Piano Forum
Piano Board => Repertoire => Topic started by: ryguillian on August 11, 2006, 08:45:34 PM
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(https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/johnnyheartbeat/stuff%20for%20ryan/adventuresofsorabji3.png)
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loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
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hah, id read that comic. it would probably be about 250 pages long and take 4.5 hours to read probably.
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ryguillian, you're funny....
I would love to read this comic book.
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Hopefully the comic would not be as creepy as the pictures on that photobucket account. :o
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teh drawings were pretty dam.n good but those headshots were indeed creepy.
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(https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/johnnyheartbeat/stuff%20for%20ryan/iancurtis2.png)
Uh yeah... this is just a little creepy.
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That picture that you've posted above (Nightscape) is of Ian Curtis, the late lead singer of Joy Division. Pretty interesting musician.
--Ryan
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Was the picture taken posthumously?
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Was the picture taken posthumously?
No, here's the original:
(https://www.aputadasubjectividade.net/colunas/Pina%20and%20The%20Top%20Ten/Semana%2002%20Ian%20Curtis.jpg)
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Yea, if the book was written by Sorabji, it'd just be random ink spills, disjointed random figures, a few words and letters for 250 pages.
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Yea, if the book was written by Sorabji, it'd just be random ink spills, disjointed random figures, a few words and letters for 250 pages.
You are so funny! I just love the way you combine your misconceptions and lack of knowledge about a fantastic piece into a general assumption about Sorabjis work, and then apply it to this joke about a comic-book, supposedly written by the composer! You are a true comedic genius!
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Yea, if the book was written by Sorabji, it'd just be random ink spills, disjointed random figures, a few words and letters for 250 pages.
But if you get into polyphonic structure of that comic book, you will see that is truly amazing and very well-structured. ;D
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But if you get into polyphonic structure of that comic book, you will see that is truly amazing and very well-structured. ;D
But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?
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But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?
it may be oddsounding to you, but if you were able to comprehend it, you would notice that it is not oddsounding and you would forget about "good" bach fugues. this piece is a bach fugue to the nth power. lets just forget the debate about whether sorabji sucks or not. the nay sayers will always lose. we have a sorabji expert on our side. case closed.
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But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?
"Hey, let's get into an endless argument about our musical tastes!"
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But why listen to oddsounding polyphony when you have many good Bach Fugues?
Because Sorabji is not Bach? I mean, you could just as well say: "Why listen to plain Bach fugues when you can listen to odd Sorabji ones?"
Or any other fugue composer.
Also, I don't think there are any people that enjoy Sorabji fugues but that don't like Bach fugues as well. So then the question is "Why not limit yourself just to Bach?" which is obviously a silly question.
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Then can you please explain how to appreciate Sorabji? I haven't managed to develop a liking if it yet.
Best wishes.
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Well, have you had any succes explaining someone that did not like Bach to appreciate Bach?
If you are really interested in liking Sorabji, or any other composer, which you do not like yet then you have to learn how to be able to like something. Now this is a real skill that you need to learn. With music it is about connecting, understanding, finding, that what you can like and appreciate.
I cannot answer these questions for you. I do not know what you like in music. Also, you may not be ready yet for Sorabji. For example, if you don't lilke Bach or Scriabin then I think you are not ready for Sorabji.
So if you are ready for Sorabji right now then you need to pick the correct piece to start with. For example, Sorabji wrote impressionstic pieces like Gulistan. He wrote a piece like Sonata No.1 which I find hard to describe. And then you also have Toccata No.1, a piece in the style of OC that builds on Busoni's fantasia contrappuntistica. Other people prefer shorter pieces.
And then you have to be patient. You both need to try to find and hear that what you want to hear and just ignore your own preference and try to find the music's own merit.
So questions like these, regardless of the composer, are important but hard to answer.
But don't you think this sounds nice: https://80.56.36.253:200/Sorabji%20Preludio-corale.mp3 ?
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So... it's Doc OC vs. Doc Bach?
(https://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e220/notturno/Dococ.jpg)
Doctor Octopus "Doc Oc"
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But don't you think this sounds nice: https://212.187.69.100:200/Sorabji%20Preludio-corale.mp3 ?
RANDOM NOTES GARBAGE INK SPILLED ON SHEETS NO STRUCTURE NOT MUSIC
::) ;D
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Greetings.
That was marvelous. Very beautiful. It greatly reminds me of Bach material and is polyphonic. What piece is it?
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That was marvelous. Very beautiful. It greatly reminds me of Bach material and is polyphonic. What piece is it?
i believe it is from the preludio-chorale from opus clavicembalisticum. i have to check over my score to be sure.
EDIT: nope, the toccata no. 1. no wonder why i couldnt find it. it also sounded a lot cleaner than odgon's or madge's recording of OC.
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it's a segment from the Preludio Chorale from Toccata No.1 recorded by Powell.
I would reccommend this if you are interested in 'Bach'-like Sorabji. The piece is very much like the OC, which also exists out of baroque forms. But the recording is much much much better than Odgen's OC recording. Also, it is a lot shorter, but still one hour and 15 minutes long.
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for virtuoso-type sorabji pieces that arent as bach-ish, look into teh solo concerto, OC (obviously), and sonata no.1. those are my favorites. for nocturne-like pieces, look into gulistan (the rose garden), le jardin parfumé, djami, and the pastiche on the hindu merchant's song from rimsky-korsakov's "sadko" (hamelin recorded this). once you really explore sorabji, you will begin to see the beauty and awesome craftsmanship in his music.
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for virtuoso-type sorabji pieces that arent as bach-ish, look into teh solo concerto, OC (obviously), and sonata no.1. those are my favorites. for nocturne-like pieces, look into gulistan (the rose garden), le jardin parfumé, djami, and the pastiche on the hindu merchant's song from rimsky-korsakov's "sadko" (hamelin recorded this). once you really explore sorabji, you will begin to see the beauty and awesome craftsmanship in his music.
I do really enjoy Sorabji's music, even though I haven't listened to that much of his work. I was particularly impressed by his 100 Transcendental Etudes by Ullen, whom I have listened to on the internet. I think number 26 was the one that particularly struck me on the first hear. Nucturne like, very evocative and very beautiful. What is this nonesense about "random" notes running about. Sorabji's notes are anything but random. Would the carefully crafted passacaglia from the 100 Transcendental etudes be possible with random notes. It's a variation based on every other etude I think, a sort of reminiscence.
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I think the way people react to Sorabji tells something about the nature of people. It learns you that you must be careful not to fall into the same 'trap' on a different subject.
People can be very reactionary and irrational. People can be very biased and have very strong opinions on something without really knowing what they are talking about. So one must be very careful. Because, we are all human and it is part of human nature.
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You are right Prometheus, people are sometimes prim and not openminded. Part of it is taste. Different people have a predilection to different kinds of music. I do believe that one of the reasons people pass harsh judgement on Classical music in general, is because of not enough knowledge about the art. The case of Sorabji is very similar, in that not enough is known about the music and people have an instant aversion to it. Take Bach for example. A fugue, or any polyphonous work, has the intertwining of voices, counterpoint, etc, etc. On the first listen it is very hard to grasp the beauty of it, but once scrutinized, the most beautiful reveals itself. That is the way I feel about Bach. He is one of my most favourite composers and I can see a direct relationship between Bach's polyphony(or polyphony in general) and the section of the piece by Sorabji. I bet that if the work became undestood, it wouldn't be passed off as "random" notes.
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Concerning irrational reactions, I don't think that the reaction is as much irrational as it is rational. People are afraid of the unknown, hence showing strong dislike or even fear to a certain extent, hense the imboglio concerning Sorabji's music on this forum.
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Well, the point was that people generally think of themselves and other as rational creatures. But humans are very very irrational. Even I may seem like a rational person, actually I am quite rational compared to most. But I can say that most of the most impotant decisions in life I have taking irrationally.
As for taste. I really believe that taste is a form of unpreventable close mindedness or preconception. Therefore it is viewed as innocent. This eventhough it is true that some people generally react better to some kinds of music compared to others. For example, feral childs, that do not speak any language and have never heard any kind of music before prefer some kinds of music above others.
Of course this is still pretty innocent. Unless you are either a professional musician or a very serious amateur musician.
And do understand that I amtalking about about genre, not about quality. Clearly there is music of lesser quality and one should be free to ignore it. But when you are a dedicated musician you can't really to give up on some music just because you feel it is outside of your taste.
I think that listening to music is still for a large part culturally. For example listen to this:
https://212.187.69.100:200/music/ustad%20sabri%20khan%20-%2002%20-%20darbari%20-%20jhala.mp3
How does this sound to the average western ear brought up on classical and pop music? How would you describe this?
And this stuff goes on for a whole CD, a whole concert. But this is how some of the stereotype/mainstream indian classical music sounds like.
The instrument is the sarangi. Very interesting instrument.
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Toccata No. 1, Jonathan Powell
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=IG4Q0L79
The complete recording.
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sorabji would own you all if he was a top trumps card
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Well, the point was that people generally think of themselves and other as rational creatures. But humans are very very irrational. Even I may seem like a rational person, actually I am quite rational compared to most. But I can say that most of the most impotant decisions in life I have taking irrationally.
As for taste. I really believe that taste is a form of unpreventable close mindedness or preconception. Therefore it is viewed as innocent. This eventhough it is true that some people generally react better to some kinds of music compared to others. For example, feral childs, that do not speak any language and have never heard any kind of music before prefer some kinds of music above others.
Of course this is still pretty innocent. Unless you are either a professional musician or a very serious amateur musician.
And do understand that I amtalking about about genre, not about quality. Clearly there is music of lesser quality and one should be free to ignore it. But when you are a dedicated musician you can't really to give up on some music just because you feel it is outside of your taste.
I think that listening to music is still for a large part culturally. For example listen to this:
https://212.187.69.100:200/music/ustad%20sabri%20khan%20-%2002%20-%20darbari%20-%20jhala.mp3
How does this sound to the average western ear brought up on classical and pop music? How would you describe this?
And this stuff goes on for a whole CD, a whole concert. But this is how some of the stereotype/mainstream indian classical music sounds like.
The instrument is the sarangi. Very interesting instrument.
I do enjoy indian classical music. It is very inventive in rhythm and melodic invention, and is based upon improvisation on a rage, which would be like a sort of scale. This music is very reflective and deep, even though it lacks harmony. Do you by any chance have an excerpt of Javanese gamelan music by any chance>
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lulz i forgot about this.
BUMP
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Other versions were made as well...
(https://216.86.147.16/missingheritage.png)
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This bumping of the thread just goes to show, does it not, that what appeared to make some children amused a couple of years ago still does so today; what that says for the maturity process for the said children is presumably open to debate, if anyone has nothing better to do than debate it.
Best,
Alistair
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Toccata No. 1, Jonathan Powell
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=IG4Q0L79
The complete recording.
Thanks a lot. The more people do this, the less likely I am to record Sorabji ever again.
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This bumping of the thread just goes to show, does it not, that what appeared to make some children amused a couple of years ago still does so today; what that says for the maturity process for the said children is presumably open to debate, if anyone has nothing better to do than debate it.
Best,
Alistair
And your response just goes to show that what pissed off some crotchety Scotchman two years ago still pisses him off today... Arrested development looks himself in the face? :)
B.,
Ry................................
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And your response just goes to show that what pissed off some crotchety Scotchman two years ago still pisses him off today... Arrested development looks himself in the face? :)
I wouldn't know, in either case. In the first instance, you omit to identify either the particular compatriot of mine to whom you refer or the relevance to him of crotchets (quarter-notes to you); however, I can confirm that it doesn't at all "piss off" this particular Scotsman, since it's of insufficient significance to be capable of doing so, hence my remark and the deliberately generalised, rather than personalised, way in which I phrased it, both of which still stand. As to the second instance, I remain unaware of anyone having been arrested for posting this stuff, but if you want to examine the kind of development to which you refer here, I can do no better than recommend that you use the nearest mirror.
Best,
Alistair
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Thanks a lot. The more people do this, the less likely I am to record Sorabji ever again.
I am very sorry that people do this kind of thing without appropriate authorisation, especially when all people have to do in order to be able to listen to any of your Sorabji recordings as and when they wish to do so is GO AND BUY THEM.
That said, may I make a heartfelt plea on behalf of all those who care about Sorabji's music that, notwithstanding this sort of activity, you allow nothing ever to get in the way of any plans you may have now or at any time in the future to record more of the composer's work!
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At least that link to the Sorabji recording is down, so it cannot be downloaded anymore. I personally really enjoy your work, Mr. Powell, and will continue to buy your CDs, in the hope of you producing more in the future. At least one positive thing can be gained out of this, which is that you certainly do have an audience for your work.
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At least that link to the Sorabji recording is down, so it cannot be downloaded anymore. I personally really enjoy your work, Mr. Powell, and will continue to buy your CDs, in the hope of you producing more in the future. At least one positive thing can be gained out of this, which is that you certainly do have an audience for your work.
That said...
[redacted URL]
Best,
Ry.
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At least that link to the Sorabji recording is down, so it cannot be downloaded anymore. I personally really enjoy your work, Mr. Powell, and will continue to buy your CDs, in the hope of you producing more in the future. At least one positive thing can be gained out of this, which is that you certainly do have an audience for your work.
Yeah, don't let the bottom-feeding mass-sharing internet insects influence your work as a recording artist. I've ordered all of your Sorabji discs from Altarus (some I got secondhand on Amazon :-\) in the past and I certainly look forward to whatever may come next ( ahem.... definitely consider working out Sonata 5 or Sequencia someday!!!!). File-sharing is the inevitable downside to the wide and unprecedented publicity that can be gained via the world-wide-web. I've definitely downloaded a few things in the past, but I stick to out-of-print things that nobody has bothered putting on Itunes or Emusic.
The suggested attitude that comes part and parcel with jerkoff high school/college students who feel entitled to sharing anything and everything that exists in the recorded world makes me tremble for how coming musical generations will be able to relate with recordings. Without pontificating too much, it just reeks of that good old sense of entitlement and bratty self-obsession that is sucking the spirit out music as a whole. I recently read some high-school jazz prick's essay about how recorded music should be completely free, with a whole bunch of pedantic philosophical points and asinine bullshit to boot. He should have just been honest and said something along the lines of, "Music should be free because I don't have any money, because I don't work enough and I maxxed my credit card out gassing up the SUV my parents gave me. I used my Christmas money to buy a Nintendo WII and a new Ipod for all my illegal downloads. I'm eating out at Friday's too much, buying too much alcohol, and buying too many pieces of computer hardware, so I can't afford to buy a copy of 8-cd John Coltrane box set on Amazon. I don't own any Coltrane CDs, but some bittorrent user told me it was available so I have to have it!!! ALL OF IT! Once I have it, I can share it with others and get props and smileys on the forum I use!!! That wll B awsum!!! Oh yeah, and that's why music should be free."
I'm glad that I live near one of the only good used CD stores left in the U.S. because nothing feels better then picking up a new disc and carefulling listening to it on the headphones back at the house. Certainly a lot more fun than buying terabyte after terabyte and ripping DVD after DVD to make sure that nothing goes wrong with your complete Bach, complete Mozart, and 9,000 gigs of complete piano music playlists. Bunch of f**king squirrels. Some of the people on Gamingforce and the blogosphere really need to get outside some more, like real squirrels.
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Yeah, don't let the bottom-feeding mass-sharing internet insects influence your work as a recording artist. I've ordered all of your Sorabji discs from Altarus (some I got secondhand on Amazon :-\) in the past and I certainly look forward to whatever may come next ( ahem.... definitely consider working out Sonata 5 or Sequencia someday!!!!). File-sharing is the inevitable downside to the wide and unprecedented publicity that can be gained via the world-wide-web. I've definitely downloaded a few things in the past, but I stick to out-of-print things that nobody has bothered putting on Itunes or Emusic.
The suggested attitude that comes part and parcel with jerkoff high school/college students who feel entitled to sharing anything and everything that exists in the recorded world makes me tremble for how coming musical generations will be able to relate with recordings. Without pontificating too much, it just reeks of that good old sense of entitlement and bratty self-obsession that is sucking the spirit out music as a whole. I recently read some high-school jazz prick's essay about how recorded music should be completely free, with a whole bunch of pedantic philosophical points and asinine bullshit to boot. He should have just been honest and said something along the lines of, "Music should be free because I don't have any money, because I don't work enough and I maxxed my credit card out gassing up the SUV my parents gave me. I used my Christmas money to buy a Nintendo WII and a new Ipod for all my illegal downloads. I'm eating out at Friday's too much, buying too much alcohol, and buying too many pieces of computer hardware, so I can't afford to buy a copy of 8-cd John Coltrane box set on Amazon. I don't own any Coltrane CDs, but some bittorrent user told me it was available so I have to have it!!! ALL OF IT! Once I have it, I can share it with others and get props and smileys on the forum I use!!! That wll B awsum!!! Oh yeah, and that's why music should be free."
I'm glad that I live near one of the only good used CD stores left in the U.S. because nothing feels better then picking up a new disc and carefulling listening to it on the headphones back at the house. Certainly a lot more fun than buying terabyte after terabyte and ripping DVD after DVD to make sure that nothing goes wrong with your complete Bach, complete Mozart, and 9,000 gigs of complete piano music playlists. Bunch of f**king squirrels. Some of the people on Gamingforce and the blogosphere really need to get outside some more, like real squirrels.
What a patronizing shitpost.
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a
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Thanks a lot. The more people do this, the less likely I am to record Sorabji ever again.
I for one hope that is not the case.
I must admit though to being mystified why you have never really spoken out against the not inconsiderable amount of your recordings that have been posted on Gamingforce. You are a member there and have even made requests yourself, but i do not recall you requesting your work to be removed. If this has been done privately to the moderators, it has obviously not worked.
If my work was being pirated like this, i would be on the warpath.
Thal
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I for one hope that is not the case.
I must admit though to being mystified why you have never really spoken out against the not inconsiderable amount of your recordings that have been posted on Gamingforce. You are a member there and have even made requests yourself, but i do not recall you requesting your work to be removed. If this has been done privately to the moderators, it has obviously not worked.
If my work was being pirated like this, i would be on the warpath.
Thal, I sympathise entirely with what you are saying here but, as you have seen above (and probably knew anyway), there are people out there whose respect for the fantastic devotion and immense hard work of certain performing artists barely exists because they (those people, not the artists) seem to think that their self-appointed divine right to have whatever they want free just when, why and how they want it overrides any other consideration. What they do not realise is that, if composers and performers didn't do what they do irrespective of their pety desires, they would have no material to which they'd feel they have this right.
I hold less than no brief for piracy of this kind, distressingly commonplace though it is; it seems obvious that the vast amounts of resources of pianistic, emotional and intellectual energies given by the performers and those of money, time, technical expertise and the rest input by record companies count for very little as long as those who wish to obtain pirated copies of whatever happens to take their fancy remains up for grabs - an astonishingly insulting and at the same time hopelessly impractical and destructive attitude.
Just think about this; composers might do so and think "why compose?" and performers "why perform?" if their respective efforts are to be treated in this manner.
A word for Jonathan Powell; ignore all these pathetic little babies and get back to the keyboard where you belong and at which you must continue to do you work!
DID YOU HEAR ME??!!
Best,
Alistair
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[T]here are people out there whose respect for the fantastic devotion and immense hard work of certain performing artists barely exists because they (those people, not the artists) seem to think that their self-appointed divine right to have whatever they want free just when, why and how they want it overrides any other consideration.
I never have respect for fantastic devotion; in fact, it scares me to death.
I've given far too much money to the "casusa de la Sorabji" so I'm trying to set the score (ha!) straight like I promised I would when I got banned from the Sorabji Forum (the forum, ironically that I originally started). I will, and have stated, do everything in my power to end performances, sales, etc. of Sorabji propaganda.
Best,
RYGUILLIAN
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I never have respect for fantastic devotion; in fact, it scares me to death.
Really? That seems to sit rather oddly with what you write below, to which my reponse is attached.
I've given far too much money to the "casusa de la Sorabji"
Leaving aside that I have less than no idea what a "casusa" may be, I reseve my view that I am unaare that you have given "far too much money" to it, whatever it may be but I nevertheless invite you to detail to what you may have given money and how much you have given, so that we can all assess the validity or othewise of whatever contention it may be that you are trying to make.
so I'm trying to set the score (ha!) straight like I promised I would when I got banned from the Sorabji Forum (the forum, ironically that I originally started).
The forum that you started is not the one from which you got yourself banned. I applauded your enterprise and efforts in starting the forum that you did (which was before the present one) and, despite your subsequent behaviour, I still do; you were banned from the subsequenbt forum because of your wholly unacceptable behaviour which I regret far more than I would have done had you not tried to start a forum previously.
I will, and have stated, do everything in my power to end performances, sales, etc. of Sorabji propaganda.
Leaving aside the fact that you have no such power, I would have to ask (as I'm sure plenty of others would likewise do) why anyone who had once gone to the trouble that you did of starting a Sorabji forum would later want to do what you now say you do; your personal credibility is plummeting rapidly, but only through your own statements rather than as a consequence of anything that anyone might write in response thereto. No one here has anything to do with Sorabji "propaganda"; some of us here and elsewhere have nevertheless devoted immense amounts of time and energy to the Sorabji cause and will continue to do so regardless of what you say and write, so my advice to you is to espouse that cause as once you did or leave it alone and shut up.
Best,
Alistair
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Really? That seems to sit rather oddly with what you write below, to which my reponse is attached.
Leaving aside that I have less than no idea what a "casusa" may be, I reseve my view that I am unaare that you have given "far too much money" to it, whatever it may be but I nevertheless invite you to detail to what you may have given money and how much you have given, so that we can all assess the validity or othewise of whatever contention it may be that you are trying to make.
The forum that you started is not the one from which you got yourself banned. I applauded your enterprise and efforts in starting the forum that you did (which was before the present one) and, despite your subsequent behaviour, I still do; you were banned from the subsequenbt forum because of your wholly unacceptable behaviour which I regret far more than I would have done had you not tried to start a forum previously.
Leaving aside the fact that you have no such power, I would have to ask (as I'm sure plenty of others would likewise do) why anyone who had once gone to the trouble that you did of starting a Sorabji forum would later want to do what you now say you do; your personal credibility is plummeting rapidly, but only through your own statements rather than as a consequence of anything that anyone might write in response thereto. No one here has anything to do with Sorabji "propaganda"; some of us here and elsewhere have nevertheless devoted immense amounts of time and energy to the Sorabji cause and will continue to do so regardless of what you say and write, so my advice to you is to espouse that cause as once you did or leave it alone and shut up.
Best,
Alistair
Uh, I've bought scores (through you, so you should remember...) and also many, many CDs... not to mention the sweat I went through trying to get Powell to perform in Chicago... he totally ignore my e-mails wherein I asked him if he'd be interested in performing in the states... I had already talked to various people at the University of Chicago about having him perform, etc. since that was also the sight of another Sorabji performance (O. c. by Madge in, I believe 1988).
The power I have? Well, Powell just stated above that the more people post his stuff online the less likely it'll be that he'll record Sorabji's works... so... that's obviously a weakness right there. :)
YAY!
Ryan.
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I never have respect for fantastic devotion; in fact, it scares me to death.
I've given far too much money to the "casusa de la Sorabji" so I'm trying to set the score (ha!) straight like I promised I would when I got banned from the Sorabji Forum (the forum, ironically that I originally started). I will, and have stated, do everything in my power to end performances, sales, etc. of Sorabji propaganda.
Best,
RYGUILLIAN
My post may be patronizing and stodgy, but your past few contributions are just seesawing between bitchiness and douchebaggery (to use Pies's term from another thread). Why reopen a thread if all you want to do is play stupid games.
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My post may be patronizing and stodgy, but your past few contributions are just seesawing between bitchiness and douchebaggery (to use Pies's term from another thread). Why reopen a thread if all you want to do is play stupid games.
Never ask me for a score again you stupid bastard.
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Never ask me for a score again you stupid bastard.
Now now now, let's not get too sensitive :o
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a
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Meaning no disrespect to anyone, I admit to being somewhat confused about some of the responses to this thread regarding sharing of recordings. On this thread (https://www.gamingforce.org/forums/musician-s-library/10291-sorabji-recordings-archive-thread.html) the attitudes of all the members (most notably Jonathan Powell and indutrial) seem to be a lot different than this thread suggests. I am in no way condoning illegal activities, especially at the expense of hard-working artists and performers, but don't the views expressed in that thread and this one seem slightly inconsistent?
Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone who has posted here, as I realize views can change, and I can completely understand the frustration on the part of Jonathan Powell knowing the amount of effort he invests in learning this monstrously difficult music.
Mr. Powell -- you are an outstanding pianist, one of the finest I know of. I own four of your Sorabji CDs, and intend on buying all of your future releases. Please know that there are MANY of us out here who will continue to support you in your endeavor to bring exquisite music to a wider audience. To think that anything like this could prevent you from continuing to do so is a horrifying thought. At least most of the recordings that were at one point available for free have expired. So keep the new ones coming! :)
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Meaning no disrespect to anyone, I admit to being somewhat confused about some of the responses to this thread regarding sharing of recordings. On this thread (https://www.gamingforce.org/forums/musician-s-library/10291-sorabji-recordings-archive-thread.html) the attitudes of all the members (most notably Jonathan Powell and indutrial) seem to be a lot different than this thread suggests. I am in no way condoning illegal activities, especially at the expense of hard-working artists and performers, but don't the views expressed in that thread and this one seem slightly inconsistent?
I'll admit that I tried to get somebody to post a link to one of those discs a few years back. I had already owned the Charles Hopkins recording of Gulistan and I wanted to hear Powell's newer one. I admitted to the fact that I dabbled in downloading and sharing a lot more in the past. I still don't really have too much of a problem with people sharing a disc here or there, but it should done with a bit more delicacy. For instance, the most recent post of that very thread is a little annoying because the user is asking for somebody to post a Sorabji recording that came out only a few months ago. That's a bit too soon and it's a lot different than my recent requests on that site for OOP discs from the Olympia label and barely-extant recordings of the Milhaud string quartets. Those are either wholly unavailable or only sold by used dealers on Amazon who charge extortionary rates ($50 for an unwrapped CD, no thanks!) My regrettable 'Gulistan' request was unfulfilled and I ended up buying it from Records International.
I don't quite see how Jonathan's views are any different at all. He offered recordings of his own there, but all of them were self-produced recital recordings from his own collection, not the discs that he's put out through Altarus. In fact, he made a few comments on that thread suggesting that people actually buy copies of his Sonata 4 disc set instead of stealing it off the thread. Thankfully, after he turned up in his own defense, people stopped being so blatant about it.
My more extreme views as of late are directed more towards people who I commit the heinous act of sharing for the sake of sharing, which is far worse in places outside of GFF (though some are there too). The worst culprits of this mindless and robotic crusade are sites like avaxhome.ru and other blogs out there that post massive amounts of music to no discernable end, almost always in lossless formats. To me, it's abusive and out-of-control, and while I'm not in anyway in favor of bullshittery like the RIAA and people who abuse copyright laws for profit (UNIVERSAL EDITION!!!), I think that more responsibility and better ethics could be employed by the people posting (who seem to just post constantly). There are some great blogs that I've cited here on other threads that take a much more measured approach to the idea of sharing and disseminating recordings (i.e. focusing on OOP recordings, rarities, vinyl-rips of discs that never made it to CD).
Now stop stalking my posts on GFF or eventually you might happen upon my less-than-tasteful contributions in the Sewers subforum ;D
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Good to see some common sense and decency on this thread. Yes, Ryan has purchased the occasional score from us in the past and if he has made efforts to secure performances of Sorabji's works, then all power to him. So why would he now write as he does? - and why would he welcome less rather than more new Sorabji recordings? If that's not inconsistent, I don't know what inconsistency is. Ryan also managed to get himself banned from the Sorabji forum - the only member ever to have done so.
The fact that recordings and sc ores are being pirated does not reduce the legitimate demand for them; in fact, whilst I am dead against such activity, the very fact that it takes place at all demonstrates that people actually want this music, so more and more people will and do acquire it legally. What does that say for Ryan's "power" to curtail Sorabjian activity? Thirty years ago, there were no recordings of Sorabji's music, the few published works of his were going out of print and there were no new editions of his scores other than one of the Trois Pastiches. There's plenty more work to be done, of course, but a brief glance at the catalogue of works on the Sorabji website at www.sorabji-archive.co.uk shows just how much has been achieved already and there is a great deal more in the pipeline.
I very much appreciate the support that has been expressed for Jonathan Powell here and can assure him - if he needs such assurance - that he need take no notice of the few noisemakers around these parts; Sorabji himself used to quote Pope's
But let me flap this bug with gilded wings
This painted child of dirt that stinks and stings.
and he once went farther by adding, in his own words,
Insects that are merely noisome like to think that they can also sting.
Seems appropriate here, methinks...
Best,
Alistair
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On the record piracy issue, I wish to remind anyone that has any doubt about it that almost every Altarus CD that's ever been produced is still available today, so the issue of "sharing" OOP Altarus discs simply isn't an issue; since many of the recordings of Sorabji are on that label, this is surely of no small relevance.
Best,
Alistair
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Now stop stalking my posts on GFF or eventually you might happen upon my less-than-tasteful contributions in the Sewers subforum ;D
Haha, your posts are fun to stalk. Mine on the other hand are just pathetic most of the time.
Alistair, I have a question. Why does it take so long for new releases on Altarus to come out on Amazon? Is there anywhere else to get them, besides directly from you? I plan on getting that Sorabji disk with Un Nido di Scatole and the new Feinberg disk, maybe.
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Alistair, I have a question. Why does it take so long for new releases on Altarus to come out on Amazon? Is there anywhere else to get them, besides directly from you?
That's two questions! The answer to the first is that I have no idea and that to the second is Records International or any decent classical CD retailer (who may not necessarily stock them but can easily order them).
Best,
Alistair
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Haha, your posts are fun to stalk. Mine on the other hand are just pathetic most of the time.
Alistair, I have a question. Why does it take so long for new releases on Altarus to come out on Amazon? Is there anywhere else to get them, besides directly from you? I plan on getting that Sorabji disk with Un Nido di Scatole and the new Feinberg disk, maybe.
Just order the Altarus discs from Records International over the phone. The guy who runs that business is incredibly nice and really on top of his game when it comes to esoteric classical records - a businessman worth patronizing again and again!!! He's helped me get some great discs from overseas without any headaches or wild shipping costs. Besides, he always has the Altarus discs before everybody else. Amazon is good if you want to get a used copy and save a little $$$.
P.S. you'll wish you never stalked my posts when you find the one about 'toilet backloggery' (probably one of the best topic titles ever)
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The fact that recordings and sc ores are being pirated does not reduce the legitimate demand for them;
But it could certainly reduce the legitimate supply for them. :)
B.,
Ry.
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That's two questions! The answer to the first is that I have no idea and that to the second is Records International or any decent classical CD retailer (who may not necessarily stock them but can easily order them).
Best,
Alistair
I have another question. What the hell happened to Tellef Johnson's recording of Sonata no. 3?
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On the record piracy issue, I wish to remind anyone that has any doubt about it that almost every Altarus CD that's ever been produced is still available today, so the issue of "sharing" OOP Altarus discs simply isn't an issue; since many of the recordings of Sorabji are on that label, this is surely of no small relevance.
Best,
Alistair
What about the Hamelin/Sophie-Carmen Eckhardt-Gramatte set? ????? ??????????????????
Here's why piracy is good: one can buy a CD and rip it thus allowing other people to acquire the music without buying the media. So instead of 100 people buying a CD maybe 1 person will... so now we have a lot of money left over to do other things with it. Thus, with sharing, everybody is better off (but maybe a few people [artists, etc.] aren't as good off as they could be, but I tend to side with the other people. :) If the artists aren't satisfied they're more than welcome to find other work.
Best,
Ryan.
Ryan.
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I have another question. What the hell happened to Tellef Johnson's recording of Sonata no. 3?
Tellef saw the light.
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But it could certainly reduce the legitimate supply for them. :)
I have no idea on what basis you make that assumption, but I can assure you that, in practice, it doesn't do anything of the sort, at least in our experience (and I doubt that we're any exception here); we supply more now than ever we did (in part, of course, because the increasing number of editions and recordings mean that there are more items to supply).
It's always better to make assumptions based upon factual experience.
Best,
Alistair
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I have another question. What the hell happened to Tellef Johnson's recording of Sonata no. 3?
I don't know.
Best,
Alistair
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Tellef saw the light.
Leaving aside whether or not this remark is supposed to convey the notion that Tellef Johnson has gone all religious, are you telling us something that you know from Mr Johnson himself or is this just another of your unfounded and unresearched assumptions?
Best,
Alistair
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What about the Hamelin/Sophie-Carmen Eckhardt-Gramatte set? ????? ??????????????????
That, I believe, is the only Altarus CD that has not been reissued, although I am in no position to tell you why that is.
Here's why piracy is good: one can buy a CD and rip it thus allowing other people to acquire the music without buying the media. So instead of 100 people buying a CD maybe 1 person will... so now we have a lot of money left over to do other things with it. Thus, with sharing, everybody is better off (but maybe a few people [artists, etc.] aren't as good off as they could be, but I tend to side with the other people. :) If the artists aren't satisfied they're more than welcome to find other work.
Good for whom? Were there to be sufficient piracy to cause havoc in the legitimate recording industry, what would be the end result? Record companies who make the kind of thing that you might want to steal will go to the wall, following which the product will not be there to be ripped in the first place. The same applies to the artists that you patronise with your comment here - if they did all go and find other work, they'd not be providing the material that you and others want. So who'd benefit from that? No one, of course. Your short-sightedness is quite remarkable. There's always someone who wants something for nothing, of course and, for such people, the cost of provision of what they want to steal is entirely immaterial. Have you any idea of the cost of producing some of the kinds of things that you want to "share"v(which, in this conext, is merely a convenient euphemism for "steal")? If you do, you'd surely realise that if those who outlay those costs cannot get them back and make a profit, you'll no longer get what you want.
Ryan.
Ryan.
One's enough; we heard you the first time...
Best,
Alistair
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That, I believe, is the only Altarus CD that has not been reissued, although I am in no position to tell you why that is.
Good for whom? Were there to be sufficient piracy to cause havoc in the legitimate recording industry, what would be the end result? Record companies who make the kind of thing that you might want to steal will go to the wall, following which the product will not be there to be ripped in the first place. The same applies to the artists that you patronise with your comment here - if they did all go and find other work, they'd not be providing the material that you and others want. So who'd benefit from that? No one, of course. Your short-sightedness is quite remarkable. There's always someone who wants something for nothing, of course and, for such people, the cost of provision of what they want to steal is entirely immaterial. Have you any idea of the cost of producing some of the kinds of things that you want to "share"v(which, in this conext, is merely a convenient erphemism for "steal")? If you do, you'd surely realise that if those who outlay those costs cannot get them back and make a profit, you'll no longer get what you want.
One's enough; we heard you the first time...
Best,
AListair
Alistair doesn't know the difference between stealing and copying... you're one of those people who equates sharing with attacking ships...
Jackass.
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Alistair doesn't know the difference between stealing and copying... you're one of those people who equates sharing with attacking ships...
Or so you say. I have never attacked a ship in my life. Even if I had, I would find it very difficult if not impossible to equate that activity with sharing anything, even illicit copies of scores, recordings and the like. Stealing - or misappropriation, if you'd prefer a longer word - is taking something (in these instances scores and recordings) without paying for it and without legal authorisation. It's quite simple, really - artists have copyright in their performances, record companies in their recordings and composers in the work that they write, not just because the law says so but because they are the ones that have expended the necessary energy, time and money in what they have done. When someone comes along and copies (and perhaps also then distributes) such work without due permission or payment, they have stolen what does not belong to them - simple as that. I note - as I'm quite sure others do also - that your remarks on this subject carefully ignore mine earlier about what goes into producing the kinds of things that you and others may want. There's no such thing as a free lunch (CD, score or whatever), in the sense that these things cannot be produced for free. If that is not crystal clear to everyone, I'd be amazed; if you personally choose not to accept it, that's quite a different matter.
Best,
Alistair
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Alistair doesn't know the difference between stealing and copying... you're one of those people who equates sharing with attacking ships...
Jackass.
These semantic games are just so DAMNED LAME!!!!
Where is any of this Mickey Mouse cockbarf and schoolyard instigating headed?!? I think you just like making Alastair type a lot ::) I wish he would stop dignifying this performance of yours for his own time's sake.
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These semantic games are just so DAMNED LAME!!!!
Where is any of this Mickey Mouse cockbarf and schoolyard instigating headed?!? I think you just like making Alastair type a lot ::) I wish he would stop dignifying this performance of yours for his own time's sake.
I guess you're right - there's no point in trying to explain anything rationally to anyone who writes as - well, some people do; perhaps I should instead just go and attack a ship (although I wouldn't even want to do that with so much as a bottle of champagne, as is so often done in this country when a ship is launched for the first time - I'm no great fan of champagne but I hate to see the stuff wasted on the side of a seagoing craft).
In accepting your point, I might add that I'm not so sure that you should be dignifying this particular contributor's posts with the term "performance", but...
Best,
Alistair
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a
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End the bickering and bring Powell to Chicago.
Don't look at me - I'm not "bickering" with anyone - and I'd be as delighted as anyone for Jonathan Powell to be invited to play in Chicago.
Best,
Alistair
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End the bickering and bring Powell to Chicago.
I've cowardly deleted what I wrote... lool
Best, Ryan.
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I've cowardly deleted what I wrote... lool
Best, Ryan.
Good thing. It wasn't really funny.
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what'd he say? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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what'd he say? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
It wasn't memorable enough to quote verbatim, something about Powell being banned from Chicago...
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It wasn't memorable enough to quote verbatim, something about Powell being banned from Chicago...
...in which case it would obviously be more notable for its absurdity than its memorability. I didn't see what he wrote, by the way, so I cannot comment more directly than that. What is equally obvious is that Mr Powell himself need take less than no notice of all this meaningless and ultimately self-defeating rubbish. He has, as I have observed elsewhere, made a very considerably greater contribution to the Sorabji cause than any other performer in history - not only OC but some 12-13 hours' worth of Sorabji's other piano works, as well as some excellent typeset editions - and he is currently preparing one of Sorabji's most important pieces of all (whose edition, which he himself began to prepare, is now being completed by Alexander Abercrombie, whose already existing typeset Sorabji editions are the fruit of immense labour - most of the 100 Transcendental Studies, Toccata Seconda, Il Grido del Gallino d'Oro, Piano Quintet No. 2 and a completion of the unfinished Passacaglia...). Add to all this activity the fact that another editor - David Carter - has prepared a typeset edition of the entire score of the Jami Symphony and the progress will surely be obvious to anyone.
If there's to be any serious discussion of Sorabji in this thread, I move for its title to be changed to something more obviously reflective of that...
Best,
Alistair
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If there's to be any serious discussion of Sorabji in this thread, I move for its title to be changed to something more obviously reflective of that...
Best,
Alistair
That reminds me. I wanted to ask if there'd been any status updates on the Sequencia Cyclia or Sonata no. 5 typesettings (let alone the huge Symphonic Variations). Those are the later Sorabji works that I'm most interested in checking out someday and I feel obliged to ask about every few months since I'll probably need a big head start for socking away the money for all of that potential copying.
I'm still saving money because I want to order Finnissy's History of Photography in Sound. That score comes in three volumes from an Oxford-related publisher and will definitely be pricy to ship to a Yankee like myself.
Thankfully, another long work I'd been interested in, Rzewski's The Road, was recently completely scanned in for free download at the Werner Icking archive. He'd been contributing his works to that archive for years and I almost messed myself when I learned that The Road (10 hour, 64-part monster piano work) became available for free.
Anyway, I look forward to any updates on the Sorabji front.
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That reminds me. I wanted to ask if there'd been any status updates on the Sequencia Cyclia or Sonata no. 5 typesettings (let alone the huge Symphonic Variations). Those are the later Sorabji works that I'm most interested in checking out someday and I feel obliged to ask about every few months since I'll probably need a big head start for socking away the money for all of that potential copying.
I'm still saving money because I want to order Finnissy's History of Photography in Sound. That score comes in three volumes from an Oxford-related publisher and will definitely be pricy to ship to a Yankee like myself.
Thankfully, another long work I'd been interested in, Rzewski's The Road, was recently completely scanned in for free download at the Werner Icking archive. He'd been contributing his works to that archive for years and I almost messed myself when I learned that The Road (10 hour, 64-part monster piano work) became available for free.
Anyway, I look forward to any updates on the Sorabji front.
I cannot give you any release dates at this point but I can confirm that editing of all three of these works is under way and that the first of them to achieve completion will almost certainly be Sequentia Cyclica; watch this space!
Best,
Alistair
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...in which case it would obviously be more notable for its absurdity than its memorability. I didn't see what he wrote, by the way, so I cannot comment more directly than that. What is equally obvious is that Mr Powell himself need take less than no notice of all this meaningless and ultimately self-defeating rubbish. He has, as I have observed elsewhere, made a very considerably greater contribution to the Sorabji cause than any other performer in history - not only OC but some 12-13 hours' worth of Sorabji's other piano works, as well as some excellent typeset editions - and he is currently preparing one of Sorabji's most important pieces of all (whose edition, which he himself began to prepare, is now being completed by Alexander Abercrombie, whose already existing typeset Sorabji editions are the fruit of immense labour - most of the 100 Transcendental Studies, Toccata Seconda, Il Grido del Gallino d'Oro, Piano Quintet No. 2 and a completion of the unfinished Passacaglia...). Add to all this activity the fact that another editor - David Carter - has prepared a typeset edition of the entire score of the Jami Symphony and the progress will surely be obvious to anyone.
If there's to be any serious discussion of Sorabji in this thread, I move for its title to be changed to something more obviously reflective of that...
Best,
Alistair
Why do you consider the Sequencia Cyclia one of Sorabji's most important works?
B., Ry.
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Why do you consider the Sequencia Cyclia one of Sorabji's most important works?
When you hear it (if you want to), you may well figure that out for yourself. In it, Sorabji took variation form to what was for him its peak, I would say - and it is curious that he should return to the Dies Iræ theme more than 20 years after writing another substantial (but very different) set of variations on it. The vast range of Sequentia Cyclica takes in a Passacaglia with 100 variations (this is just one of the 27 variations, so variations within variations here), a delicate movement entitled Quasi Debussy, a heavily Spanish-inflected piece (a kind of offshoot of the much earlier Fantaisie Espagnole and Fantasia Ispanica), a short Marcia Funebre and an elaborate and elegant concert waltz (whoever heard of turning the Dies Iræ into a waltz?!), among other things, culminating in the perhaps inevitable fugue, in this case a quintuple one in up to six voices, though not as long as some of his examples in this form. The variations vary in length enormously, some occupying a mere couple of pages or so. Anyway, the plan at present is that the theme and first ten variations will be performed by Jonathan Powell later this year at a semi-informal venue in London but I'm sorry to say that I cannot yet tell you when the entire piece will reach its première. When it does, it will be a shame to think that its dedicatee - the composer's friend Egon Petri - never got to hear it...
Best,
Alistair
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When you hear it (if you want to), you may well figure that out for yourself. In it, Sorabji took variation form to what was for him its peak, I would say - and it is curious that he should return to the Dies Iræ theme more than 20 years after writing another substantial (but very different) set of variations on it. The vast range of Sequentia Cyclica takes in a Passacaglia with 100 variations (this is just one of the 27 variations, so variations within variations here), a delicate movement entitled Quasi Debussy, a heavily Spanish-inflected piece (a kind of offshoot of the much earlier Fantaisie Espagnole and Fantasia Ispanica), a short Marcia Funebre and an elaborate and elegant concert waltz (whoever heard of turning the Dies Iræ into a waltz?!), among other things, culminating in the perhaps inevitable fugue, in this case a quintuple one in up to six voices, though not as long as some of his examples in this form. The variations vary in length enormously, some occupying a mere couple of pages or so. Anyway, the plan at present is that the theme and first ten variations will be performed by Jonathan Powell later this year at a semi-informal venue in London but I'm sorry to say that I cannot yet tell you when the entire piece will reach its première. When it does, it will be a shame to think that its dedicatee - the composer's friend Egon Petri - never got to hear it...
Best,
Alistair
Sounds pretty epic, even for Sorabji... what's the anticipate duration under J. P.'s hands?
B., Ry.
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Sounds pretty epic, even for Sorabji... what's the anticipate duration under J. P.'s hands?
I'm sorry to have to say that this is a difficult one to answer with any realibility at this stage; my own personal guess would be something in the order of 4½ hours, or maybe a little more, but don't hold me to that as it is really too soon to be certain.
Best,
Alistair