Piano Forum
Piano Board => Repertoire => Topic started by: mikey6 on December 02, 2006, 06:30:08 AM
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I was thinking of a sort of fun history thread in which we can list the 1st tims something (say pedal markings, atonality etc.) was used and by whom. And feel free to correct/contradict anyone ;)
Pedal marking - Haydn Sonata in C Hob.50
un-analysable chord - 'Tristan' chord (obvious, but it had to be included)
completly atonal work - Erwartung by Schoenberg
Complete serial work - 4 Etudes in Rhythm no. (don't remember) Messaien.
That's all I can think of at the moment - does anyone know when 'fff' was first used? Can't imagine it being in Baroque times and the classics didn't use it I don't think.
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first piece with clusters used exclusively - dynamic motion by cowell
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I'm pretty sure the first piece where "clusters were used exclusively" was by the first toddler to came in contact with a keyboard. ;)
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first note played-the stone age
ihatepop
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Isn't Boulez' 2nd Piano Sonata something like the first post-serialistic piece?
Jhon Cage 4,33: First piano piece without any notes.
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first piece with clusters used exclusively - dynamic motion by cowell
I know Cowell used them throughout, but I heard of some Baroque piece where the harpsichordist has to slam his arm down on the keyboard - anyone know what it's called?
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I know Cowell used them throughout, but I heard of some Baroque piece where the harpsichordist has to slam his arm down on the keyboard - anyone know what it's called?
wow, are you sure this isnt a joke? that would bring my respect level up for baroque astronomically.
piece with the largest cluster - atmospheres by ligeti (about 5 octaves)
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Not sure, but most clusters repeated over... and over... and over....
Rzewski's Winsborro Cotton Mill Blues.
If not, oh well. I love the peice anyways.
And was it Debussy or Ravel that would sit down and play the same passage over and over again for a couple hours?
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First piece to use the Prepared Piano - Cage's 'Bacchanale' (I think).
First piece composed using 'Arborescences' Xenakis - Evryali
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Not sure, but most clusters repeated over... and over... and over....
Rzewski's Winsborro Cotton Mill Blues.
If not, oh well. I love the peice anyways.
actually, ornstein's danse sauvage has more clusters in a row. actually, almost thorughout the entire piece.
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And was it Debussy or Ravel that would sit down and play the same passage over and over again for a couple hours?
Are you sure you're not thinking of Satie's vexations? supposedly one pianist plays 2 8 bar passages for 800-odd times (I think the only single guy who ever attempted it started seeing demons by about the 500th time ;D)
Dunno what that could be classified as a first as though....
wow, are you sure this isnt a joke? that would bring my respect level up for baroque astronomically.
Nah, the composition teacher at uni told the class.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_cluster#_note-0
note 1 and the links explain a few interesting facts.
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first aleatoric composition - hovhaness's piano concerto "lousadzak"
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1st singer in a String Quartet.
A Hinton
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Complete serial work - 4 Etudes in Rhythm no. (don't remember) Messaien.
i checked my scores and found which messiaen etude you refer to. its titled "mode de valeurs et d'intensités". its probably my least favorite of that set.
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1st singer in a String Quartet.
A Hinton
Thanks for the plug, Thal, but - dear me! - that's wrong on both counts. First of all, my string quartet (I've written only one so far) does not include a singer - you are thinking of my string QUINtet (which includes a soprano in its finale); secondly, there are numeous other examples of solo singers in works scored for - and actually entitled - "string quartet", of which a relatively recent one is Ferneyhough's Fourth Quartet and perhaps the most famous is Schönberg's Second Quartet which is now almost a century old...
Best,
Alistair
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Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...
Best,
Alistair
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Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...
Best,
Alistair
Well...what are they?
Is the sax piece something by Bizet? That seems to ring a bell.
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For the opening comment, I must say that the Tristan chord can be analysed, and it was actually used by Beethoven in the Eb sonata op31 no???? 1 2 or 3, I forget, u know the one I mean though, the Eb major.
Bach well tempered clavier, first set of works to include all 24 keys ;D
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Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...
Best,
Alistair
Exept for Thal's amusing joke, all are piano music, or in its barqoue versions.
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First Piano Concerto with chorus
Steibelt Number 8
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For the opening comment, I must say that the Tristan chord can be analysed, and it was actually used by Beethoven in the Eb sonata op31 no???? 1 2 or 3, I forget, u know the one I mean though, the Eb major.
ahm..no it can't - the sound of the chord may be a half diminished (m7b5) which in that case has been used by many composers before Beethoven- but the way it's spelt in the Wagner has no relationship to any key.
Eb sonata is no.3 btw.
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First piece for orchestra where the woodwind players are not allowed any instruments.
Waltz for Restricted Orchestra - Peter Fricker
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First Concerto- Vivaldi
First to use atonality (appoggiaturas)- Dutch Renaissance
First to use serialism- Roslavets
First to use electronics- Jean Barraque (Pierre Schaeffer is incorrect, but is many times noted as the first)
First Modern Saxophone in full orchestra (someone asked earlier)- Ravel
First use of the word "minimalism"- Nyman
First to use no time signature- Ives
First New Complexity Piece- hmm... technically Finnissy, although the term was not used until Ferneyhough came into importance
First Stochastic Piece- Hiller & Isaacson of Indiana University
First Symphonic Poem- Liszt
First Symbolist- Debussy
First Futurist- Mosolov; defining Scriabin as a futurist is questionable
First to use Bass Clarinet- Mercadante
First Bartok Pizzicato- Bartok! just kidding- Gershwin
and, interestingly, first Avant-Garde piece: Haydn (Farewell Symphony- look it up)
Anyway, to my knowledge that is all correct but I would not be surprised if 1 or 2 was wrong.
I would be interested in knowing what the first pieces to use scordatura or physical gesturation are; I assume it's not going to be the Kodaly Solo Cello Sonata and Scelsi's "Action Music" respectively?
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perhaps you can answer this. who was the first spectralist composer and/or piece? ive wanted to know that for a while.
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First piece for orchestra where the woodwind players are not allowed any instruments.
Waltz for Restricted Orchestra - Peter Fricker
Woodwind players were not allowed any instruments?
What do they do, then?!
ihatepop
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perhaps you can answer this. who was the first spectralist composer and/or piece? ive wanted to know that for a while.
Technically Xenakis was the first to use vectorization in composition, but the "correct answer" will be French-Canadian composer Claude Vivier.
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First to use no time signature- Ives
Sadly you are wrong, and you know it.
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First Piece, which repeats FOREVER (!)
Chopin Mazurka op.7 no. 5
has marking "dal segno senza Fine"
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First Concerto- Vivaldi
Before him - Radino, Jarzebski, Stradella, Muffat, Corelli, Torelli & Jaccini.
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First composer to write serious masterpieces: Bach
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Woodwind players were not allowed any instruments?
What do they do, then?!
ihatepop
They have to play just with the mouth piece
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First composer to write serious masterpieces: Bach
Wooh - settin yourself up for some mega debate there! ;)
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3
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Does Gregorian Chant have ANY beat what so ever?
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They have to play just with the mouth piece
and blow into it? Are those woodwind players just for display?
ihatepop