Piano Forum
Piano Board => Performance => Topic started by: octave_revolutionary on March 10, 2016, 09:12:31 PM
-
It's Finally here! A recording of Chopin's Revolutionary Etude
in octaves!!
(at least entirely in octaves, with some thirds and sixths
thrown in)
on the Youtube channel extremepianochannel
.....plus Chopin's etude, op. 10,#2 in 60 seconds, and
possibly the loudest (and most violent!) performance
of the finale from Prokofiev's seventh Sonata
....and more. Only on EXTREMEPIANOCHANNEL
(written exactly like that, with no spacing between
the words)
Enjoy!
-
It's Finally here! A recording of Chopin's Revolutionary Etude
in octaves!!...
i wasn't aware we were waiting for this.
(https://m.popkey.co/b0d434/jWxEj.gif)
-
certainly interesting thats for sure. I dont think there are a lot of people who can do this, your mechanical skill is superb. however I would love to see you direct all of that talent to something that's a little more meaningful. I would much prefer to hear a delicately played mazurka by chopin or you....
Just a suggestion.
-
certainly interesting thats for sure. I dont think there are a lot of people who can do this, your mechanical skill is superb. however I would love to see you direct all of that talent to something that's a little more meaningful. I would much prefer to hear a delicately played mazurka by chopin or you....
Just a suggestion.
thumbs up. I never understood godowsky
-
thumbs up. I never understood godowsky
For me he is very hit or miss. for some of his etudes on chopins etudes, I think they're outright boring and ugly. But there are very beautiful gems among the 50 something studies...
This one for example:
One of my fav transcriptions of the set. Very beautiful.
-
In the first parenthetical insert of this post, I forgot to write
"almost"; i.e., (at least ALMOST entirely in octaves)
and in the reference to Prok's 7th sonata I should have concluded
with "on the Internet". My bad.
-
While nobody should fail to appreciate the physical skills required to pull this off, everybody should also ask themselves... "why?".
I would never want to hear Mozart's Symphony 41 played in octaves or hear a two part invention played in octaves (hmmm... now there's an idea for you... Try the A minor 2 part in octaves...). OK. Maybe I would be curious to hear that one, but the point is, the music suffers so much from the athleticism that it is hard to listen to.
I have used this illustration here before. There was a French figure skater years ago, I think her name was Surai Bonaly (or something close to that). This girl could pull of quadruple jumps and even do back flips at a time when nobody else could do it. She was a marvelous athletic machine. And, she had all the grace of a 10 pound sack of framing nails. There was no grace, no flowing lines, nothing that could be even remotely mistaken for the kind of poetic beauty that her peers possessed. And she would be royally pissed every time she would lose to someone who could NOT do quad jumps. Athletically, she was a marvel. Artistically, she was a disaster.
I appreciate your immense effort, however. Please do understand that I am impressed with that aspect.
-
Can you provide a link to this video? I can't seem to find it.
-
Hi,
the link to this video is
and to the entire channel is:
-
woooow man! It is true that the right hand gets a bit too much covered by the left, but still, really amazing stuff!
I wish I had 1/100th of your talent.
Your channel could use some improvement on the video&sound side though, it would be nice to watch your performances in high quality.
-
I may be recounting some familiar anecdotes: if so, apologies. The idea of playing the left hand part of the Revolutionary Etude in octaves may owe its inception to Johann Tomaschek, a Bohemian pianist who taught Alexander Dreyschock (a famous virtuoso of his day). A casual remark predicting that a pianist would someday arrive who could accomplish that stunt supposedly gave Dreyschock the inspiration to master the problem. Many contemporary accounts testify that he did, playing the piece up to tempo. Harold Schonberg provides an amusing overview of both Dreyschock and his attainments in his book The Great Pianists. He also tells a nice little story about Liszt's reaction (you'll have to read it yourself).
I suppose the simplest answer to Jim Roof's question of "why" is mountain climber George Malloy's riposte of "because it's there," when asked why he wanted to climb Mt.Everest. In musical terms, the result may not be aesthetically pleasing, but one can understand the compulsion to try.
-
I misspelled "Mallory" in my earlier post, leaving out the essential "r" in his last name. Still, I'm sure anyone reading (or remembering) the quote won't be too offended by my typo.
-
There was a French figure skater years ago, I think her name was Surai Bonaly (or something close to that). This girl could pull of quadruple jumps and even do back flips at a time when nobody else could do it. She was a marvelous athletic machine. And, she had all the grace of a 10 pound sack of framing nails.aspect.
I remember her... lol. amazing feats but she looked like she would have been better suited to hockey. It was like watching a NFL linebacker with skates on. those were days of Nancy Kerigan and the baseball bat I think...(only in America..lol) or was it the time of Kwan?
to the OP: impressive skills you have there. :)
-
.
-
Proving (either to yourself or to other people) that you can do such complicated stunts seems a reason good enough to me.
Also, acquiring technique so that you can breeze through other complicated music in the future seems another good reason.
Just for having fun, showing off, whatever, all good reasons.
One could also ask: Flight of the bumblebee is already complicated enough, why would Cziffra make it even harder? The Turkish March is such a nice piece, was it really necessary for Volodos to transcribe it in such a complicated way?
Well, I think we could all worry less about the reason why people would devote themselves to such difficult music and enjoy more the skills of the players themselves.
-
.
-
I have no quarrel with the reasoning, I was just interested to know.
And I think you're crossing great pianists with difficult pieces and sticking them together.
What i'm suggesting is a great pianist isn't necessarily the most technically gifted, and the most technical pianist isn't necessarily the greatest pianist.
Cziffra admitedly had a fantastic balance of the two in his prime, but I don't think it was his version of flight of the bumble bee that "made him"
My opinion comes from the fact that we are watching this pianist perform octaves of an etude in what looks like a home on a well-used piano. Not in the grand concert hall with 1000's applauding.
If he's technically capable of playing this, you could argue he's capable of playing any piece, why is there not recordings of them?
There's no negativity here in my response, but you, yourself have called it a "stunt" so you don't appear to have actually taken this performance seriously. I just wonder why somebody that could perform this, hasn't yet been noticed.
The reason you don't see him live in Carnegie hall is because his skill is in video editing.
-
I like dantesonata's explanation :-))
@adodd:
I was just making other examples of pieces which have been adjusted in a technically complicated way without necessarily an improvement on the quality of the piece itself (but then again, beauty is in the eye, or ear in this case, of the beholder).
The problem with the "stunt" word I used might arise from the fact that English is not my first language :) I meant to use stunt as in the movies, indicating a particularly difficult and acrobatic movement, so nothing to detract from the performance, but maybe it doesn't sound right in English.
Would you rate this piece differently if he played in a concert hall with 10'000 people applauding instead of in an old flat? Or if he had played many other pieces in his channel? Maybe the guy just didn't have the time/will/contacts/luck/whatever to be a succesful player in a big theater. Maybe he also didn't have the time to upload many other pieces that he's capable of playing.
But even if he cannot play much else, I personally think that we should judge a performance as a unique entity, without caring of its success, of how many people applaud, nor of what other performances the same person is capable of doing.
Still, I suppose you're not much into chops and more into "emotional" pieces, so I guess I can understand your point. Nothing that I could argue with. I just think that both things have their place in music. Must be 'cause I'm still a beginner and I get easily excited by showoffsy technical skills :-)
-
.
-
The reason you don't see him live in Carnegie hall is because his skill is in video editing.
LOL ;D the hands just don't look right.. I agree.
it's funny how people think that simply being a great pianist means you will get noticed and make it to Carnegie hall. I believed at one time that if I just got my chops in shape everything else would fall into place and I would have all the gigs I want. One day the powers that be would somehow sense my "warp signature" from playing at the speed of light and come to collect me and make me a world famous concert pianist. ;D ;D
That is so not the way it works... it takes planning self-promotion, marketing--all of which you do on your own until you hit the big time. This guy doesn't seem to be a very charismatic player... dramatic and extreme.. yes. engaging...not really. Although it is mildly impressive it's not the kind of thing that will sell out concert halls.
-
Certainly an interesting biography/rant: https://antoniodomingos.net/about
-
Certainly an interesting biography/rant: https://antoniodomingos.net/about
Exactly as I thought. Piano for this person is sport - not art.
-
.
-
I'm not sure how that biography "confirmed" in any way that "piano for this person is sport - not art".
Also, I still don't understand why one must watch a video in a concert hall and/or read a bio before judging a piece of music. How did you guys do before the internet? Have you never appreciated any previously unknown music at the radio? I'm somehow missing something.
I remember there was an interesting experiment some years ago:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pearls-before-breakfast-can-one-of-the-nations-great-musicians-cut-through-the-fog-of-a-dc-rush-hour-lets-find-out/2014/09/23/8a6d46da-4331-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html
I guess it's not definite proof of anything, as people in a metro are generally in a hurry, but still this guy went from general acclaim in concert halls to being ignored in a subway. Somehow goes to show how the perception of a person are often dictated by the judgement of other individuals instead of what they personally really think about a piece of music.
-
.
-
Would you not question ONE video that shows an extremely difficult performance being nailed, from a guy that's been rejected from every music school and lost every music competition he's ever entered.
YES! and something is strange in that vid.
rejected by every music school... schools are businesses and they almost always take your money and let you in... it's getting out that's tough. Rejected by the labels and the festivals..
why do you suppose he takes up so much of his bio recounting the exact number of times he has been rejected and by whom? that's kinda odd. He seems to be presenting those numbers like it's work experience. It does show tenacity but says something entirely different about his performance ability. IDK it sounds like he really believed he should have been signed --or booked--or allowed to go to university... one things for sure... that bio won't get him a lot of gigs--but maybe that's not what he is after.
-
I'm not sure how that biography "confirmed" in any way that "piano for this person is sport - not art".
Have you ever heard of a real pianist, a real MUSICIAN, ever include in their list of achievements the SPEED at which they played a piece? I never have. But let's have some fun with it...
"Last night at Carnegie Hall, pianist Viatslav Mannheimsky performed Chopin's Scherzo number 3 in C# minor in near record time of 6 minutes, 16 seconds. His rendition of Mozart's K576 came in with the following times - 4 minutes, 11 seconds for the first movement, 45 seconds for the slow movement (for competition, most performers play this at a break neck speed) and, he set a world record for the final movement with a time of 3 minutes, 52 seconds. Judges noted that he missed 4 notes in the rapid passages, but that was under the allowed .01% allowed for the record to stand."
How silly was that? And how silly is one touting that one of their great achievements is playing Opus 10, #2 in 60 seconds? That's Carl Lewis talk right there.
I want to know how many people he has brought to tears with a Beethoven slow movement. THAT is a musical accomplishment. Getting from point A to point B as fast as possible is for track and field or street racers.
That is why I said he plays for sport more than for music.
-
well, Liszt is said by some to have been the first rockstar. I wouldn't have any problem imagining him doing wacky technical stuff with the sole purpose to inflame the crowd. This doesn't lessen his artistic value one bit. Emotion in music is not just about bringing tears to your eyes, the excitement caused by awesome chops is an emotion too, just a different one. I personally think that technique cannot be separated by the music itself so sharply as many other people do.
Of course this might be the only thing that this guy is capable of doing, we don't know for sure and are juding solely based on the biography and a couple of videos. Even if it was the case, I still would be extremely jealous of this guy's technique and I wouldn't criticize this particular piece for that. But at this point, let's just agree to disagree :)
I must admit that the biography is weird though! I'm not that surprised by the fact that he didn't get in any school or festival, because this is very possible when (I suppose) aiming at the top institutions/events where the talents abound and the competition is fierce, so even very skilled musicians can be left out. But still, was it really necessary to write it all in the Bio? That's kinda funny! Too Much Information! Definitely a faux pas from the "marketing" standpoint.
-
well, Liszt is said by some to have been the first rockstar. ...
I was not aware Liszt played rock and roll music, all the music i find is romantic piano and orchestral work.
-
.
-
I'm not sure how that biography "confirmed" in any way that "piano for this person is sport - not art".
Also, I still don't understand why one must watch a video in a concert hall and/or read a bio before judging a piece of music. How did you guys do before the internet? Have you never appreciated any previously unknown music at the radio? I'm somehow missing something.
Nobody is using the bio to judge the music here. The music was what it was, an extremely technically proficient cacophony launched at the listener for some unknown reason. It was brash and ugly.
What people ARE trying to understand is the WHY of it. I know there was a time in the romantic era when pianists would strive for more and more technique. Some did for the sake of the music and some did for the sake of attention. I recall my edition of the Chopin Gm Ballade including the alternate fingering for a double minor thirds scale at the end of the piece (not in minor 10ths, but in minor thirds in each hand). How anyone could do that at the now accepted speed of that run was beyond me. Maybe someone COULD do it.
I digress. Music is communication above all else. I would rather hear someone who has something to say as opposed to hear someone talk loud and fast, with perfect elocution, but just running on about nothing.
-
I was not aware Liszt played rock and roll music, all the music i find is romantic piano and orchestral work.
Wasn't he that dude who bit a bat's head off during a concert? ;D
Adodd, the reason why I use "highly reputable pianists" to make my examples is exactly because, using the reasoning you used with this guy, you might as well end up criticizing "highly reputable pianists" unknowingly.
Let's absurdly suppose that at the times of Liszt one guy doesn't t know who Liszt is, and the only time he comes across him is during a short but inflamed uber-technical performance.
Using your reasoning, this guy wouldn't think much of Liszt. He would think "meh, too much technique, zero emotion". He would be juding based on limited information.
Therefore, when I see such kind of performance, the first thing I think is not "why?" but "wow, great chops". If at a later time I happen to see another performance from the same player, showing "emotional content" as well, even better. But I do think that technique is a necessary (but not sufficient) aspect of a great pianist.
Jimroof, the thing is, why would you want to understand the why of it? :) What would it change of your enjoyment of the music? My very personal opinion is that the reason behind a piece shouldn't matter in the evaluation of the piece itself. Even if it's made just to show off, I don't see what the problem is. If I had those chops, I would definitely do it too. Plus, I guess it can be just considered as an etude (it IS indeed a more complicated version of an etude), therefore its main aim is mastering a technique, and my personal guess is that the guy performing this wouldn't have any problems in easliy performing other music where the use of fast octaves is required.
Guys, this is the internet and sometimes it's difficult to understand other people's mood, so I would just like to clarify, in case it's needed, that I'm not trying to get polemical and I'm just trying to have a civilized conversion about a topic I'm genuinely interested about (I might open another focused thread about it in the future) and I do respect your opinions 100%. I've seen older threads deteriorating into wars in this website (the hanon book threads were a favorite place for this kinds of occurrences :) ) so I just wanted to write this paragraph in order to make sure that we're cool.
-
.
-
What people ARE trying to understand is the WHY of it. I know there was a time in the romantic era when pianists would strive for more and more technique. Some did for the sake of the music and some did for the sake of attention. I recall my edition of the Chopin Gm Ballade including the alternate fingering for a double minor thirds scale at the end of the piece (not in minor 10ths, but in minor thirds in each hand). How anyone could do that at the now accepted speed of that run was beyond me. Maybe someone COULD do it.
I digress. Music is communication above all else. I would rather hear someone who has something to say as opposed to hear someone talk loud and fast, with perfect elocution, but just running on about nothing.
Friedman (iirc) closes his recording of the Minute Waltz with a lightning fast run in thirds instead of the usual scale.
I wouldn't say the performer has "made music" here, but nevertheless there is obvious merit in the sense that this feat, for what it's worth, is a documented part of historical performance legend, and the performer has managed to replicate it. Thie video doesn't imply the performer is not a musician. It should be just taken for what it is - a remarkable technical feat documented for the first time on video.
His bio is curious: it suggests a certain level of grudge-holding against the establishment and one can only speculate as to why.
-
.
-
Also not for the first time xD
I hadn't seen this before, but it's not really up to tempo is it? I could probably do that after a few days' practice. The OP's video is in a different class altogether.
-
.
-
While nobody should fail to appreciate the physical skills required to pull this off, everybody should also ask themselves... "why?".
I would never want to hear Mozart's Symphony 41 played in octaves or hear a two part invention played in octaves.
I'm fairly certain I've read somewhere that one of the famous conservatoires (Moscow or Paris, I think) at one time prescribed the F maj two part invention in octaves in both hands as an exercise.
-
I hadn't seen this before, but it's not really up to tempo is it? I could probably do that after a few days' practice. The OP's video is in a different class altogether.
That makes me want to go deaf.
-
I'm fairly certain I've read somewhere that one of the famous conservatoires (Moscow or Paris, I think) at one time prescribed the F maj two part invention in octaves in both hands as an exercise.
some teachers can be cruel ;D
-
I want to know how many people he has brought to tears with a Beethoven slow movement.
I wouldn't know- I never counted them! :)
-
I would never want to hear Mozart's Symphony 41 played in octaves or hear a two part invention played in octaves (hmmm... now there's an idea for you... Try the A minor 2 part in octaves...). OK. Maybe I would be curious to hear that one, but the point is, the music suffers so much from the athleticism that it is hard to listen to.
Hi jimroof,
Here is Invention No. 14 partly in octaves starting at around 50 seconds in. ;)
-
Definitely some damn good chops to be admired in your playing. However, I'm not convinced of anything musically speaking...
-
Personally, I honestly believe that Chopin would have approved of this version of the 'Revolutionary', given the feelings of revolt he must have felt, what with his homeland having been under siege at the time he wrote it. I remember reading in "The Great Pianists" by Harold Schoenberg about a young man (I believe one of Chopin's own students), who apologized for having broken a string while playing the 'Military' Polonaise for Chopin himself, to which the great master retorted, "Young man, if I had your strength, there wouldn't be a single string left in that piano by the time I had been finished."
People often forget that a piano is capable of much more than churning out prissy-wissy melodies and intimate dinner music. To me the piano is closer to an orchestra- capable of expressing the most powerful, noble, and repressed of human sentiments- while maintaining the precision of attack of a grinding ratchet or of a gumball burst.
-
Personally, I honestly believe that Chopin would have approved of this version...
I have a vague memory of reading a story about Liszt performing one of Chopin's Nocturnes with all sorts of extra ornaments and Chopin apparently when berserk and told him that if he wasn't going to play it as written then he should play it at all.
-
.
-
It is obvious why this pianist has been unsuccessful at music schools, record labels, and so on: What he is doing has nothing to do with what they are doing, other than that they both involve pressing on keys.
He ought to look into playing keyboards for a progressive metal band. That is a genre where acrobatic feats are often prioritized over the music itself (moreso than in progressive rock). He could be enormously successful. I imagine that he could go down in history as they greatest and most respected progressive metal keyboardist of all time.
-
I also remember the same extract of information you're referring too.
However there are 2 things to consider, against and for.
Against
Firstly, Would Chopin not have composed it himself, in octaves, had that not been what he desired? He composed octave Etudes, so I would be inclined to conclude that this was not designed to be embellished in such a way. The lacking musicality becomes evident as you listen to the performance, it's not pleasing to the ears.
For
Secondly, and referring back to that Liszt extract, Chopin was known to have improvised on his own works and quoted to have played the same piece differently every time. Piano improvisation in general, I am certain was praised. Further, one may pick out a little jealousy between the two with such a comment, I further read that Chopin was in awe at how Liszt performed his Etudes, and despite Chopin's over all style and recluse to the Salon, you must ponder the thought that had he had that virtuoso confidence, would he had not preferred to have been appreciated upon a stage?
@adodd81802 I suspect that if Chopin had had Liszt's or Dreyschock's technique, he just might have written the Revolutionary etude, or something similar, in octaves. Ignoring the fact that he never wrote anything that was technically nearly as difficult as that, don't forget that had he had been endowed with superior physical reflexes, and hadn't been so sickly and frail, he would have FELT the piano differently, thus inducing him to write for it differently. But what with the way things were, I reckon that he might have in fact, freaked out if he had heard it performed in octaves, instead of in single notes, but, after having had some time to reflect on the sound and ultimate impression and let his ego cool down a little, he just might have come to realize, "Ah...... yes, THAT'S the way it should be done......"
Personally, I never liked this Etude much at all UNTIL I started playing it in octaves- it simply acquired a new dimension at that point. If you could name anything at all more technically challenging, I would really appreciate that; I'm seriously very curious to know if any composer has come up with something more difficult- if it's really good music, I just might feel compelled to tackle it.
It is obvious why this pianist has been unsuccessful at music schools, record labels, and so on: What he is doing has nothing to do with what they are doing, other than that they both involve pressing on keys.
He ought to look into playing keyboards for a progressive metal band. That is a genre where acrobatic feats are often prioritized over the music itself (moreso than in progressive rock). He could be enormously successful. I imagine that he could go down in history as they greatest and most respected progressive metal keyboardist of all time.
Thanks, preludetr, I really appreciate your suggestion. I even might seriously consider it, as long as 1) I can find a band that's willing to accept me and 2) it will be only a part-time thing that won't interfere with my career as a classical-oriented pianist. The thought has crossed my mind, honestly, but I've never even ventured into that type of music- although I certainly don't think it would be even nearly as difficult to learn or perform as classical/romantic stuff.
However, with regard to schools, competitions, etc., you've got it all wrong: I've been rejected from every piano competition I've played in since the year 2000 - a total of 8 - and I assure you, except in maybe 3 cases, it wasn't due to banging, excessive speed, or lack of poetry or finesse (or even making too many mistakes, for that matter). Apart from those 3 occasions I just mentioned, in which case I simply hadn't had the time to prepare adequately and made a mess on the stage, I was eliminated invariably from the 1st round in all of them, having competed against some contestants who did little more during the course of their performances than press keys, like a bookkeeper would do on a typewriter. And once I auditioned for a school, whose name I'm not going to mention, where one of the professors on the panel of my audition was so unbelievably arrogant and condescending, that I knew I wouldn't be accepted there right from the start. Not that I needed that school for anything- I just was trying to get a scholarship so that I could reside for a year or two in one of Europe's big capitals. Anyway, when I arrived home, I looked up that professor on the Internet, and listened to an audio sample of his playing on a music streaming service. Guess what? He played like an ALS victim in handcuffs might have done- which leads me to suspect that when it comes to competitions, music schools, master classes, the thing which plays the biggest role isn't talent, or level of achievement - it's jealousy. I also have a theory about competitions, which I'm not going to elaborate on as of yet, but it pretty much explains why stuff like this goes on- especially when the contestants whom I expect to be competing against in the 3rd round are all eliminated from the 1st, just like me- and you'd be surprised why I think it happens.
By the way, just to show that I can actually turn around and offer a a contemplative, poetic reading of non-super-virtuosic, craze-driven tours-de-force, here's a recording of mine that I think you might enjoy:
Regards,
Octave
-
If you want to try and convince us of your beauty in playing, you may want to take this video down...
I found that... absolutely disgusting, to do that to a piano... and why you would edit the speed of your playing... I don't know... but it looks suspect.
-
By the way, just to show that I can actually turn around and offer a a contemplative, poetic reading of non-super-virtuosic, craze-driven tours-de-force, here's a recording of mine that I think you might enjoy:
Is that really you playing?
-
.
-
@adodd81802 Regarding your question about Gaspard, I think it's gotten a bad rap from pianists the world over mainly for its awkward passages involving juxtaposition of the hands in certain passages, leaps while crossing one hand over the other, and for prerequisites such as extremely fine and ethereal tonal shading and aural craftsmanship required to pull it off convicingly. I've never played it myself- but having browsed through it a few times in the past, it seems like a piece of cake to me- can't understand why it's considered to be so difficult - might be a question of endurance more than speed, idk.
'Islamey', however, is a totally different story- it has a reputation of being one of the most notoriously difficult things ever written for the piano (at least in the standard repertoire)- and possibly with good reason. It's my impression that it's actually more treacherous than difficult, and has gotten a bad rap because pianists most probably approach it in an amateurish and tecnically inefficient manner. It's also a piece that i've never played either, but I can vouch for the awkwardness of the writing, and the chromatic descending octaves in the right hand, together with the leaps in the left hand in the development part preceeding the 'trepak' are no doubt, at least a slight challenge to master. I also tend to think that the huge quantity of accidentals and chromaticisms in the piece daunts and confuses pianists. Having said that, I think its difficulty lies much more in conveying the spirit of the piece- which, according to one of my piano professors, was inspired in pantheism- and maintaining this spirit throughout while not faltering in tempo or impetus- that is almost certainly a challenge. If you want to learn it, I recommend first learning it very slowly, then gradually speeding up the parts I just mentioned, before trying to tackle it as a whole and as a musical composition. And I don't recommend it being tackled by anyone under 20 years old, or without a professional-level technique! All this being said, I assure you that it isn't anywhere even NEARLY as difficult as the Revolutionary etude in octaves, or even Op.10,#2 in 60 seconds, for that matter- playing the Rev. in octaves is a feat of singular technical complexity, which I don't advise ANYONE, even a top, world-class pianist, of attempting to duplicate. There have been famous pianists in the 20th century who have permanently injured their hands playing stuff much easier than that.
-
@octave_revolutionary,
Aren't you over-selling the difficulty of the Revolutionary Etude in octaves a bit? I'm sure there are many pianists who could play it but don't because it sounds so awful. And there is plenty of music more difficult than that. Take a look at Godowsky's paraphrases on the Chopin studies for example, not to mention works like the Ligeti Etudes or the music of Kaikhosru Sorabji.
And no offense, but you talk as if you are the most supremely gift pianist on the planet;
the Rev. in octaves is a feat of singular technical complexity, which I don't advise ANYONE, even a top, world-class pianist, of attempting to duplicate
It comes across a rather arrogant.
-
It comes across a rather arrogant.
And it just sounds horrendous.
Some may claim that my distaste for this rendition is born out of jealousy for the ability to play it this way. OK. I WOULD like to be able to play it in octaves like this...
But, if I did have the skill or the willingness to acquire the skill do so, I would hope it would be tempered with the presence of mind to realize just how much the piece is butchered in the process, and never stick it out as some singular achievement that sets me apart from other pianists.
Remember the FedEx speed talker? How many people would want to hear that guy talk as fast and as loud as possible as he recited Walt Whitman?
-
@octave_revolutionary,
Aren't you over-selling the difficulty of the Revolutionary Etude in octaves a bit? I'm sure there are many pianists who could play it but don't because it sounds so awful. And there is plenty of music more difficult than that. Take a look at Godowsky's paraphrases on the Chopin studies for example, not to mention works like the Ligeti Etudes or the music of Kaikhosru Sorabji.
And no offense, but you talk as if you are the most supremely gift pianist on the planet;
It comes across a rather arrogant.
No, you are mistaken- I assure you that the Godowsky paraphrases and Ligeti studies are not more difficult than this- maybe musically more complex, yes, no doubt! but there is a reason I warn against trying this at home:
I simply don't want to be minimally responsible or guilty in any way for anyone ruining his/her hands by trying something similar. It is a well-known fact that Gary Graffman severely injured his hands by, in his own words, roughly quoted, playing octaves with an inadequate fingering, and Leon Fleisher suffered a similar fate, although I don't know to what extent it had to do with improper practice. And these are the two cases that come to mind immediately; I've heard that there are many more. Please don't make a trifle of this- this is not something to be taken lightly. I've had absolute genius colleagues in music school whom I have subsequently either never heard of since I graduated, or at least hardly have heard anything about them. And THESE are precisely what I had been referring to as "world-class" musicians. I just don't think anyone who is in that position, and that might be tempted to make a mark on the musical world, should do it by trying to copy me, or if he does, he should know that there are serious risks involved. The most technically gifted pianists aren't always the greatest musicians, and vice-versa. I risked a whole lot in performing these stunts, and I don't regret it a bit. I'm not arrogant, I'm just defending my position. It's unlikely that an already famous pianist would ever even attempt to do this, anyway- but then, if he were really famous, he wouldn't have to.
And by the way....
yes, that's me playing, believe it or not, in the year 2004...... I just never posted that until now!
-
If you want to try and convince us of your beauty in playing, you may want to take this video down...
I found that... absolutely disgusting, to do that to a piano... and why you would edit the speed of your playing... I don't know... but it looks suspect.
@perfect_pitch Don't worry, the piano survived ;) ;)
And what makes you think that I sped up this video?! To be sincere, I'm actually quite flattered that someone would think that, as it (the video) is basically a publicity stunt; but I can assure you that it isn't sped up!! In fact, if you're REALLY curious, if I ever come to your country to perform (wherever you live), I'll let you know, just so that I can prove to you that this is NOT a fake! :D
Regards,
Octave
-
Please don't bullshit me. What gave it away was the way you practically teleported off the piano stool at the end. It's clearly sped up, so please don't try and pretend it isn't.
if I ever come to your country to perform (wherever you live), I'll let you know, just so that I can prove to you that this is NOT a fake!
You ever play like that on my grand piano - I'll beat you with a baseball bat. I don't care if the piano survived. Mel Gibsons character survived the beating he took in the movie 'Payback' but the end result wasn't pretty.
-
Please don't bullshit me. What gave it away was the way you practically teleported off the piano stool at the end. It's clearly sped up, so please don't try and pretend it isn't.
HaHaHaHa, ;D alright, I sped up the last frames, starting with the last note of the piece, for SHEER VISUAL EFFECT; the rest of the video is in real time!!!! But I'm glad you think it's sped up, that's just what I wanted people to think.
Cheers, Octave
-
@adodd81802 Regarding your question about Gaspard, I think it's gotten a bad rap from pianists the world over mainly for its awkward passages involving juxtaposition of the hands in certain passages, leaps while crossing one hand over the other, and for prerequisites such as extremely fine and ethereal tonal shading and aural craftsmanship required to pull it off convicingly. I've never played it myself- but having browsed through it a few times in the past, it seems like a piece of cake to me- can't understand why it's considered to be so difficult - might be a question of endurance more than speed, idk.
...
...
...
WHAT???
Bruh after reading that I'm telling you right now that you can't play Gaspard.
-
@octave_revolutionary
I think for your next project you should play the aria from Bach's Goldberg Variations in octaves in 60 seconds.
-
HaHaHaHa, ;D alright, I sped up the last frames, starting with the last note of the piece, for SHEER VISUAL EFFECT; the rest of the video is in real time!!!! But I'm glad you think it's sped up, that's just what I wanted people to think.
Cheers, Octave
Okay - no offense, but the fact that you even sped up a SINGLE FRAME in that video makes me suspect. Seriously... given that - I don't think that I can believe anything you post.
Also, so far you haven't showed us a single piece of VISUAL evidence that you can play anything musical. Any chance of seeing you play the piano without pounding the sh*t out of it?
-
I must say, I'm a little skeptical too. Not just because we can't see you in that Schubert recording but because the sound quality is so much better than in all you other videos.
I don't think anybody would deny that you have some serious chops but honestly, I think you'll get more respect by acknowledging your limitations.
-
At the 16 second mark - there are bass notes pounding, yet no arm movement.
ps… sounds great… no really …..
-
HaHaHaHa, ;D alright, I sped up the last frames, starting with the last note of the piece, for SHEER VISUAL EFFECT; the rest of the video is in real time!!!! But I'm glad you think it's sped up, that's just what I wanted people to think.
Cheers, Octave
If you DID speed up the last few frames 'for visual effect', then that tells me two things...
1. You are an idiot for doing something to call your 'Herculean effort' into question.
2. You are obsessed with the APPEARANCE of things as opposed to the reality.
Regardless, sped up or not, there is not one scintilla of musical expression that I have been exposed to in any of your videos.
I would be more impressed by someone playing expressively and beautifully from Anna Magdalena than this kind of twisted 'piano for sport' used oats.
-
No doubt it is difficult, but nobody who could get me to playing 10/12 like this because it is pretty ugly compared to the original.
Post something that requires skill and play it musically. That is alot more impressive to me.
-
I don't want it to seem like I'm being too critical of @octave_revolutionary but I thought for contrast I would post here a video of another Chopin study in octaves. Personally I think if you are going to mess with the Chopin etudes, this is that way to do it;
-
I wouldn't quite say 'mess' the chopin Etudes, Godowsky was talented, and had some incredible ideas and challenges for the Chopin etudes.
-
I wouldn't quite say 'mess' the chopin Etudes, Godowsky was talented, and had some incredible ideas and challenges for the Chopin etudes.
I actually meant 'mess with' as in 'play around with'. I actually love Godowsky's music (including his Chopin paraphrases) and in particular his Java Suite
-
Dear God. You're like the Chris Brown of pianos; no musical talent and just beats the sh*t out of everything.
-
You're like the Chris Brown of pianos; no musical talent and just beats the sh*t out of everything.
DAMNIT, that made me laugh my arse off. Almost as much as this.
(https://www.tntmagazine.com/media/News/chrisbrowntweet.jpg)
-
Dear God. You're like the Chris Brown of pianos; no musical talent and just beats the sh*t out of everything.
Hahahah, ;D ;D ;D Hey, don't be so hard on me- you're scaring away all the ladies!!!! :D ;D
-
Oh, why?? >:( I hate this kind of octave pecking bombastic pianoplaying. Is it an improvement of Chopin´s etudes? -No!! Its just silly and really bad taste. No wonder people prefer Richard Clayderman
-
Hahahah, ;D ;D ;D Hey, don't be so hard on me- you're scaring away all the ladies!!!! :D ;D
Show us something that is meticulously played with intricacy and feeling, and your stocks will definitely rise...
-
The number of posts which dislike this video is staggering. It reminds me of reading Godowsky's critics reviews.
Sure, in this arrangement I think the balance is off between the hands, and I prefer the original, but from a purely technical standpoint I was impressed.
To the OP: Have you considered recording Erlkonig or something else that does contain a lot of octaves? It might be better received.
-
The number of posts which dislike this video is staggering. It reminds me of reading Godowsky's critics reviews.
Sure, in this arrangement I think the balance is off between the hands, and I prefer the original, but from a purely technical standpoint I was impressed.
To the OP: Have you considered recording Erlkonig or something else that does contain a lot of octaves? It might be better received.
The guy shows up here flaunting his technique, admits that he sped up the video in one instance in which it was obvious, bellyaches about nobody inviting him to play anywhere, treats piano as a sport in which the goal is to go as fast as possible, murders the composer's intent in the process, and ignores the thousands of EXCELLENT works from the repertoire that COULD showcase his purported skills.
To me it is not just a matter of preferring the original to his rendition because there is an imbalance in his playing. It is the utter disregard for the music that has aroused my hatred for his renditions. It is distasteful, impudent, rude and an offense to the very concept of music.
The guy actually commented on Valentina L's performance of the Chopin Etude 10, #2 that HE CAN PLAY IT IN UNDER A MINUTE. I did not know that Longines was the official stopwatch of the Chopin Competition.
-
The guy actually commented on Valentina L's performance of the Chopin Etude 10, #2 that HE CAN PLAY IT IN UNDER A MINUTE.
Okay - that right there is just pathetic. Using someone elses videos to advertise your own?
Have you no shame 'octaves'???
-
The guy actually commented on Valentina L's performance of the Chopin Etude 10, #2 that HE CAN PLAY IT IN UNDER A MINUTE.
Yay. That's just what we needed. Speed contests and comment wars about who's faster. It's not surprising then that people cheat and leave out notes like Lisitsa. Or alter the video to speed it up.
What most people don't seem to realize is that you can't even compare speed in this way because we're all playing on very different pianos. There's a world of difference between playing on a light touch piano (and even use a pedal that makes it lighter still) and an elephant.
And then there's often lack of clarity or they add reverb to make it more blurry so you can't even hear the individual notes - which creates the acoustic illusion of speed. Try it for yourself. Record yourself playing some really hard piece in an insane speed but ignore precision and muddle as much as you want. Then add reverb to the recording until all the blemishes and inaccuracies are blurred out.
It's like artificially placing the proverbial closed door that makes anyone on the other side sound amazing, between yourself and the audience.
-
It's not surprising then that people cheat and leave out notes like Lisitsa.
EXCUSE ME??? I've listened to a great many of her performances, and I've yet to hear her miss out any notes, thank you very much.
Proof?
-
EXCUSE ME??? I've listened to a great many of her performances, and I've yet to hear her miss out any notes, thank you very much.
Proof?
Just take a look at her chromatic etude. For what seems like the majority of the time, she only plays the bottom note of the right hand chords.
-
(https://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/media/6925c8e1145666365660932525_700wa_0.gif)
-
Just take a look at her chromatic etude. For what seems like the majority of the time, she only plays the bottom note of the right hand chords.
Okay... After having seen the clip again (last time seeing it being several years ago), I'll admit that I think 'majority' is wrong, but there are a number of missing notes. Quite a few times, her 2nd finger seems to hover in the air, strangely enough.
-
Okay... After having seen the clip again (last time seeing it being several years ago), I'll admit that I think 'majority' is wrong, but there are a number of missing notes. Quite a few times, her 2nd finger seems to hover in the air, strangely enough.
Well I didn't count it but it's definitely not just a few. I wanted to be sure before accusing her of cheating so I watched it at half-speed and was pretty shocked at how shamelessly she leaves out notes. And I've seen others do worse than that even. I don't trust any of Paul Barton's performances.
It's awful really because aspiring pianists see these things and feel pressure to measure up to a standard that doesn't even exist.
-
Yay. That's just what we needed. Speed contests and comment wars about who's faster. It's not surprising then that people cheat and leave out notes like Lisitsa. Or alter the video to speed it up.
What most people don't seem to realize is that you can't even compare speed in this way because we're all playing on very different pianos. There's a world of difference between playing on a light touch piano (and even use a pedal that makes it lighter still) and an elephant.
And then there's often lack of clarity or they add reverb to make it more blurry so you can't even hear the individual notes - which creates the acoustic illusion of speed. Try it for yourself. Record yourself playing some really hard piece in an insane speed but ignore precision and muddle as much as you want. Then add reverb to the recording until all the blemishes and inaccuracies are blurred out.
It's like artificially placing the proverbial closed door that makes anyone on the other side sound amazing, between yourself and the audience.
The una corda pedal will lighten up the action on an upright (it is not really a UNA corda pedal on an upright as much as it is a 'let's take about 1/8" out of the key action" pedal). However, on a grand, the una corda shifts the entire keyboard while doing nothing to lighten up the action. I am not sure if the damper pedal on either piano makes any significant difference on the action. It could, in theory, because the key stroke is no longer needed to power the dampers lifting.
-
The una corda pedal will lighten up the action on an upright (it is not really a UNA corda pedal on an upright as much as it is a 'let's take about 1/8" out of the key action" pedal). However, on a grand, the una corda shifts the entire keyboard while doing nothing to lighten up the action.
Exactly. But some grand pianos also have what the upright has as its left pedal for the explicit purpose of making the action lighter so that fast pieces can be played more easily. I believe Fazioli have at least one model with that.
Also just the action itself is more precise on a good concert grand. In particular the escapement is often non-existent on lower quality pianos. I'm often surprised at how people underestimate the difference this makes - especially with pieces like La Campanella.
-
For those of you that enjoyed listening to my version of Chopin's 'Revolutionary' Etude (and for those who believe that the left hand shouldn't play it in octaves ;)), here's another version that you might like, too:
Personally, I'm not really crazy about this version; - but now that I also mentioned Chopin's Op.10,#2 in my first post of this thread, here's a jazzed-up arrangement of it by that same guy:
Now I don't care what anybody says- that version of Op. 10,#2 is simply BRILLIANT :o :o :D