Piano Forum
Piano Board => Performance => Topic started by: countrymath on December 29, 2010, 12:37:41 AM
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Hello people.
Im starting to practice arpeggios, on triads, but when i go from the 5th to the octave, it keeps with a "break", a lack of sound between these two notes. How should i practice to make a good "legato" arpeggio?
And one more thing, anyone here knows about practicing scales with the thumb over, instead of the thumb under technique?
I saw it on a book and i got interested on trying that.
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Countrymath, are you using a traditional 1-2-3-1 root position fingering? Try using 2-4-1-2....as you use with inversions.
What was the book you read on scales? What do you mean 'thumb over'? or are you carrying the hand to the thumb note? Thanks!
Kitty on the Keys
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Im starting to practice arpeggios, on triads, but when i go from the 5th to the octave, it keeps with a "break", a lack of sound between these two notes. How should i practice to make a good "legato" arpeggio?
Most pieces you play do not require this type of legato from the fingers. The only way to do it without the pedal and break in sound is to use thumb under while holding the 5th, although if you are going fast no one will notice the absence of sound if you use over technique, even Chopin said no one hears the inequality of a scale when it is played fast. Most of the times in pieces we play you merely use the pedal. Baroque period may require you to use finger legato for arpeggios but these figures where not used as much as periods after it and in later periods the sustain pedal became a common tool for keyboard playing.
And one more thing, anyone here knows about practicing scales with the thumb over, instead of the thumb under technique?
Thumb under when going slow, thumb over when fast.
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Wait...
What the hell is this thumb over when doing scales and arpeggios???
I've heard of thumb under sure, but thumb over??? I just can't picture it. :o
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Wait...
What the hell is this thumb over when doing scales and arpeggios???
I've heard of thumb under sure, but thumb over??? I just can't picture it. :o
As far as what I've heard, "Thumb Over" is a method that basically throws out the notion of crossing the thumb under. Basically, instead of crossing the thumb under, you just shift the entire hand into the next position.
Next time you're playing a fast scale or arpeggiated passage in a piece of music, pay attention to what your hands are doing and note whether you actually cross the thumb under or if you're merely shifting your hand over. Some people exhibit more thumb crossing tendencies than others. People who have shorter thumbs are more likely to do the "thumb over" technique while those with longer thumbs will likely do more of the "thumb under" technique. Neither is wrong. It's all about using the appropriate technique for the passage and what your hand is capable of.
Either way, one should concentrate on having a nice smooth wrist motion across the keyboard and you should certainly work to the "ideal" of having a perfectly legato arpeggio or scale. The pedal can always be used to connect, but we need to think of the pedal more as a modifier of sound rather than a crutch, and we're all certainly guilty of that.
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Basically, you can lift your wrist when going under with the thumb. Practise with lifting A Lot, and slowly. Then, when you can do that without and break, go a bit faster.
If that doesn't work, try to angle your hand to the way you're going. So if you go C-E-G-C, angle your hand a little bit to the right. That way, the thumb is way closer to the next note. Also "open" your hand on every thumb.
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To me, "Thumb over" is really a misleading name for the technique. Obviously the thumb must pass under the fingers and not over them (unless you want to play with your palms up!), but the hand gesture kind of leads the thumb to where it needs to be instead of needing to really tuck it under the hand.
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Ahhh... I always put thumb under... even in fast passages.
Is it wise to have quick hand shifting say in fast pieces? Wouldn't that cause a lot of strain on the wrists???
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There is a place in the first mephisto waltz, with crazy-fast arpeggios, and he wrote full ped. in such places, I don't see the point in not just moving the hand.
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Ahhh... I always put thumb under... even in fast passages.
Is it wise to have quick hand shifting say in fast pieces? Wouldn't that cause a lot of strain on the wrists???
No, no strain at all. The hand shift is done with the arm. The wrist needn't move - though it helps if you supinate slightly (rotate your forearm so your palm is toward the middle of the keyboard). What strains the wrists is rapid abduction/adduction, which you might be tricked into doing if you insist too much on passing the thumb under in very fast passages. Many people who think they do thumb under in fast passages don't, really. And as many others have said, thumb over is a very confusing description; at most the thumb goes "over" the spot where the 3rd or 4th finger used to be.
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Ok, thx you all.