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Piano Board => Repertoire => Topic started by: mikey6 on December 02, 2006, 06:30:08 AM

Title: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mikey6 on December 02, 2006, 06:30:08 AM
I was thinking of a sort of fun history thread in which we can list the 1st tims something (say pedal markings, atonality etc.) was used and by whom.  And feel free to correct/contradict anyone ;)

Pedal marking - Haydn Sonata in C Hob.50
un-analysable chord - 'Tristan' chord (obvious, but it had to be included)
completly atonal work - Erwartung by Schoenberg
Complete serial work - 4 Etudes in Rhythm no. (don't remember) Messaien.

That's all I can think of at the moment - does anyone know when 'fff' was first used? Can't imagine it being in Baroque times and the classics didn't use it I don't think.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jre58591 on December 02, 2006, 06:58:23 AM
first piece with clusters used exclusively - dynamic motion by cowell
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jakev2.0 on December 02, 2006, 07:05:16 AM
I'm pretty sure the first piece where "clusters were used exclusively" was by the first toddler to came in contact with a keyboard.  ;)
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: ihatepop on December 02, 2006, 02:32:57 PM
first note played-the stone age

ihatepop
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mephisto on December 02, 2006, 03:21:59 PM
Isn't Boulez' 2nd Piano Sonata something like the first post-serialistic piece?


Jhon Cage 4,33: First piano piece without any notes.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mikey6 on December 02, 2006, 10:30:17 PM
first piece with clusters used exclusively - dynamic motion by cowell

I know Cowell used them throughout, but I heard of some Baroque piece where the harpsichordist has to slam his arm down on the keyboard - anyone know what it's called?
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jre58591 on December 03, 2006, 01:11:04 AM
I know Cowell used them throughout, but I heard of some Baroque piece where the harpsichordist has to slam his arm down on the keyboard - anyone know what it's called?
wow, are you sure this isnt a joke? that would bring my respect level up for baroque astronomically.

piece with the largest cluster - atmospheres by ligeti (about 5 octaves)
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: houseofblackleaves on December 03, 2006, 01:15:48 AM
Not sure, but most clusters repeated over... and over... and over....

Rzewski's Winsborro Cotton Mill Blues.

If not, oh well.  I love the peice anyways.


And was it Debussy or Ravel that would sit down and play the same passage over and over again for a couple hours? 
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: Etude on December 03, 2006, 01:18:39 AM
First piece to use the Prepared Piano - Cage's 'Bacchanale'  (I think).

First piece composed using 'Arborescences'  Xenakis - Evryali
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jre58591 on December 03, 2006, 01:56:20 AM
Not sure, but most clusters repeated over... and over... and over....

Rzewski's Winsborro Cotton Mill Blues.

If not, oh well.  I love the peice anyways.
actually, ornstein's danse sauvage has more clusters in a row. actually, almost thorughout the entire piece.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mikey6 on December 03, 2006, 06:39:07 AM
And was it Debussy or Ravel that would sit down and play the same passage over and over again for a couple hours? 
Are you sure you're not thinking of Satie's vexations? supposedly one pianist plays 2 8 bar passages for 800-odd times (I think the only single guy who ever attempted it started seeing demons by about the 500th time ;D)
Dunno what that could be classified as a first as though....
wow, are you sure this isnt a joke? that would bring my respect level up for baroque astronomically.
Nah, the composition teacher at uni told the class.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mikey6 on December 03, 2006, 09:29:48 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_cluster#_note-0

note 1 and the links explain a few interesting facts.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jre58591 on December 04, 2006, 12:05:44 AM
first aleatoric composition - hovhaness's piano concerto "lousadzak"
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: thalbergmad on December 04, 2006, 07:23:18 PM
1st singer in a String Quartet.

A Hinton

Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jre58591 on December 05, 2006, 12:58:14 AM
Complete serial work - 4 Etudes in Rhythm no. (don't remember) Messaien.
i checked my scores and found which messiaen etude you refer to. its titled "mode de valeurs et d'intensités". its probably my least favorite of that set.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: ahinton on December 05, 2006, 11:49:17 AM
1st singer in a String Quartet.

A Hinton
Thanks for the plug, Thal, but - dear me! - that's wrong on both counts. First of all, my string quartet (I've written only one so far) does not include a singer - you are thinking of my string QUINtet (which includes a soprano in its finale); secondly, there are numeous other examples of solo singers in works scored for - and actually entitled - "string quartet", of which a relatively recent one is Ferneyhough's Fourth Quartet and perhaps the most famous is Schönberg's Second Quartet which is now almost a century old...

Best,

Alistair

Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: ahinton on December 05, 2006, 11:50:48 AM
Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...

Best,

Alistair
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mikey6 on December 05, 2006, 11:14:01 PM
Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...

Best,

Alistair
Well...what are they?
Is the sax piece something by Bizet? That seems to ring a bell.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: franzliszt2 on December 06, 2006, 06:10:29 PM
For the opening comment, I must say that the Tristan chord can be analysed, and it was actually used by Beethoven in the Eb sonata op31 no???? 1 2 or 3, I forget, u know the one I mean though, the Eb major.


Bach well tempered clavier, first set of works to include all 24 keys  ;D
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mephisto on December 06, 2006, 09:16:07 PM
Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...

Best,

Alistair

Exept for Thal's amusing joke, all are piano music, or in its barqoue versions.

Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: thalbergmad on December 06, 2006, 11:38:48 PM
First Piano Concerto with chorus

Steibelt Number 8
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mikey6 on December 06, 2006, 11:43:39 PM
For the opening comment, I must say that the Tristan chord can be analysed, and it was actually used by Beethoven in the Eb sonata op31 no???? 1 2 or 3, I forget, u know the one I mean though, the Eb major.

ahm..no it can't - the sound of the chord may be a half diminished (m7b5) which in that case has been used by many composers before Beethoven- but the way it's spelt in the Wagner has no relationship to any key.

Eb sonata is no.3 btw.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: thalbergmad on December 06, 2006, 11:47:26 PM
First piece for orchestra where the woodwind players are not allowed any instruments.

Waltz for Restricted Orchestra - Peter Fricker
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: soliloquy on December 07, 2006, 04:40:07 AM
First Concerto- Vivaldi
First to use atonality (appoggiaturas)- Dutch Renaissance
First to use serialism- Roslavets
First to use electronics- Jean Barraque (Pierre Schaeffer is incorrect, but is many times noted as the first)
First Modern Saxophone in full orchestra (someone asked earlier)- Ravel
First use of the word "minimalism"- Nyman
First to use no time signature- Ives
First New Complexity Piece- hmm... technically Finnissy, although the term was not used until Ferneyhough came into importance
First Stochastic Piece- Hiller & Isaacson of Indiana University
First Symphonic Poem- Liszt
First Symbolist- Debussy
First Futurist- Mosolov; defining Scriabin as a futurist is questionable
First to use Bass Clarinet- Mercadante
First Bartok Pizzicato- Bartok!  just kidding- Gershwin



and, interestingly, first Avant-Garde piece: Haydn  (Farewell Symphony- look it up)


Anyway, to my knowledge that is all correct but I would not be surprised if 1 or 2 was wrong.


I would be interested in knowing what the first pieces to use scordatura or physical gesturation are; I assume it's not going to be the Kodaly Solo Cello Sonata and Scelsi's "Action Music" respectively?
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jre58591 on December 07, 2006, 05:07:06 AM
perhaps you can answer this. who was the first spectralist composer and/or piece? ive wanted to know that for a while.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: ihatepop on December 07, 2006, 06:04:57 AM
First piece for orchestra where the woodwind players are not allowed any instruments.

Waltz for Restricted Orchestra - Peter Fricker

Woodwind players were not allowed any instruments?
What do they do, then?!

ihatepop
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: soliloquy on December 07, 2006, 06:18:12 AM
perhaps you can answer this. who was the first spectralist composer and/or piece? ive wanted to know that for a while.

Technically Xenakis was the first to use vectorization in composition, but the "correct answer" will be French-Canadian composer Claude Vivier.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mephisto on December 07, 2006, 12:30:15 PM

First to use no time signature- Ives


Sadly you are wrong, and you know it.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: counterpoint on December 07, 2006, 12:35:19 PM
First Piece, which repeats FOREVER (!)

Chopin  Mazurka op.7 no. 5

has marking "dal segno senza Fine"
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: thalbergmad on December 07, 2006, 08:28:23 PM
First Concerto- Vivaldi

Before him - Radino, Jarzebski, Stradella, Muffat, Corelli, Torelli & Jaccini.
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: jakev2.0 on December 07, 2006, 08:29:52 PM
First composer to write serious masterpieces: Bach
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: thalbergmad on December 07, 2006, 09:34:22 PM
Woodwind players were not allowed any instruments?
What do they do, then?!

ihatepop

They have to play just with the mouth piece
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mikey6 on December 07, 2006, 11:44:47 PM
First composer to write serious masterpieces: Bach
Wooh - settin yourself up for some mega debate there! ;)
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: steve_m on December 07, 2006, 11:55:02 PM
3
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: mephisto on December 08, 2006, 06:25:13 AM
Does Gregorian Chant have ANY beat what so ever?
Title: Re: 1st's in the repertoire - contribute
Post by: ihatepop on December 09, 2006, 11:36:09 AM
They have to play just with the mouth piece

and blow into it? Are those woodwind players just for display?

ihatepop