sleeping in seperate beds was a common practice in the US at that time. Don't tell me it wasn't everywhere else.

Er... Ok. I won´t tell you then. ;D
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: moi_not_toi on July 18, 2006, 11:40:44 PM: Quote from: bernhard on July 18, 2006, 09:30:27 PM
Er... Ok. I won´t tell you then. ;D
::) ::)
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: pianowelsh on September 09, 2006, 09:46:02 AM: Just goes to show you dont have to be clever or a great politician to be a fantastic pianist!!
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: brucesan on September 09, 2006, 07:48:52 PM: Im sure that a person as intelligent as Horowitz couldnt have been serious when he made this comment. He was just making a joke out of the fact that a large number of professional pianists are Jewish or gay or both.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: pianolist on September 11, 2006, 01:17:20 AM: So what's wrong with Wanda Toscanini? Nice gruff sense of humour. Very deep love in both their eyes, regardless of the sexuality. Not a fish in sight. Long live Wanda!
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: pianolist on September 11, 2006, 02:19:30 AM: By the way, here's our boy recording a Welte-Mignon piano roll.

(https://www.pianola.org/pianostreet/horowitz.jpg)
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: lostinidlewonder on September 22, 2006, 03:39:25 AM: I always found that quote by Horowitz really shallow. What happens if I am a bad Jewish gay pianist, I am sure there are many there.
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: brewtality on September 22, 2006, 11:05:51 AM: Quote from: lostinidlewonder on September 22, 2006, 03:39:25 AM
I always found that quote by Horowitz really shallow. What happens if I am a bad Jewish gay pianist, I am sure there are many there.

oh come now, it's just a joke!
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: andyd on September 22, 2006, 12:00:13 PM: Anyone know what year Horowitz said this?

Andy
Title: Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Post by: hodi on September 24, 2006, 12:37:20 PM: i'm israeli jewish :)