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Piano Board => Audition Room => Topic started by: emill on October 08, 2011, 08:48:28 PM

Title: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: emill on October 08, 2011, 08:48:28 PM

EDIT:  (10-9-2011) just posted the 2nd and 3rd movements - NO 1st mvt. as jurors only allowed 2 movements due to severe time constraints.

We will be grateful for any comments, observations or recommendations.  We are a firm believer that with time, advice and adequate practice, piano performance will surely improve.  MANY THANKS ! ! ! !

This wonderful piece by Beethoven was played by Lorenzo in the semifinals of the National Music Competitions for Young Artists (NAMCYA), our country's premiere music competition. Lady fortune was kind to us, Enzo made the cut for the finals to be held late November. Like all parents of piano competitors, it was again nerve-wracking time .. my, ... the stresses parents must endure when their children are being scrutinized and judged.

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23 in F minor, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: kellyc on October 08, 2011, 11:28:15 PM

Hi Emill. I am relativity new to this board and so this is actually the first time I have heard Enzo play. I did of course look back on some of his other performances and was left with quite a difficult choice. Should I comment based on the fact that Enzo is still so young or should I critic this performance as one might where he a College age conservatory student taking a master class.

Well let me state that I have nothing but praise for this effort for someone his age.  I doubt I could have done this at 16. However, I'm 23 now working on my Masters in music , and so the comments to follow are as if he where a classmate of mine. OF course I have no idea how long he has worked on this, so please take that into account when reading what I have to say.

First - to fast, he left nothing in the tank for more at the end when he needed it.  It sounded like he was in a race from beginning to end. Make sure there is plenty of emotion in reserve for the parts that need it. ( He starts this faster than valentina lisitsa - thats fast. ) Second his left hand just isn't an equal partner the way this is played. The lines that the left hand have just don't stand out. There either to soft or to blurry. I suspect part of that is the furious tempo he chose. Pedaling also needs a good deal of work. I assume party of the lack of clarity has to do with the recording, but part of it was his pedaling.  I could go into the artistic and harmonic aspects of this piece , but he isn't at the stage where that is needed yet.

To finish let me say that this was one of the finest performances from someone his age that I have heard. It is my hope that in the future he presents this work and all of us can say it is one of the finest performances we have heard of this piece irrespective of his age. 

As a final comment to you. I was truly truly impressed by his Liszt Piano Concerto performance. I enjoyed his playing in that. 

Kelly

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23 in F minor, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: emill on October 09, 2011, 01:44:32 AM

Dear Kellyc,

Thank you for the constructive comment ... I too felt it was a bit too fast .... I almost fainted from nervousness as I was just praying that no major snafu would occur. Although I must also say that I should have posted the 3rd together with the 2nd movement to give it better perspective and contrast.  Also in the hall, the articulations for both hands sounded much better... I should probably equip this Canon camera with a zoom microphone or get one of those audio recorders like the Zoom H4n or the Sony PCM-D50 because being at the distance I was, over a hundred feet from the stage changed the general character of the audio.

Nevertheless I am most grateful for your observation and that is exactly how we would wish it to be ... as if Lorenzo were now in college and perhaps in a master class atmosphere.  I appreciate most the way you wrote everything ..... full of civility.  I am going to forward this to  his teacher .... I am sure she will put serious consideration to the observations as she has always done so in the past.  SO MANY THANKS.

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23 in F minor, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: emill on October 09, 2011, 02:07:11 AM

oopppssss  ..... DELETE ..... meant as a private message..

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23 in F minor, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: perfect_pitch on October 09, 2011, 02:30:13 AM

KellyC made some very good point, points that I was just about to make before realising she posted them already.

HOWEVER, the one thing that I really think needs to be taken care of - is the bouncing off the seat. As a piano teacher, I think there's absolutely no need for it. The only time I ever saw a professional pianist stand slightly from the stool was Pletnev doing a long octave glissando up the entire piano keyboard in Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a theme by Paganini... and I thought it was justified considering what he had to play.

But the bouncing on the stool REALLY detracted from the performance, for me. It suggests that he's trying to push the piano keys down instead of letting the arms drop in to them. And if he's bouncing on the seat because he's pushing them down with great force - you're going to do damage to your hands and the piano.

I've seen a number of students and friends in my time with curious habits... A girl who played so expressively and had such shakes of the hands, head and body that people thought she needed an exorcism. The nose-plant into the piano keyboard where people think that you need to be three inches from the piano keys to play pianissimo, and have your nose wedged in between the keys. Also, had someone with the jutting head... the head would almost act violently like the conductor would wave while they play... quite odd.

I would be very careful of the bouncing on the stool - I really feel that there's no need for it, and it's completely unnecessary.



Having said that - his proficiency at tackling the great works is getting better and better.

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: emill on October 09, 2011, 06:29:10 AM

Hi p_p! :)

Have talked to Enzo about this ... the bouncing and if you will notice it is much less than his earlier pieces. Frankly he gets a lot of mixed signals from other academics here who are neutral to the "habit", although his teacher often reminds him to be more subdued. I know he is trying, but the trouble is when he gets immersed in the piece and gets excited it just comes out.  This is most likely still a carry over of his much younger days when he really was small and had to use the maneuver for fortes.  He also had this habit of really stooping so that his head almost touches the keyboards ... likely a result of high myopia, which we did not recognize earlier... now that he wears contact lenses for a grade "600" for both eyes the habit has almost disappeared. Maybe, when funds will be more available we may opt for laser corneal correction.

THANKS for the - "his proficiency at tackling the great works is getting better and better".  I also feel that he has improved a lot since he started "formal" lessons with his teacher almost 6 years ago in early 2006.  But I must also credit his being consistent with his practice ... at least an hour a day and up to 3 hours on weekends .... despite regular school.  THANKS!!!

emill

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: jaggens on October 10, 2011, 12:07:30 PM

Hi Emill and Enzo,

Thank you for the posting.
I think that most things have been said in the previous postings and they are astute.

Congratulations for the performance and making it to the next round in November.
I wish you good luck.

Best wishes,
Jaak

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: starstruck5 on October 19, 2011, 06:12:44 PM

It's a shame the piano was absolutely awful. In the slow movement - the high Ab not only sounded flat, it sounded false - and that is one of the most important notes in the movement. I agree that the tempo of the 3rd movement was taken too fast - Beethoven marks it Allegro ma non troppo - which is clearly ignored here - You are in good company though -since many great pianists such as Rubinstein and Richter and many others have played this at an alarmingly fast tempo - leaving little for the final charge when I believe the tempo is meant to sped up by some logical ratio - if we say conservatively a third as much again as the Allegro ma non troppo, say 120bpm, then we need to play the presto at 160bpm - which is challenging at the end of this sonata.

In any case -congratualtions on making it through and good luck in the final!

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: emill on October 20, 2011, 02:25:00 AM

It is PALPABLE and can no longer be ignored as a temporary glitch .....

The landscape is changing in PianoStreet .... the old guards are leaving
or fading away ....  not so good for PS!!  :'(

Lady Gaga .... the Pirates of C .... Clayderman ... Final Fantasy and others .... are making
some rippling headway .... alarming the purists and some old guards!! ;D

the NEWbies are coming .....  KellyC ..... Jaggens ..... starstruck5 ... and so many more !!!   and I am thankful to them for injecting new blood and new energy .... :) ;D

AAhhhh .... it will be interesting to note the landscape this time next year...

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: rachfan on October 20, 2011, 03:36:36 AM

Hi emill,

Bravo to Enzo!  I enjoyed hearing his rendition of this big sonata.  I believe that the remarks above are fair and helpful, so no need to repeat them.  I really like Enzo's expressiveness and wonderful control over his dynamic ranges while playing.  His phrasing is quite good and he weaves that effectively into the "long line" of the music, thereby riveting the attention of the audience.  

There were a few moments when I thought he could have had more judicious control over the pedal.  But I need to be careful, as sometimes editions differ.  Another complication is the fact that occasionally Beethoven wrote some longer pedals which probably worked well on the old fortepianos of his day; however, the modern and more powerful grand piano is less amenable to them.  Thus, there was some notable blurring in places.  It's a dilemma between what Beethoven wanted versus what might sound best on modern instruments.  Enzo might want to carefully review some of those spots with his teacher to determine whether they meet acceptable performance practices or possibly need to be modified in some places thereby benefiting his performance.

Congratulations to Enzo on reaching the finals in the competition.   I wish him the very best in November!

David    

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: rachfan on October 20, 2011, 04:12:33 AM

Hi emill  

Quote

The landscape is changing in PianoStreet .... the old guards are leaving
or fading away ....  not so good for PS!!  Cry

Yes, that's certainly true.  I've been here since January 4, 2003 when Piano Street was called Piano Forum.  So I don't know if I'm in the Old Guard or just a fixture here. :)  But yes, I've seen a lot of changes over those 8 years.  One of the patterns that often repeats itself is that conservatory and university piano department students often discover Piano Street, post their performances here and their year-end recital excerpts and join in the dialogues.  Then when they graduate, it seems that many disappear from the website, many never to return.  Once they launch their careers in performance, teaching or whatever, it seems that they feel that they've graduated from Piano Street too.  

Sometimes we're graced with mature artists and piano teachers who not only contribute their own recordings occasionally, but are kind enough to help and encourage the young pianists here too.  I've always believed that accomplished pianists here have a responsibility to do that.  There have also been some very erudite pianists who well know the literature of the piano, much about musicology, anecdotes about famous composers, and the great pianists throughout history.  They've added a lot of breadth and depth to discussions here.  We don't always agree, but we've all learned from one another.

It saddens me too when some of our fine pianists and wonderful members leave Piano Street.  There have been many over the years.  But given time, it's inevitable that other fine musicians who well know the traditions, challenges and joys of artistic piano playing join thereby filling the voids. As you say, it introduces new blood and energy which is always positive.

David

    

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: perfect_pitch on October 20, 2011, 05:21:58 AM

Quote from: emill on October 20, 2011, 02:25:00 AM

.... the Pirates of C ....

Hey... what's wrong with Pirates of the Caribbean? Hans Zimmer writes his music in a classical style, very traditional...

Title: Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 23, Op. 57 "Appasionata" 2nd & 3rd mvt - Enzo
Post by: costicina on October 26, 2011, 08:40:03 AM

Yes, It’s true …
Many key members of this forum disappeared (for good, I’m afraid): Bernhard, Xvimbi, Robert Henry..just to mentions some names. We miss them, we’ll be insanely happy if they decide to come back. But  we still have their posts, a wealth that nobody can take away from us….

Nonetheless, so many newbyes, with patience and generosity, are giving such a precious contribute to keep alive this forum: i’s still a wonderful resource  and an irreplaceable help for all the piano lovers (especially for us amateurs  ;)).

I would like to thank with all my heart this great community: you have no idea how essential  it has  been and still is for me and my daughter. We’ve learned a lot from you, not only in the field of piano playing, but in the broader “existential” meaning.
Please, keep on encouraging, rebuking, advising us: we need BADLY your support
LONG LIFE TO PIANOSTREET!!!!
Margherita